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Thread: INTJ grieving too long for lost fiance?

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    Inquisitrix, it's very sad.

    I suspect this is not your main purpose in coming to this forum, but anyway -- this is a socionics forum, not MBTI. What we here refer to as INTj or LII (logical-intuitive introvert) does not necessarily correspond to your understanding of what an INTJ is. Especially if your fiance was ESFP, then there's a puzzle because if he was the similar type in socionics, ESFp or SEE - sensory-ethical extrovert - if you are the socionics INTj then you'd be conflictors, that is, that's the worst match possible. So I would guess that either he wasn't a socionics ESFp (SEE) or you're not a socionics INTj (LII), or both.

    For instance, if you feel you can't relate to Carla's suggestions, then it's a hint that you're not INTj in socionics.

    Anyway, we can discuss this in more detail if you think it's worth it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    .

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    Well, the deeper response I could give you would only work if you're not LII but ILI.

    Since what you're going through is typical of the Gamma quadra.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Well, essentially, that you have a longer-term perception of reality, as a continuum, as if life were a river along which you are sailing on a slow boat. Your perspective is not a moment-by-moment one; at all times you have the whole river in your mind, at some level. Not only where you are right now, but where you were and where you will be.

    Your chosen partner is someone who you can see being with you for the whole of the journey: someone you want to be with you right now and all the way to the end of the journey, and someone who wants to be for the journey, only the two of you, with any other people being of secondary importance. Not a partner just for "this moment in my life", as others may say.

    He was the man you saw being with you for the whole journey, and so your sense of loss is not limited to the present moment, but to the whole river.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    You basically have to decide whether or not you want to move on with your life or not. You have to have the courage to grow as a person, otherwise you will remain stagnant in the past. Consider what your fiance would have wanted - probably for you to be happy. Now, only you can tell what that really means, of course.


    Good luck.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I can't relate at all.

    But you're a 10 with an incoming Ph.D, and an INTj (can it get any better? :wink, go out there and ask for super hot mens' phone numbers. Even ask the ones you don't care about, it'll be good practice for you. Schedule the hot ones to meet you at Starbucks, incerementally for every 1hr 30min (John at 2:00, intjguy at 3:30, Charles at 5:00 etc). $9 is a cheap price to pay to check them out, and if they're gentlemen it'll be free!

    Walk them to their car before times up, or rather when you're sick of the guy and feel like playing online chess again (starbucks has wi-fi and you'll be bringing your laptop). Hey and do you have any idea how many men will approach you while you're waiting? The world is your chess board and you don't even have to play.





    The chances of an intj finding a guy with the self-control and challenge to stimulate her is lower than Hell; so get to work. Dating for the intj is a nuissance, so I advise you build a catapult out of your chair. Particularly a Celtic one.





    Remember, the best kind of time that heals is one filled with [the opposite] sex.

    And btw, I do believe you're canonizing the dead.

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    If you're so hot, just go to the socionics dating site, post a picture, and wait for replies. There are many male ESFjs who are looking for you.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitrix
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    If you're so hot, just go to the socionics dating site, post a picture, and wait for replies. There are many male ESFjs who are looking for you.
    If you want to date me because of my looks, I don't want to date you. Unless you're rich. /sarc
    I would date you... but I only like ugly chicks. Sorry!
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    edited: Heh heh heh....
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Sry Inquisitrix I have nothing for you )c:

    I just wanted to quote...
    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitrix
    I've had staggering numbers of people tell me to just "Get over it," "Move on," "Learn to live with it," "You'll find someone new," "He'd want you to be happy," etc, etc, but I think what startles ME are the people who find it so easy to get over the death of their mate.
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    You basically have to decide whether or not you want to move on with your life or not. You have to have the courage to grow as a person, otherwise you will remain stagnant in the past. Consider what your fiance would have wanted - probably for you to be happy. Now, only you can tell what that really means, of course.
    O_O
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr
    There is no solution, this is not a math problem.
    Say that with a "this. is. sparta!" voice... absolutely amazing...
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    This thread is just gossip, it is not production orientated. She already knows what she needs to do. If anything, it just furthers the identity with "my fiance died, I can never move on, so you should feel bad for me"

    I want to fix the problem, not get patted on the head
    You know what the problem is - and you certainly did not need to make this thread to figure it out.




    Another way to look at it is - when are you going to accept that you are the only one that is holding you back from moving on with your life? Stop blaming anything else, and go forward. But yes, you've got almost a decade of stagnation to deal with, old habits to rewrite. So in one sense, if is a matter of your own self confidence - do you really have it in you to move on?

    Or are you going to stay in this same sorry state of affairs for the rest of your life.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    but I think what startles ME are the people who find it so easy to get over the death of their mate.
    Does that really startle you, or is that the acceptable excuse you tell yourself and others - so you don't have to face the "difficulty" of moving on?

    I don't understand the people who can grieve for their mate in six months, begin dating, and then remarry in a year or two.
    Yes you do. You're the LII, the scientist, the rational, and so on. You can figure it out.

    It is almost like you are playing dumb.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    This thread is just gossip, it is not production orientated. She already knows what she needs to do. If anything, it just furthers the identity with "my fiance died, I can never move on, so you should feel bad for me"

    I want to fix the problem, not get patted on the head
    You know what the problem is - and you certainly did not need to make this thread to figure it out.




    Another way to look at it is - when are you going to accept that you are the only one that is holding you back from moving on with your life? Stop blaming anything else, and go forward. But yes, you've got almost a decade of stagnation to deal with, old habits to rewrite. So in one sense, if is a matter of your own self confidence - do you really have it in you to move on?

