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Thread: Why do things fall up instead of down?

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    Default Why do things fall up instead of down?

    Has anyone trully wondered _why_ that happens? Or more precisely, has anyone trully wondered _why_ gravity works the way it does? Why does 1+1=2? Why does every cause have an effect? Isn't it bizzarre how the rules seem to just _be_ without any particular reason for them being?

    Just a thought.

    And no, I have not consumed any sort of intoxicant.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    I have thought about this. And I'm not going to trust popular opinion or "proof" just because they have always supported the same thing. I say we can't be sure of anything, and there is the chance that if you count together two and two, even though it has been four all the times so far, the next time it just might be three.
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    Default Re: Why do things fall up instead of down?

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Has anyone trully wondered _why_ that happens? Or more precisely, has anyone trully wondered _why_ gravity works the way it does? Why does 1+1=2? Why does every cause have an effect? Isn't it bizzarre how the rules seem to just _be_ without any particular reason for them being?

    Just a thought.

    And no, I have not consumed any sort of intoxicant.
    Your question is unanswerable because it question unattainable knowledge, unless you only want to gain superficial knowledge about matter, antimatter, particle theory and the likes, but i guess you already have that knowledge or that answering these questions would only set a more precise ground for asking your real questions: "How was the world created?" along with "Why does particles exists?" and the likes, and we both know these are unaswerable questions, unless you accept scientism's arguments as valid arguments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord
    I have thought about this. And I'm not going to trust popular opinion or "proof" just because they have always supported the same thing. I say we can't be sure of anything, and there is the chance that if you count together two and two, even though it has been four all the times so far, the next time it just might be three.
    Your mistake on this one is to consider theory before practice.

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    "Your question is unanswerable because it question unattainable knowledge, unless you only want to gain superficial knowledge about matter, antimatter, particle theory and the likes, but i guess you already have that knowledge or that answering these questions would only set a more precise ground for asking your real questions: "How was the world created?" along with "Why does particles exists?" and the likes, and we both know these are unaswerable questions, unless you accept scientism's arguments as valid arguments."

    I know it's unaswerable, I just felt like waxing philisophically.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Has anyone trully wondered _why_ that happens? Or more precisely, has anyone trully wondered _why_ gravity works the way it does? Why does 1+1=2? Why does every cause have an effect? Isn't it bizzarre how the rules seem to just _be_ without any particular reason for them being?

    Just a thought.

    And no, I have not consumed any sort of intoxicant.
    In theory repulsive gravity is possible... In Newton's framework of gravity the strength of attraction depends on two things the mass of the two objects and the distance between them. But according to general relativity it is not only mass but also energy and pressure. Positive pressure makes a positive contribution to gravity, but there are situations in which the pressure can be negative. Positive pressure contributes to ordinary attractive gravity and negative pressure contributes to repulsive gravity. There is always a reason behind everthing that might seem bizzarre to you....

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    ". But according to general relativity it is not only mass but also energy and pressure."

    I thought energy and mass were the same thing.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    "Your question is unanswerable because it question unattainable knowledge, unless you only want to gain superficial knowledge about matter, antimatter, particle theory and the likes, but i guess you already have that knowledge or that answering these questions would only set a more precise ground for asking your real questions: "How was the world created?" along with "Why does particles exists?" and the likes, and we both know these are unaswerable questions, unless you accept scientism's arguments as valid arguments."

    I know it's unaswerable, I just felt like waxing philisophically.
    Oh, like, say, "It's because of God" or "It's because the absence of matter excerces pressure on itself and this creates energy"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by detail
    Your mistake on this one is to consider theory before practice.
    In practice, I will trust that 2+2=4. In practice, I will trust that we will always fall down while on a planet, and that the sun will rise tomorrow, and that a word has approximately the same meaning for all who speak the same language. I will not, however, rule out the other possibilities. I will never accept that one result is the only one possible outcome of anything.
    Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.

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    This is as bizarre as human copulation.

