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Thread: Interaction of Functions in Duality

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    Default Interaction of Functions in Duality

    (This isn't meant to be a comprehensive guide or anything, more like an idea to build on.)

    The thing that hooks duals in the beginning of the relationship is the way partners use their 2nd function to fulfill the other's 6th function. Having our 6th function fulfilled and our 2nd function appreciated so much leads to a feeling of connectedness, like we've found exactly what we need.

    While the 2nd/6th functions give the partnership energy, the 1st/5th functions give the partnership stability. We do not have a strong internal source of our 5th function nor our 6th function, but the 6th function can still appear strong. This is because our 6th function is something we actively seek out and find external sources of. Our 5th functions, however, are less visible and at the same time, a more integral need. It's something that we cannot provide for ourselves but are totally lost without.

    We seek our 5th function from our duals in two ways: through use of our 1st function and use of our 3rd function. This connection between our 1st function and our 5th function is rather abstract and long term though. It's not as apparent as the connection between our 3rd function and 5th function.

    When we need our 5th function from our dual, we often get it through use of our 3rd function. Our 3rd function is our duals 7th function. There are two primary ways in which we receive our 5th function from our duals through the use of our 3rd function:

    • The first way is through our concern for addressing issues related to our belief that we need to use our 3rd functions to appease situations outside of our relationship with our duals. Our 3rd functions are conscious and we often feel that we are somehow obligated to meet others' demands related to our 3rd function. Our 3rd function is our duals' 7th function. Because our 7th function is generally one that we have limited patience for and see as subordinate to our 1st function, when we voice concerns related to our 3rd function, our dual responds by stating that the things we're concerned with don't really matter because concerns related to their 1st function are more important. By explaining this, they are fulfilling our 5th function with their 1st function. This is not always an easy process, however. We can be reluctant to let the concerns related to our 3rd function go, and because our 3rd function is our duals' 7th function, they are likely to get impatient with our insistence on somehow resolving related matters. We can be aggressive when it comes to problems related to our 7th function, so things can get rather tense.
    • The second way is related to concerns we have with our partner (as opposed to concerns with situations outside the relationship). When there is a problem with needing more of our 5th function from our duals, we may "act up" with our 3rd function because we don't know how else to express our need. Our duals are usually able to see through this pretty easily though, and because they can tell that we're uncomfortable with using our 3rd functions and would rather not if we don't have to, they're less likely to get impatient and argue the point as it relates to their 7th function and more likely to just respond with their 1st function right away. The reason we don't feel a need to hang on to using our 3rd function is because the matter is just between us and our dual, so we don't feel a need to appease outside people or situations.


    Our need for help related to matters of our 4th functions is much more difficult for us to express. Fortunately, our 4th function is our dual's 8th function, and the 8th function is one that's less irritating to deal with than the 7th function. When we are lacking something related to our 4th function, our duals are likely to just naturally provide what we cannot through the use of their 8th function. When it is something that they cannot do for us, they get us to do it through the use of their 2nd function. Because we respond well to our duals' use of their 2nd/our 6th function, we are likely to go along with it, relieved to avoid having to deal with our 4th function directly.

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    bump

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    Default Re: The interaction of functions in duality

    While the 2nd/6th functions give the partnership energy, the 1st/5th functions give the partnership stability.
    This makes sense. The 2nd/Creative function is what keeps it powered and acts as a mutual goal, while the 1st/primary function allows them to actually relate to each other. I will go through the 3rd and 7th function stuff later.
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    Well it's strange cause when I interact with an Semi Dual, involving the 1st and 5th function, it causes energizing.

    That real life experience contradicts with the theory above claiming the 2nd and 6th function are responsible for giving energy.

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    Very good post Joy..... I'm glad you bumbed it.
    Suomea

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    Your 652th function is your duals 234th function which means carry the 2 divided by x and subtract the 69 plus 1 round again to the nearest 11- and it creates a perfect building match of potential awesome power.

    In other words "They were made for you." That's all you're really saying, right?