    Or are you going to stay in this same sorry state of affairs for the rest of your life.
    I feel sorry for your loss. But...
    I agree with UDP. No one is gonna help you move it. It's something only you can do. Stop dwelling on the idea of his death. Move on already! Life doesn't move if you don't move it!
    Like you said, it's been years. How long more do you wanna take? Another decade?
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    My understanding is that her question is precisely why it seems to be so much more difficult for her than others take for granted.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    To the point:

    In the case of LIIs, socionics INTjs: no, they are not particularly susceptible to this in my opinion.

    In the case of Gammas and perhaps particularly of ILIs, socionics INTps: yes, very much so. And in their case, "to get out there" is to rather miss the point.

    Now if you're so certain you got your socionics type just because you've read a few profiles, well, I think you shouldn't be.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    In the case of Gammas and perhaps particularly of ILIs, socionics INTps: yes, very much so. And in their case, "to get out there" is to rather miss the point.
    could you elaborate on that?

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    Reuben Mcnew had some profiles up on his site but I don't think they are incorporated in this forum anywhere.. maybe someone could post it if they have it saved?

    But I related to the INTj profile, particularly one section regarding personal relationships. The way I understood the description of the relationship of an INTj is that he or she takes relationship failure (for whatever reason) as some kind of personal failure in that they are not able to understand why things did not work out. So, for an INTj to "get over" something would be to make the situation make sense. Speaking from personal experience as an INTj I can tell you it was accurate for me. A relationship failure pretty much stuck a wrench in my functioning that did yes, last several years. That does not seem to sound like what you're describing, though. I can see an Fi quadra type like an INTp (INTjs would be considered an Fe quadra type, forgive me if you are aware of this already) having a more "irrational" approach to relationships and perhaps to be reacted to the way people have in this thread would be annoying (if she was consoled in the real situation, never mind that the point was missed); however I don't see the advice of "getting over" something to be particularly helpful to either an INTj or an INTp. So, I don't think that this advice is specific to either type, and therefore not either type in particular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitrix
    It's lovely that you all are having a conversation with one another about getting over it, moving on, etc, etc. The topic of this thread, just to move it back onto point, was specifically whether or not INTJs in particular are susceptible to extraordinarily long periods of grieving due to their particular psychological tendency to emotional fragility and tendency to form deep bonds. My particular situation is being used as an example, people. Quit giving me snippy personal advice, and get back onto the topic. Philosophically/psychologically speaking, should an INTJ be left alone for as long as they want to be left alone, or should they be encouraged to "get out there" again?
    You make it sound like those are two different things.
    "Philosophically/psychologically" speaking, you're just looking for personal advice. This really is not as intellectual as you are trying to make it seem.


    The topic of this thread, just to move it back onto point, was specifically whether or not INTJs in particular are susceptible to extraordinarily long periods of grieving due to their particular psychological tendency to emotional fragility and tendency to form deep bonds.
    It's not socionics related. You can gain insight as to why you are that way, but it does not mean that having outrageously long periods of grievance, therefore, means you are an LII.


    Why are you asking that question? What is it that you want to find out?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I would like to thank you all for your responses. Unfortunately, I seem to have miscommunicated my intentions, and in so doing have attracted entirely the wrong sort of attention here, and so have decided to delete my post, while remaining appreciative of your time and energy in thinking of responses to each of the individuals who have participated here.
    Inquisitrix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitrix
    I would like to thank you all for your responses. Unfortunately, I seem to have miscommunicated my intentions, and in so doing have attracted entirely the wrong sort of attention here, and so have decided to delete my post, while remaining appreciative of your time and energy in thinking of responses to each of the individuals who have participated here.
    Inquisitrix.
    I totally saw this coming a mile away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    In the case of Gammas and perhaps particularly of ILIs, socionics INTps: yes, very much so. And in their case, "to get out there" is to rather miss the point.
    could you elaborate on that?
    The kind of grief she described is related to and in my opinion.

    "Get out there" in order to feel better, "move on", etc, it's about getting input from and . So LIIs will find it particularly helpful.

    If your grief is based on and input, to go for and , for a Gamma, will be more annoying than anything else, and to the extent tjhat it will "work", only at a very short-lived level, like the "relief" you get when just enjoying a nice meal or watching a comedy that makes you laugh. It may help you at level; it will do nothing about your longer-term and grief.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitrix
    have attracted entirely the wrong sort of attention here
    Heh I tried to make fun of him and steer the thread but nothing...
    Can someone hack into the forum to prevent ESTjs from ever posting in a thread where something personal is shared?


    Ok, this post is totally useless as far as this thread goes, but it should be a helpful example of ISTj-ESTj relationship...
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitrix
    I would like to thank you all for your responses. Unfortunately, I seem to have miscommunicated my intentions, and in so doing have attracted entirely the wrong sort of attention here, and so have decided to delete my post, while remaining appreciative of your time and energy in thinking of responses to each of the individuals who have participated here.
    Inquisitrix.
    this sounds INTj.

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    fwiw and i guess kinda too late but to answer your (implied) question since you've deleted already, YES.

    i think it's kind of a variation on the grudge-holding that IJ temperaments do, except with an intj spin due to the Fi role function. kinda like not letting go of past events and their hurts.

    the best advice i ever got was from an esfp: "NEXT!!" not that you are ready to do this, but in the end it's the letting go of the hurt by moving to the next person which will free you. sometimes ya just have to fake it till ya make it. you can always reserve just a small part of yourself for the hurt and grief and let the rest move forward.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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