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Thread: Deriving pleasure from strong functions

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    Default Deriving pleasure from strong functions

    I notice that even when people are fighting and whatever negative things come that way, I feel a sense of pleasure in logical argument. It tickles me.

    I also noticed that when talking to ISFjs or ESFps, if I show genuine affectation (is that a word?) they seem to get what seems to me as perverse pleasure from seeing my emotions affected on a deep level, which I think because I am showing negative emotion. It occured to me that I might appear to be a sick bastard as well when I am gleefully smiling at some logical death match, right or wrong.

    An observation.

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    I personally believe that society should not expect a person to perform a job to which their ego functions are ill-suited. It's in the best interest of the individual's personal experience, and in the interest of the need for quality work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    I personally believe that society should not expect a person to perform a job to which their ego functions are ill-suited. It's in the best interest of the individual's personal experience, and in the interest of the need for quality work.
    I do agree that it would be better if we could all actualize our potentials and work in areas that are naturally suited to us, or that we are passionate about, or that really help us become better people. And I know this is not how things are working now... the system seems to want to further economic potential more than human potential... But I don't think that what you suggest is the answer. That would be a dangerous road to start on... by not expecting certain people to perform certain jobs due to their personality type... that can lead to an over-arching system that tells people what jobs they can and can't do or try because of what a theory of personality says their type is. That is a limitation of human freedom and could lead to further suppression of human potential (as opposed to further actualization of it). IMO. I seem to be in a serious mood today, and I think this is in a more serious tone than your post was in. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    It occured to me that I might appear to be a sick bastard as well when I am gleefully smiling at some logical death match, right or wrong.
    I just rather wish the debates would be resolved, I mean if understanding is the goal... but I suppose things need not always be resolved and can be more fun when they never are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    I personally believe that society should not expect a person to perform a job to which their ego functions are ill-suited. It's in the best interest of the individual's personal experience, and in the interest of the need for quality work.
    Yeah, I don't know why it was a suprise for me that one should feel pleasure instead of neutral obliviousness.

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    I don't really understand how these comments logically follow on from each other.

    Ms. Kensington makes an observation about her taking pleasure in logical arguments due to (what I assume is) her Te or TI, then tcaudilllg starts talking about how society should not force those who are weak in an area to do work concerning said area.

    Where's the connection?

    On deriving pleasure from strong functions, I'd say I enjoy sitting down and reading through something patiently, and whether or not this is related to function, a) it seems like it is and b) it is fun anyway. I also enjoy working out group dynamics in social situations just for the fun of it, and thinking 'if he thinks he has power over me, he is so wrong'. This could be a manifestation of Se.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    The point is this: jobs that require a dominant type to eschew meaningful debate are a waste of dominant talent. If Ms. Kensington likes debate, then she should have a vocation that allows her to debate as a means of performing her job.

    That would be a dangerous road to start on... by not expecting certain people to perform certain jobs due to their personality type... that can lead to an over-arching system that tells people what jobs they can and can't do or try because of what a theory of personality says their type is. That is a limitation of human freedom and could lead to further suppression of human potential (as opposed to further actualization of it). IMO. I seem to be in a serious mood today, and I think this is in a more serious tone than your post was in. :-)
    Yes it could if we half-assed it... or it could not.

    Besides, there is a lot of vocational dictation already in the workforce. Huge amounts of students at the community college I attend are studying nursing, which in the majority of cases is almost certain is something suggested. Most of them don't think much about it, I don't think. They just want a job that is in demand and will pay the bills. Most have kids, or little confidence in themselves, and are merely being sold the option of "nursing" by social service workers.

    Only a handful of people really have an idea about how to be successful outside of "the flow." Obviously the independence of these people should be respected, or else we really will face a suppression of actualized potential. I would explicitly recognize their role in society (that of the opinion leader) and give them socionics as ONE OF MANY means by which to coordinate efforts between competing interests. The opinion leaders run the world anyhow; we're only giving them better tools by which to run it, one of which is type.

    Why not think of it this way: these days when you apply for a job, you usually have to take the Big Five test. This test is a factor in whether or not you are hired for the position you are seeking. MBTI is also in use by many companies. Which would you prefer as the basis for people's hiring of you: Big Five and MBTI, or socionics?

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    Default Re: Deriving pleasure from strong functions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I notice that even when people are fighting and whatever negative things come that way, I feel a sense of pleasure in logical argument. It tickles me.

    I also noticed that when talking to ISFjs or ESFps, if I show genuine affectation (is that a word?) they seem to get what seems to me as perverse pleasure from seeing my emotions affected on a deep level, which I think because I am showing negative emotion. It occured to me that I might appear to be a sick bastard as well when I am gleefully smiling at some logical death match, right or wrong.

    An observation.
    i love this. ms. k, you are so so intj.

    i get this whenever i see an element of information presented in a strong way. like a good Se power move is awesome to watch. or a great Ne flight of ideas a la connect the dots, great to watch. or some Fe emotional manipulation is also a sight to behold. or a pesky miniscule Fi evaluation done publically. i guess my point is when it comes from a person's lead function it's usually done so well that it's quite entertaining to watch!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deriving pleasure from strong functions

    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    i guess my point is when it comes from a person's lead function it's usually done so well that it's quite entertaining to watch!
    Very good point.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    I don't really understand how these comments logically follow on from each other.

    Ms. Kensington makes an observation about her taking pleasure in logical arguments due to (what I assume is) her Te or TI, then tcaudilllg starts talking about how society should not force those who are weak in an area to do work concerning said area.

    Where's the connection?

    On deriving pleasure from strong functions, I'd say I enjoy sitting down and reading through something patiently, and whether or not this is related to function, a) it seems like it is and b) it is fun anyway. I also enjoy working out group dynamics in social situations just for the fun of it, and thinking 'if he thinks he has power over me, he is so wrong'. This could be a manifestation of Se.
    I think the reason I followed up Ms. Kensington's post was because I took it as an initiative for progress; but in retrospect, she was just making an idle point.

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    i also see there was a jump to tcaud's response. If you want to take it as a spur to a discussion about progress, so be it; that is the point of a discussion board though some (not here) use it to imo "idly" record their own thoughts. I do hope to contribute to others and was able to use the responses here.

    ...

    If one is to undergo the exciting process of actualizing their potential it makes all the frickin sense in the world that it should feel good. And, in a socionics context it is probably better for the society as a whole since you're plagued with having a limited number of pieces with which to play/have.

    Also I did not intend for this to logically follow from previous comments, which I tried to indicate by the three dots there *points*

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