    I notice the 'giving you exactly what you need' type of thing. I think (and I said this before) your dual isn't only good it's SURPRISINGLY good, they give you something you didn't really know you needed because your neurosis made you think you needed something completely different than what you actually needed, and when they gave you that thing you needed, and you go away from them again it can seem like this black hole of suck just appeared in your life. You try to think of why in the hell they worked for you, but they just fucking did, and it was amazing.

    Also when you're around them it's next to impossible to think about your weaknesses and hang-ups and vice-versa (which has to do with your 8th functions protecting each other's 4ths functions) 8th function is unconscious so your Dual won't be like "hey that's weak of you" they will protect your weakness naturally like an innocent child, wiping away all neurosis and fears and you will learn the ability 'Curaga' and 'Auto-life.' They won't SEE your ultimate weakness that's what makes them so goddamn great. Now it won't be 'true love' unless other non-socionic factors line up as well.

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    From Joy's post I really do think I have as a polr.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    Also when you're around them it's next to impossible to think about your weaknesses and hang-ups and vice-versa (which has to do with your 8th functions protecting each other's 4ths functions) 8th function is unconscious so your Dual won't be like "hey that's weak of you" they will protect your weakness naturally like an innocent child, wiping away all neurosis and fears and you will learn the ability 'Curaga' and 'Auto-life.' They won't SEE your ultimate weakness that's what makes them so goddamn great. Now it won't be 'true love' unless other non-socionic factors line up as well.
    If you have the setup 'Master Magic, W-Magic, MP Absorb + Master Summon, MP Turbo + Knights of the Round, Master Command, Enemy Skill, W-Summon, Slash-All, Mega All, HP Plus, Final Attack + Phoenix', what need do you have for a dual?

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    I agree with you Joy, especially on the first of the two points you listed.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    If you have the setup 'Master Magic, W-Magic, MP Absorb + Master Summon, MP Turbo + Knights of the Round, Master Command, Enemy Skill, W-Summon, Slash-All, Mega All, HP Plus, Final Attack + Phoenix', what need do you have for a dual?
    Easy. That's too much clutter. Your dual would help you realize that Final Fantasy 7 for the most part is a no-brainer game that doesn't challenge you that much ,and you can pretty much just beat on everything with a basic physical attack. Only thing that required SOME brain cells was the boss fight with Emerald and Ruby Weapon but that's to be expected since Final Fantasy is a very fun yet dumbed-down version of D&D.

    Your Dual simplifies things for you so beautifully, and naturally supports your strengths so it would be all "You silly dork! You can just use a physical attack!" and then smile at you playfully. If you have natural physical strength she won't create a neurosis with you and tell you to use a magic instead, because she can see your inner stats you know? Which is much more important than the materia you have equipped.

    The reverse is true too. If you are a natural magic user your Dual isn't going to expect you or want you to use melee like your Conflictor would. For the most part your enemies make fun of you for things beyond your control or power that's why they get under your skin so much.

    Booya.

    God I love Final Fantasy puns.

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    For real hard bosses though it requires EVERYBODY in your quadra to take down. A full four-team party with all the right balance.

    1. Warrior (main tank)
    2. Mage (main damage dealer, dual of the hybrid)
    3. Priest (main healer, dual of the warrior)
    4. Hybrid class

    Raid monsters take ALL 16 types, really, just like all of the world's evil needs to be vanquished by different types of good. But it got nerfed back to like 10 types because people whined that Blizzard hates casuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Well it's strange cause when I interact with an Semi Dual, involving the 1st and 5th function, it causes energizing.

    That real life experience contradicts with the theory above claiming the 2nd and 6th function are responsible for giving energy.
    The beginning stages of just about any relationship are exciting, and in semi-duality the part that would feel exciting may be the part that's most compatible. I think temperaments may have a lot to do with it, too. However, I think those who have experienced an illusionary relationship understand just how much more exciting the 2nd/6th function interaction is.

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    Thanks Logos, Suomea, and FDG. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    From Joy's post I really do think I have as a polr.

    Why's that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Well it's strange cause when I interact with an Semi Dual, involving the 1st and 5th function, it causes energizing.

