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Thread: How important is money for LIEs-ENTjs?

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    Default How important is money for LIEs-ENTjs?

    Do some ENTjs want more money than others? And if so, why?

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    Default Re: ENTjs and Money

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Do some ENTjs want more money than others? And if so, why?
    Well, obviously, a wad of notes can be used to prop up the wonky leg of a table.
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    Te dominant with Si Polr manifests in the urge to have enough money to wipe his/her ass with.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
    Te dominant with Si Polr manifests in the urge to have enough money to wipe his/her ass with.

    my first thought was, "who doesn't want enough money to wipe his/her ass with?"
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    I think that the idea is to have enough money to ensure that you don't have to worry about anything, even if you can't work or whatever you and everyone in your family will always be comfortable and have all of your needs met. They can hire a cleaning service, a personal trainer, a cook/dietitian, an interior designer, the best medical professionals in the world, etc. Enough Se removes the need to concern oneself with Si.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Default Re: ENTjs and Money

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Do some ENTjs want more money than others? And if so, why?
    How do you really answer "yes" or "no" to that?

    Seems like an incredible simplistic question -are you going anywheres with it?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    The only reason I opened this topic was that I misread the title "ENTjs and Monkey".
    Intuition

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default How important is money for LIEs-ENTjs?

    I know there's a topic of practically the same title in General Discussion, but it's not taking the same angle I want to take. I'd be grateful for any feedback from Expat, Joy and Thunder (and any other LIEs on this forum that I know not of).

    My question is, how central is money to the LIE? Is making money an essential characteristic of any LIE? Can you still be an LIE and not have a 24/7 concern for cash?

    Some further, perhaps more pertinent questions are, how does money-making and enterprising manifest itself in LIEs outside of business - basically, not all LIEs are businessmen and women, so how do other LIEs in different careers show this, if at all? And could any LIEs - or those who know them - give me some examples of how it's shown itself in them throughout their life?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    LIEs are, by nature, not happy unless they're onto some business, investment, the development of intellectual property (something they will receive continuous royalties from the sale of), or other similar plan. If you want to see LIEs at their best, talk to them when they're all fired up about some sort of business goal.

    What I said in the LIEs and money topic is general applies here as well:

    I think that the idea is to have enough money to ensure that you don't have to worry about anything, even if you can't work or whatever you and everyone in your family will always be comfortable and have all of your needs met. They can hire a cleaning service, a personal trainer, a cook/dietitian, an interior designer, the best medical professionals in the world, etc. Enough Se removes the need to concern oneself with Si.
    If this goal cannot be accomplished financially, a LIE will typically try to find some other means to the same end. It's not about money. It's not about material possessions. It's about freedom/independence.

    It may help to look at it purely from the Se Hidden Agenda perspective. EIEs also have a Se Hidden Agenda, but their Hidden Agenda tries to manifest itself via a Fe/Ti approach. While a LIE will typically use business to attempt to create freedom, a EIE will use social maneuvering and/or large organizations such as military, religion, large corporations, politics, pop culture/media (by becoming a celebrity), etc.

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    Well all that I can say is that my ENTj friend is money driven for the most part.

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    Money
    SEE Unknown Subtype
    6w7 sx/so



    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Default Re: ENTjs and Money

    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Do some ENTjs want more money than others? And if so, why?
    How do you really answer "yes" or "no" to that?

    Seems like an incredible simplistic question -are you going anywheres with it?
    Of course! Think about it... why would I ask such a question, if it weren't directly relevant to my theories?

    This question specifically applies to the transcendental function, and the concept of will to power/opinion leadership. Bill Gates is an ENTj, this we have settled. He's also the richest man in the world. (yes I know about the Mexican guy) Were he not an opinion leader, he couldn't have done it.

    Opinion leaders, as the directors of instinctual strategy, have a natural advantage over opinion followers. ("the masses") This usually correlates to higher standards of living as the opinion leaders naturally overcome, through cooperation, the obstacles to their goals. The question is, does an ENTj opinion leader have more desire for money than a "normal" ENTj?

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    They literally need to have money. It's a compensation for not being able to comfortably attend to Si needs.

    Messy house? Hire a cleaner.

    Overweight? Liposuction.

    Rooms look like shit? Pay a decorator.

    Too lazy to make breakfast? Stop by McDonald's.

    Too much McDonald's? Your ISFj wife who spends your money will slap your ass.

    It's not so much that they will DO all of these things, but that they know they CAN if they have to. The money allows them to not worry about Si needs.

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    My mom was a teacher and therefore never made much money, and it was a constant issue for her. When she was in college, there weren't many career options available for women. Teaching was about her only real choice. She actually studied theater, but even then it was more a case of teaching drama than traveling and acting. She did buy a theater and she spent ages getting that business going when I was young but her constant working caused much friction between her and my dad and she had the choice of marriage or the business and chose to stay married.

