A fundamental principle that should have been made explicitly clear a long time ago. I read it somehwere, probably on Rick's site.

If you lived in a world where you could choose what functions dominated, what would they be? The four choices are:

1.
2.
3.
4.

An alternative question would be; what functions do you find - from the list - most valueless?:

1.
2.
3.
4.

The likelihood is, you chose values from a corresponding quadra - subdued and dominant elements. I'm pretty sure you're clever enough to recognise the idea behind this.

2. I'd live in a Delta world if I had the choice. :Te: :Ne: :Si: :Fi: . Beta the least I'd say :Se: :Fe: :Ni: :Ti: . In Delta INFjs annoy me sometimes but for the most part I know they mean well and I really like the rest of Delta a lot. Things just get done under a Delta influence and while it might be a little less fun than an Alpha world I'd rather have it in their control. Slow and steady really does win the race.

3. Based on that, Alpha or Delta, dee.

4. The problem is that you have to have an accurate understanding of each of these IM Elements in order to have valid results. For most people (especially people who don't know their type or at least their quadra values), this is not the case.

5. Joy, people don't know their type because they don't know their quadra values. The only way they are going to know their type is if they know what quadra values they value. This helps them to do that.

6. The problem is that the only way this could offer any type of help in determining one's quadra is if a person totally understands the exact nature of each IM Element and their functional presentations but, for whatever reason, doesn't happen to know which quadras value which IM Elements. This scenario is extremely unlikely.

7. How is that any more improbable than one finding their type via any other method?

8. I like everything...straight up my ass oh baby.

9. Originally Posted by Ezra
How is that any more improbable than one finding their type via any other method?
I cannot understand how you cannot understand that you can't say you relate to an IM Element unless you understand what that IM Element even is.

Look... I didn't mean to be so harsh towards your test, and I probably wouldn't have if it had not been the dee's quadra test thread and, more specifically, this post:

Originally Posted by Ezra
The first time I did it, I got:

Alpha 7
Beta 5
Gamma 5
Delta 4

And I decided it wasn't reflective of my quadra. I am not Alpha. And the second time:

Alpha 7
Beta 5
Gamma 8
Delta 4

Gamma. How interesting. I'm going to do a lot more research into LIE, because I am seriously considering it as a potential type.
These results are totally invalid because the test in totally useless, and your response lends serious doubts to your ability to type yourself.

Why is it so difficult to understand that you cannot accurately answer the question "Which do you prefer, ENTps or ESTps?" unless you understand what ENTps and ESTps even are???

10. Originally Posted by Joy
Why is it so difficult to understand that you cannot accurately answer the question "Which do you prefer, ENTps or ESTps?" unless you understand what ENTps and ESTps even are???
B/c you do?

11. I do what?

12. The problems I have with it are:

a) It's self-evident.

b) It's a little bit more complicated in that someone who is an F type is good at and probably likes both Fi and Fe, so a better way to think about it is to look at each set and figure out which of the two you prefer over the other. So I like Fi and Fe, but I prefer Fi over Fe. I like Te and don't like Ti so your thing works better for weaker functions.

c) The problem in all typings is every bigger with this one- the best tests make it so that you aren't completely aware of where the test is leading. People who have already decided they are one particular type can find a way to make themselves that type if they want to badly enough regardless of whether they are that type. So if I really thought INFps were cool (which I do) and I wanted to be one (which would be cool but I'm not one) I could work hard to find a way to rationalize that I like Fe better than Fi. I would be fooling myself but I could do it if I wanted to. I would have a harder type convincing myself that I like Ti, but I bet I could find a way. Hmmm. I'm not terribly logical and I appreciate when logical issues are all taken care of and don't come up for me to deal with, so it must be something I'm looking for in a dual and must be in my superego block. There. I like doing crossword puzzles and other things like that and I might be able to convince myself that it shows Ti preference too. So your approach is right but people will twist it around to suit where they want it to go. This is the biggest problem with Socionics IMO. We have the ability and tendency to see what we want to see. The biggest challenge in Socionics IMO is to be completely open-minded and not allow preconceived notions about who we are or stereotypes about particular Socionics types to cloud our perception.

13. He is saying that you don't understand what ESTp or ENTp is, which is a compltely irrelevant point in regards to your own point.

Why are you ignoring her point just to insult her knowledge about socionics and the like? This isn't really a question because I already know why.

14. Most people here also have a completely boggled notion of what it means to "prefer" a function as well, so good luck.

15. Originally Posted by Khamelion
This isn't really a question because I already know why.
Indeed.

It's equivilant to "Oh yeah?! Well you're a big fat idiot! So there!"

16. Originally Posted by Gilly
Most people here also have a completely boggled notion of what it means to "prefer" a function as well, so good luck.
That is definitely true

17. Originally Posted by Gilly
Most people here also have a completely boggled notion of what it means to "prefer" a function as well, so good luck.
We're talking about that in "My Type" at the moment.

18. Hard to say what I value most, so in order from least valued to most...I guess...

Sort of in order, except the top four...*shrug*

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