    That real life experience contradicts with the theory above claiming the 2nd and 6th function are responsible for giving energy.
    The beginning stages of just about any relationship are exciting, and in semi-duality the part that would feel exciting may be the part that's most compatible. I think temperaments may have a lot to do with it, too. However, I think those who have experienced an illusionary relationship understand just how much more exciting the 2nd/6th function interaction is.
    huh, illusionary is draining, but that's because of the 7th function involved.

    And no, I certainly don't mean that the beginning stage is always energizing. Only when the 5th function is involved, and to a lesser degree, the 6th function.

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    Let's keep in mind that we're talking about Se here... (I think Se is going to energize just about any Ni type, regardless of functional arrangement.)

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    energizing doesn't come from a function, but from a function place in the A-model.

    do you actually know how the A-model works?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    From Joy's post I really do think I have as a polr.

    Didn't interest you?

    I got bored after the first bit. Whether it's to do with the fact that it's 1:33am, or to do with the fact that I could not give one flying shit, I don't know.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    energizing doesn't come from a function, but from a function place in the A-model.

    do you actually know how the A-model works?
    LOL

    Okay, looks like it's already time to agree to disagree. You think it's the 1st/5th, I think it's the 2nd/6th. (Though I do think that in relations OUTSIDE of duality these things can change... of course a person's 2nd function isn't going to energize you if you don't value it. )

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    From what I understand, being energized/activated is to do with the hidden agenda function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elzo
    From what I understand, being energized/activated is to do with the hidden agenda function.
    Yeah, at least that's the concept that activity relations are based on.

    What do you think about the rest of the stuff in the first post?
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    Default Re: The interaction of functions in duality

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    (This isn't meant to be a comprehensive guide or anything, more like an idea to build on.)

    The thing that hooks duals in the beginning of the relationship is the way partners use their 2nd function to fulfill the other's 6th function. Having our 6th function fulfilled and our 2nd function appreciated so much leads to a feeling of connectedness, like we've found exactly what we need.

    While the 2nd/6th functions give the partnership energy, the 1st/5th functions give the partnership stability. We do not have a strong internal source of our 5th function nor our 6th function, but the 6th function can still appear strong. This is because our 6th function is something we actively seek out and find external sources of. Our 5th functions, however, are less visible and at the same time, a more integral need. It's something that we cannot provide for ourselves but are totally lost without.

    We seek our 5th function from our duals in two ways: through use of our 1st function and use of our 3rd function. This connection between our 1st function and our 5th function is rather abstract and long term though. It's not as apparent as the connection between our 3rd function and 5th function.

    When we need our 5th function from our dual, we often get it through use of our 3rd function. Our 3rd function is our duals 7th function. There are two primary ways in which we receive our 5th function from our duals through the use of our 3rd function:

    • The first way is through our concern for addressing issues related to our belief that we need to use our 3rd functions to appease situations outside of our relationship with our duals. Our 3rd functions are conscious and we often feel that we are somehow obligated to meet others' demands related to our 3rd function. Our 3rd function is our duals' 7th function. Because our 7th function is generally one that we have limited patience for and see as subordinate to our 1st function, when we voice concerns related to our 3rd function, our dual responds by stating that the things we're concerned with don't really matter because concerns related to their 1st function are more important. By explaining this, they are fulfilling our 5th function with their 1st function. This is not always an easy process, however. We can be reluctant to let the concerns related to our 3rd function go, and because our 3rd function is our duals' 7th function, they are likely to get impatient with our insistence on somehow resolving related matters. We can be aggressive when it comes to problems related to our 7th function, so things can get rather tense.
    • The second way is related to concerns we have with our partner (as opposed to concerns with situations outside the relationship). When there is a problem with needing more of our 5th function from our duals, we may "act up" with our 3rd function because we don't know how else to express our need. Our duals are usually able to see through this pretty easily though, and because they can tell that we're uncomfortable with using our 3rd functions and would rather not if we don't have to, they're less likely to get impatient and argue the point as it relates to their 7th function and more likely to just respond with their 1st function right away. The reason we don't feel a need to hang on to using our 3rd function is because the matter is just between us and our dual, so we don't feel a need to appease outside people or situations.