    These kinds of questions are fun. They test your knowledge and help you understand your limitations. One of my favorite characters from the show "Animaniacs" would annoy people by constantly asking "why?" over and over. As the question became more and more difficult to answer, the victim would freak out and eventually shout at her. It was pretty funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord
    I will never accept that one result is the only one possible outcome of anything.
    Well sometimes, it is.

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    "Well sometimes, it is."

    Perhaps, but it's impossible to show that to be true.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    "Well sometimes, it is."

    Perhaps, but it's impossible to show that to be true.
    You give too much credit to the absolute. If reality terms were meant to define absolute things, they would be useless and since we don't need useless things, we accept to speak of truth as relative to the reality we "seem" to live in. Ironically, not doing so is a waste of a time that is absolute, unless you feel like dreaming about possibilities and all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by detail
    If reality terms were meant to define absolute things, they would be useless and since we don't need useless things, we accept to speak of truth as relative to the reality we "seem" to live in. Ironically, not doing so is a waste of a time that is absolute, unless you feel like dreaming about possibilities and all.
    I do, thank you very much :wink: . If what you say above is true, then, ironically, reality is useless. In practice, we can use those terms, but since this thread is about exactly the topic of the inability to be sure of anything, we are able to discuss it here.
    Quote Originally Posted by detail
    Well sometimes, it is.
    Can you be sure?
    Besides:
    C'est une detail.
    Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.

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    "You give too much credit to the absolute."

    I think it's the other way around and you've just exegised too much to see that.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord
    Quote Originally Posted by detail
    If reality terms were meant to define absolute things, they would be useless and since we don't need useless things, we accept to speak of truth as relative to the reality we "seem" to live in. Ironically, not doing so is a waste of a time that is absolute, unless you feel like dreaming about possibilities and all.
    I do, thank you very much :wink: . If what you say above is true, then, ironically, reality is useless. In practice, we can use those terms, but since this thread is about exactly the topic of the inability to be sure of anything, we are able to discuss it here.
    Yeah while we agree on my point, i have to agree on yours that my place isn't in this thread right now since i don't feel like dreaming about logical systems that fails to fit with reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord
    Quote Originally Posted by detail
    Well sometimes, it is.
    Can you be sure?
    It's only a ramification of my point. Anyways:


    Here's one ----> o
    Here's another one ---> o

    How many of them are there? I say there are 2, if there is another one, 1+1=2 doesn't become false, but it simply means this situation was actually 1+1+1=3.

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    "....exegised...."

    I just realized that isn't a word, but I'd like to clarify my meaning by the statement of said non-word that it is to have performed in the past an exegesis.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    "You give too much credit to the absolute."

    I think it's the other way around and you've just exegised too much to see that.
    What other way around?

    You give too much credit to reality?
    I give too much credit to the absolute?
    I give to much credit to reality?

    I can see all of these as part of a point.

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    "I give too much credit to the absolute? "

    That one; I proposed a relative explanation and you attempted to rebutt it by saying I give too much credit to reality.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    "I give too much credit to the absolute? "

    That one; I proposed a relative explanation and you attempted to rebutt it by saying I give too much credit to reality.
    I said you give too much credit to the absolute.

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    "I said you give too much credit to the absolute."

    Erm, yeah.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    I go take a nap for a few hours and come back to find this??!!

    Some things I just refuse to wrap my brain around.
    <--- Me pouring out all my love on you!

    Some days its just not worth chewing through the restraints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    "I give too much credit to the absolute? "

    That one; I proposed a relative explanation and you attempted to rebutt it by saying I give too much credit to the absolute.

    I can't find how it makes me give too much credit to the absolute. Do you mean that the fact that i defined my point with concepts meant that i highly value absolute things, such as concepts?


    Anyway, my point is that the concept of reality or any concept, to be valid, must not target an absolute/ideal that can't even exist (or be proven). By mentioning "reality", all we can mean if we're honest is that it concerns the apparent world apparent empiric data gives us information about, whose confines are the apparent laws who "governs" it. We only fool ourselves if we go and try to fool "reality" by saying things like "Maybe reality is not how it seems to be." because this naively attacks a concept that we remake (Strawman fallacy, or sometimes someone just doesn't firgure that out and badly interprets such seemingly arbitrary concepts. It happens often with the concept of freedom, with some people claiming "I can't do everything i want so i'm not free".) in such a way that it's inapplicable, thus easily criticizable.


