Relabeling Types

[Logos]

Just a simple question: If you could relabel the types based upon the names of people attached to the type, what would they be?

To get the ball rolling:

LII: Kant
- While Robespierre was probably an LII, I think that Immanuel Kant is again a better representation of the LII thinking and lifestyle.

ILE: Hawking
- I do not think that Don Quixote is a name that appropriately reflects the ILE, perhaps the Dr. Frankenstein, but the Frankenstein has become more attached to the monster and not the maker. And while I think that the Einstein would be a better reflection of the ILE than Stephen Hawking, Einstein's name is used a noun simply for genius, which may cause someone to overstate or misidentify with the type.

[UDP]

This might be a good idea.


There is no one I would want to be LSE that I can think of though. There are plenty of people I'm not so fond of...

[krieger]

--

[Logos]

Why choose an ILE typing that is controversial as the label for the ILE?

Which one are you referring? As I would rather have a label that is controversial over a label that is just clearly wrong to begin with. :wink:

[krieger]

--

[Ezra]

This might be a good idea.

There is no one I would want to be LSE that I can think of though. There are plenty of people I'm not so fond of...

An LSE is an LSE. If you are an LSE, it doesn't matter what type an LSE is associated, because both you and they are LSE.

Sherlock Holmes is the perfect example of an LSE. There is no need to change him.

Perhaps there should be an English equivalent set of people, perhaps changing people like Yesenin and Zhukov to something else, since most people don't know who the fuck they are, and if you want to attract people, you need knowable people that one can identify with.

[aestrivex]

this is an idea i've toyed around with but was never able to complete because i don't know enough historical figures well enough to cover all the types. at best i might get about halfway.

[Ezra]

First brainstorm - change Commander Zhukov to Alexander the Great.

[Logos]

this is an idea i've toyed around with but was never able to complete because i don't know enough historical figures well enough to cover all the types. at best i might get about halfway.

In which case, you should go as far as you can and turn it into a community effort.

[implied]

First brainstorm - change Commander Zhukov to Alexander the Great.

that's actually probably not a bad switch.

[aestrivex]

all right.

(subject to change)
ILE einstein
SEI
ESE
LII immanuel kant
EIE
LSI stalin
SLE
IEI nietzsche (i know there's been discussion on his type, but he seems an extremely clear cut IEI to me)
SEE
ILI darwin
LIE
ESI
LSE thomas edison
EII dotstoyevsky is a probably one of the best examples there is. lincoln would do i guess.
IEE
SLI

[machintruc]

EIE : ******

[force my hand]

SLI <> 'Solo'

(is that even right?)

[Logos]

EIE : ******

EIE: Goethe

[Slacker]

My only preference is that real people be used rather than fictional characters.

[Logos]

My only preference is that real people be used rather than fictional characters.

Which was one of my complaints with the ILE's use of Don Quixote.

[aestrivex]

My only preference is that real people be used rather than fictional characters.

why?

[Slacker]

Fictional people are sometimes pretty evidently one type or another, but I don't think it's always so clear. If types are innate, then it seems like fictional characters would usually not be clearly one type because characters don't act out of nature - everything they say and do is consciously written by someone else, who is often a different type altogether. And then sometimes they're acted on screen by another person of another type. And maybe the director is another type yet and has influence. Etc.

[Rocky]

EIE : ******

get the fuck out

[aestrivex]

Fictional people are sometimes pretty evidently one type or another, but I don't think it's always so clear. If types are innate, then it seems like fictional characters would usually not be clearly one type because characters don't act out of nature - everything they say and do is consciously written by someone else, who is often a different type altogether. And then sometimes they're acted on screen by another person of another type. And maybe the director is another type yet and has influence. Etc.

agreed.

even despite this, however, i do believe that there are some fictional characters that are consistent enough in their actions to be typable. i am hesitant to type many fictional characters for this reason, but if you manage to find a fictional character who fits literally every piece of the puzzle for one type, i don't see a problem with using him if he presents a more recognizable name than any living person.


the russians using tom sawyer as IEE is not a bad example of that, although i think thomas huxley is more frequently associated with that type. there are undoubtedly some good historical IEEs that could be used but i cant think of any.

[mikemex]

(somewhat) Contemporary:

(subject to change)
ILE Steven Spielberg
SEI Mike Oldfield
ESE Robin Williams
LII Carl Sagan
EIE Michael Jackson
LSI Joseph Ratzinger
SLE Colin Powell
IEI Jimmy Carter
SEE Hugo Chavez
ILI Stephen King
LIE Carlos Slim
ESI Theresa of Calcutta
LSE Margarett Tatcher
EII Salvador Allende
IEE Bill Cosby
SLI Yuri Gagarin

Historic:

ILE Archimedes of Syracuse
SEI Johan Sebastian Bach
ESE Miguel de Cervantes
LII Rene Descartes
EIE Immanuel Jesus Christ
LSI Aristotle
SLE Alexander The Great
IEI Mahatma Gandhi
SEE Titus Flavius Vespasianus
ILI Flavious Josephus
LIE Peter the Great
ESI The Catholic Monarchs (Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon)
LSE Thomas Alba Edisson
EII Friedrich Nietzche
IEE Epicurus
SLI Leonardo Da Vinci

[aestrivex]

LII Carl Sagan
IEI Jimmy Carter
ILI Stephen King
IEE Bill Cosby
ESE Miguel de Cervantes
LSI Aristotle
EII Friedrich Nietzche
SLI Leonardo Da Vinci

try again.