    Our need for help related to matters of our 4th functions is much more difficult for us to express. Fortunately, our 4th function is our dual's 8th function, and the 8th function is one that's less irritating to deal with than the 7th function. When we are lacking something related to our 4th function, our duals are likely to just naturally provide what we cannot through the use of their 8th function. When it is something that they cannot do for us, they get us to do it through the use of their 2nd function. Because we respond well to our duals' use of their 2nd/our 6th function, we are likely to go along with it, relieved to avoid having to deal with our 4th function directly.
    I agree with the first paragraph.

    The sort of agree with the second para.

    I believe we are subconcious of our dual seeking function and consious of the hidden agenda function. I would say the hidden agenda function is something that needs fulfilment. Unfulfilment of the dual seeking function only leads to discontentment.

    I'm not so sure about the third para.

    Your dual does what your polr doesn't, without criticizing you.

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    seems pretty good. and i agree with what joy said about illusionary relations....they are very exciting and energizing. i sometimes wish that i didn't know about socionics though because i over analyze the illusionary relationship that i'm in....

    the relationship is going well. what am i supposed to do: say theoretically you don't fulfill my dual seeking so good bye?

    i'm 43 years old and my dual is isfp. btw i have heard tell that esfj's and isfp's make the best mates and rarely get divorced. so there's probably hardly any male isfp's left at this point that are the right age in the right geographic location yada yada.
    i'm not talking about college age couples/duality. i'm talking about people my age and the differences.

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    i'm in a snit because socionics doesn't really address practical issues like this. it's all find for those of you who are in your 20's go ahead and find your dual. it's a different landscape at my age.
    Dunno, I see in college forming these last months a shitload of dual coples, even without anybody knowing about socionics
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    i'm in a snit because socionics doesn't really address practical issues like this. it's all find for those of you who are in your 20's go ahead and find your dual. it's a different landscape at my age.
    Dunno, I see in college forming these last months a shitload of dual coples, even without anybody knowing about socionics
    that's basically what i'm saying. the pool is a lot bigger when you are young.

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    i'm in a snit because socionics doesn't really address practical issues like this. it's all find for those of you who are in your 20's go ahead and find your dual. it's a different landscape at my age.
    Dunno, I see in college forming these last months a shitload of dual coples, even without anybody knowing about socionics
    that's basically what i'm saying. the pool is a lot bigger when you are young.
    I think there are also more occasions to interact with people, especially in intra-quadra terms, and thus get to know the "right" people.

    In my advanced micro classes I've witnessed an especially high frequency of formation of beta-gamma dual couples. Basically after 2 years of uni, people have started to form groups according to quadra belonging, and if into these groups there happens to be a male-female dual cople, it's very likely that they'll get toghether romantically. The only technical difficulty is the lack of coincidence between male and female halves of dual couples: there is only one ENFj male and 3 ISTj females, 3 ISTj males and 1 ENFj female, 1 ENTj male (me lol) and 4 ISFjs (lucky you, some people would say) etc etc

    very interesting stuff to observe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    In my advanced micro classes I've witnessed an especially high frequency of formation of beta-gamma dual couples. Basically after 2 years of uni, people have started to form groups according to quadra belonging, and if into these groups there happens to be a male-female dual couple, it's very likely that they'll get together romantically. The only technical difficulty is the lack of coincidence between male and female halves of dual couples: there is only one ENFj male and 3 ISTj females, 3 ISTj males and 1 ENFj female, 1 ENTj male (me lol) and 4 ISFjs (lucky you, some people would say) etc etc

    very interesting stuff to observe
    Yeah, same thing's happened/happening around me ...
    Have hung around delta heavy/mixed quadra groups, then a beta group, and now we have our very own alpha group.
    SO HAST DU DEINE ESFJ GEFINDEN?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Let's keep in mind that we're talking about Se here... (I think Se is going to energize just about any Ni type, regardless of functional arrangement.)
    Wouldn't that be true for all the extraverted functions? Ne would definitely energize Si; Te should be able to energize Fi; and Fe would most definitely energize Ti?
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    To some extent, yes. Not sure how great that extent is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    To some extent, yes. Not sure how great that extent is.
    Or are you merely unfamiliar with how it would be as such with your non-valued functions?
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