    So she compensated by pinching every penny as hard as she could. She would spend hours every week researching each grocery store to figure out which had the best deal on whatever. She would plan menus around how to spend the least money. She had elaborate books and things she'd fill out. And it wasn't just groceries. Everything. I have reacted to this by NEVER buying store brand food. It drives my mom crazy.

    She has also always liked to read books by financial gurus like Suze Ormond (whatever here name is) and lately some guy whose name I can't remember. She's on this again because my brother just gotten divorced and is therefore destitute, and she's determined to drag him out of debt within two years. She has a plan! A plan I tell you! I hear about her plan all the time.

    She was also really into figuring out savings plans and which was best when we were kids. She was able, on my parents' two teacher salaries, to save up enough money for all three of us kids to have our university expenses completely paid for. That was her goal and she accomplished it. She also planned how my parents could invest what limited money they had so that my parents would be able to retire early, and she accomplished that too.

    Also, she isn't like me in that she never would have been content to be stay at home with us. She always had to work. She also wasn't willing to share finances with my dad. They both always had their own savings and checking accounts, and she would tell him how much he owed for his part of bills or savings or whatever, and he'd give her that amount, and then what they had left over was their own.

    Thus ends my story of my ENTj mom and money.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    She has a plan! A plan I tell you! I hear about her plan all the time.
    LMAO


    Your mom sounds awesome.

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    SM your mom sounds like my estj mom. must be at least a little generational, too. my mom was a teacher also.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Blaze, did your mom always have a long term financial plan that she loved talking about?

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    yes. and she calls me on the phone several times a week to investigate and prompt me about my long term strategic financial plan! lol

    thing is i'm a typical entp....waste a lot of money. but i actually do have a plan now, a system for saving, so i'm in better shape.

    my next plan is to rent my house to graduate students and move into a bigger one in the country. but i can't do it yet. have to get rid of my credit card debt

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Default Re: LIEs & Money

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Some further, perhaps more pertinent questions are, how does money-making and enterprising manifest itself in LIEs outside of business - basically, not all LIEs are businessmen and women, so how do other LIEs in different careers show this, if at all? And could any LIEs - or those who know them - give me some examples of how it's shown itself in them throughout their life?
    Of course not all LIEs will be in specific business activities as such, many LIEs also go into science and such, but even then, they will think of how to maximize their earnings - whether by moving around for better jobs, or living below their means in order to save money and invest it, or by doing something on the side, or all of those.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    They literally need to have money. It's a compensation for not being able to comfortably attend to Si needs.

    Messy house? Hire a cleaner.

    Overweight? Liposuction.

    Rooms look like shit? Pay a decorator.

    Too lazy to make breakfast? Stop by McDonald's.

    Too much McDonald's? Your ISFj wife who spends your money will slap your ass.

    It's not so much that they will DO all of these things, but that they know they CAN if they have to. The money allows them to not worry about Si needs.
    that is kind of brilliant, honestly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    They literally need to have money. It's a compensation for not being able to comfortably attend to Si needs.

    Messy house? Hire a cleaner.

    Overweight? Liposuction.

    Rooms look like shit? Pay a decorator.

    Too lazy to make breakfast? Stop by McDonald's.

    Too much McDonald's? Your ISFj wife who spends your money will slap your ass.

    It's not so much that they will DO all of these things, but that they know they CAN if they have to. The money allows them to not worry about Si needs.
    Spot on, I'd say.

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    I need money to do things with my ESI more so than to hire a cleaner. Want to go to a trip? Easy, you've got the money! Want to give a gift? Easy, you've got the money! Want to go out for dinner and offer everything? Easy, you've got the money!
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I need money to do things with my ESI more so than to hire a cleaner. Want to go to a trip? Easy, you've got the money! Want to give a gift? Easy, you've got the money! Want to go out for dinner and offer everything? Easy, you've got the money!
    Who doesn't want that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    They literally need to have money. It's a compensation for not being able to comfortably attend to Si needs.

    Messy house? Hire a cleaner.

    Overweight? Liposuction.

    Rooms look like shit? Pay a decorator.

    Too lazy to make breakfast? Stop by McDonald's.

    Too much McDonald's? Your ISFj wife who spends your money will slap your ass.

    It's not so much that they will DO all of these things, but that they know they CAN if they have to. The money allows them to not worry about Si needs.
    Spot on, I'd say.
    I'm a bit like that too. I also know other SLIs that would just throw money around just to satisfy their urges/needs.
    But I think your right in someway anyway.

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    You're SLI?

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    cunnilingus epilepsy inducer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    You're SLI?
    yes

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    it's weird that polr thing.

    This reminds me of when an ENTj got obsessed with his health, started spouting health facts everywhere and an ESFp said "you should be a doctor", but I disagreed.

    *takes notes, interested in polr at the moment*

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    You're SLI?
    yes
    You always struck me as Ti > Te, but I could see you as a SLI (and have no reason to think that you're not atm). (Do you think you could be the same type as heath?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    it's weird that polr thing.

    This reminds me of when an ENTj got obsessed with his health, started spouting health facts everywhere and an ESFp said "you should be a doctor", but I disagreed.