[Ezra]

LSE thomas edison

Expat and I talked about this a while ago - I think he's a potential LIE. I suggest that for LSE you just pull out any famous army drill sergeant and use them.

[aestrivex]

maybe. i've heard a little bit about the possibility he might be LIE and i don't think so but its not something i've considered extensively. remember that at this point the whole list is a work in progress.

[Gilly]

LII Carl Sagan
IEI Jimmy Carter
ILI Stephen King
IEE Bill Cosby
ESE Miguel de Cervantes
LSI Aristotle
EII Friedrich Nietzche
SLI Leonardo Da Vinci

try again.

Not so sure about Colin Powell as SLE either. And I think the historical Jesus of Nazareth was probably more ESI or EII than EIE.

Expat has explained LSE for Edison to me before, and I think it makes more sense than LIE.

I've heard ILE for Ghandi before, fwiw.

[Expat]

I must say I liked the suggestion of Victor Frankenstein for ILE.

Others would be --

ILE - Ted Turner, Larry David
EII - Marcus Aurelius
SLE - Lenin
EIE - Franklin Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan
ESI - Queen Victoria
IEE - Carl Sagan ?

[Creepy-bg]

FWIW I hate the idea of labeling types with peoples names- real or fictional. First you're assuming that everybody is familiar with the personalities of the people your naming the types after. Second you're assuming that you're familiar enough with their personalities to type those people 100% right, which is just silly being that nobody can be typed with 100% assuredly.

I can accept using the social role nicknames... that makes more sense since they actually give you some incite into the type, and even if somebody doesn't know the word being used as the name for the type all they have to do is go look it up and they'll get it right away. When you use a persons name though, if somebody isn't familiar with them they'd have to go read a biography, watch a movie, read a book, etc... which is just wayyyyy too much to have to do for an impression that may or may not even be right.

Don't mean to poop on your parade here, I'm just not too keen with this sort of intellectual biasing being put into Socionics when it doesn't need it. Keep it simple stupid!

[Phaedrus]

Why would Carl Sagan be an LII? I can see no obvious reason to believe that. Expat's suggestion IEE makes more sense, even though I am not sure that is the most likely type either.

[aestrivex]

i'm not sure about carl sagan but i've always thought he was LIE.

[Phaedrus]

i'm not sure about carl sagan but i've always thought he was LIE.

That would be my first guess too, based on what I have seen of him on television (but that was quite a long time ago). I haven't studied his books in any greater detail.

[Logos]

I must say I liked the suggestion of Victor Frankenstein for ILE.

Others would be --

ILE - Ted Turner, Larry David
EII - Marcus Aurelius
SLE - Lenin
EIE - Franklin Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan
ESI - Queen Victoria
IEE - Carl Sagan ?

Thanks. I think that mad scientist archetype of Victor Frankenstein fits the idea of the Seeker & Inventor better than Don "charges blindly at windmills" Quixote.

LIE - Hume
ILI - Newton
SLI - Locke

[krieger]

There's a problem with assigning stereotypes of 'weirdness' to types, as is done with the Don Quixote character. Most people are, well, ya know, normal, and that goes for pretty much every type as much as for any other.

[Logos]

There's a problem with assigning stereotypes of 'weirdness' to types, as is done with the Don Quixote character. Most people are, well, ya know, normal, and that goes for pretty much every type as much as for any other.

True, but Victor Frankenstein "mad scientist" or not, does seem to be an ILE, whereas Don Quixote most likely is not. Again, I would prefer Einstein for the ILE, except for the connotations of being an intelligent genius attached to his name, which may cause others who style-themselves intelligent geniuses to mistype themselves.

[Not A Communist Shill]

There's a problem with assigning stereotypes of 'weirdness' to types, as is done with the Don Quixote character. Most people are, well, ya know, normal, and that goes for pretty much every type as much as for any other.

True, but Victor Frankenstein "mad scientist" or not, does seem to be an ILE, whereas Don Quixote most likely is not. Again, I would prefer Einstein for the ILE, except for the connotations of being an intelligent genius attached to his name, which may cause others who style-themselves intelligent geniuses to mistype themselves.

Having slightly exaggerated fictional characters might give some people a clearer understanding of a type's caricature i.e. Hamlet for EIE . Stalin for LSI and ****** for EIE are probably very good real-life examples for those types, though I think it would prolly be a good idea to have less 'evil' people .

What about SEI and ESE? Should we have some singer or writer or something? - might spoil the list of philosophers and scientists somewhat :wink:.