    Now since this thread wasn't for logic but more for dreaming and fun and stuff, i understand very well how we still can theorize about the absolute with no regards to pragmatism, i only wanted to clarify my point because the discution was already started. And since i don't know if your real opinion reflects a bias towards the absolute like our friend Parmenides (While i'm convinced you wouldn't try Zeno's arrow paradoxe. ) or not, i had a lack of information to attribute this bias to you without being sure beforehand so of course it only meant that in this situation it's the case. I assume it can be for the sake of this fantasy thread.

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    Default Re: Why do things fall up instead of down?

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Has anyone trully wondered _why_ that happens? Or more precisely, has anyone trully wondered _why_ gravity works the way it does? Why does 1+1=2? Why does every cause have an effect? Isn't it bizzarre how the rules seem to just _be_ without any particular reason for them being?
    I was thinking about this a few weeks ago. It's pretty screwed up, isn't it?
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Default Re: Why do things fall up instead of down?

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Has anyone trully wondered _why_ that happens? Or more precisely, has anyone trully wondered _why_ gravity works the way it does? Why does 1+1=2? Why does every cause have an effect? Isn't it bizzarre how the rules seem to just _be_ without any particular reason for them being?

    Just a thought.

    And no, I have not consumed any sort of intoxicant.
    For the same reason that a person can not survive at the bottom of the ocean without being crushed.

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    Er, you don't get the question.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Er, you don't get the question.
    I get the question, I just do not understand why it is being asked ... it seems pointless.

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    ...because you don't get the question.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    ...because you don't get the question.
    No, I get the question, I just think the answer is not worthy of having such complex inquiry.

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    fdfds

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    I'm not telling...
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    What's the answer?
    I am not telling, but I will give you a hint ... one of the questions involved elementary algebra ...

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    mystic, what sort of answer do you think would be satisfying?

    not being a smartarse, just wondering myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    mystic, what sort of answer do you think would be satisfying?

    not being a smartarse, just wondering myself.
    While i'm not saying it's his case, this kind of questions sometimes wake a kind of symbolic deep meaning in curious people, as they see in these more than a potential answer. I was like that when i was younger.

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    "mystic, what sort of answer do you think would be satisfying? "

    I wasn't expecting an answer.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    I think MysticSonic made this post meerly as an excuse to exercise , which is something that I do sometimes myself on occasion. Asking questions you already know the answer to just to ask questions ...

    Now I use , but am not based; so, it makes sense that I or someone else would think that asking such questions are an odd thing when for me when literally does much better when there is a need to filter such inquiries.

    Anyhow, that is the answer if anyone is curious ...

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    Detail was right; asking such questions makes one feel at awe; by recognizing the lack of meaning to certain things they seem to become so much more meaningful, at least in my case. Odd, isn't it?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Detail was right; asking such questions makes one feel at awe; by recognizing the lack of meaning to certain things they seem to become so much more meaningful, at least in my case. Odd, isn't it?
    I have an irrationnal tendency to rationalize these feelings, and everything basically, in such a way that they're meaningless. I figure that realistically, i can't make the equation follow through by having an irrationnal tendency to rationnalize the irrationnal tendency i spoke of in my first sentence. I could either keep it, or choose to come back, but not to dig it further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Detail was right; asking such questions makes one feel at awe; by recognizing the lack of meaning to certain things they seem to become so much more meaningful, at least in my case. Odd, isn't it?
    all

    i wasn't asking why he was making this post. But, what would be satisfying in response to the question. ie, what are you looking for

    and the answer is, to feel awe, to engage in a process?

    i am reminded of wittgenstein, who spoke of the mystical and the feeling of awe at the world.

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    Now, can you conceive a world with different laws?
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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