    *takes notes, interested in polr at the moment*
    lol

    Yes, I think LIEs take a scientific approach to health matters because biology makes sense to them, but they're unaware of how important or unimportant Si matters are. If they start to concern themselves with health matters they can quickly take it overboard. It's like they lack sense in Si matters.

    For example, if a LIE has a pain somewhere, he literally doesn't know how bad it is most of the time. He doesn't know if it signifies a serious problem or if it's something common that comes and goes for a lot of people and doesn't require any medical attention or medicine or extra rest or whatever. That's why they tend to either ignore health problems until they're really serious or worry excessively over little things that don't really matter. A LIE that's obsessed with health concerns is a pitiful thing indeed.

    Imagine someone with that problem who has a medical condition that's difficult for doctors to diagnose (or even determine with certainty that there is even anything wrong). That would be a huge Si PoLR hit... having people tell you that you're fine or that you're a hypochondriac or you're just depressed when you're in a lot of pain or whatever and think that something is wrong. It would be easy to doubt yourself, and looking for answers would turn up all sorts of possibilities and it would be difficult to distinguish which ones deserve real consideration and which ones don't. Even filling out medical questionnaires or answering questions doctors ask would be difficult...


    Example:

    Question: Do you experience headaches?
    LIE thinks/says: "Yes, but who doesn't? How bad does a headache need to be in order to count here? I do get headaches, but they're not that bad... they're not usually migraines or anything like that. I don't feel anywhere near as bad as people I've known who get migraines. I should say no... but then again, it's not asking about migraines specifically, so maybe I should say yes. I *think* I get headaches a couple times a week. I don't really keep track of that sort of thing. And I think sometimes it's just from straining my eyes (or waiting too long to eat, etc.) so I'm not even sure if it counts. I don't know how to answer this question. "

    Question: Do you experience dizziness?
    LIE thinks/says: "Once in a while, but it's not that bad. I mean, I don't fall down or anything, and when I lay down it's not like the room is spinning. And it could just be from a mild ear infection or not eating enough or something like that when it happens. Okay, so it's not a major problem... I don't know how to answer this question. "

    Question: Do you experience frequent urination?
    LIE thinks/says: "How frequent is 'frequent'? I mean, I drink a lot of water... I don't know how to answer this question. "

    Question: Do you experience excessive thirst?
    LIE thinks/says: "What's 'excessive'? "

    Question: Do you get heartburn?
    LIE thinks/says: "How bad does it need to be in order to answer yes this question? What if it's only a mild feeling and it comes and goes? What if I only get it from taking ibuprofen? That's probably it... I don't know how to answer this question. Dammit, if I say yes to all of this little stuff the form will be all marked up and my major complaints won't stand out as much. "

    Question: How would you rate your pain on a scale of 1 to 10, one being no pain at all and 10 being the worst pain you've ever felt?
    LIE thinks/says:

    ...

    LIE thinks/says: "I hate this shit. I'm not coming to the doctor anymore unless I have to. Ugh but then when I do the doctor will scold me again for not coming in sooner. "

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    Joy's list looks an awful lot like dual-seeking Si too though. I've had those same conversations with doctors.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Yes. Weak Si is weak Si. However, types that value Si will appreciate help in Si matters, and types who do not will feel uncomfortable if someone's addressing their weak Si.

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    I'm not sure how this got to talking about answering doctors questions...and I had something to say, but nevermind...
    SEE Unknown Subtype
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion
    I'm not sure how this got to talking about answering doctors questions...and I had something to say, but nevermind...
    Do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by electric
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    You're SLI?
    yes
    You always struck me as Ti > Te, but I could see you as a SLI (and have no reason to think that you're not atm). (Do you think you could be the same type as heath?)
    electric was in London, and what all of us noticed was a near-zero , besides very IP movements. SLI or ILI seemed very obvious.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I never know the answers to the doctors questions either. My thoughts closely resemble the ones Joy wrote. On a few occasions, I've unintentionally talked doctors out of thinking something is wrong with me (when it is) just by trying to answer the questions accurately. I also seem to have a real problem with medical questionares. rating pain and the like is difficult and rather pointless for people who try to be objective.

    doctor says "where does it hurt?'

    i say "what do you mean by hurt?"

    but then again, i always try to know what people mean by their words if i am to try to communicate with them. all i'm saying is it seems to be more than an LIE Si thing. I wouldn't be surprised if ILI, LII, ILE, IEI, EII did it to varying degrees too.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    I never know the answers to the doctors questions either. My thoughts closely resemble the ones Joy wrote. On a few occasions, I've unintentionally talked doctors out of thinking something is wrong with me (when it is) just by trying to answer the questions accurately. I also seem to have a real problem with medical questionares. rating pain and the like is difficult and rather pointless for people who try to be objective.

    doctor says "where does it hurt?'

    i say "what do you mean by hurt?"


    but then again, i always try to know what people mean by their words if i am to try to communicate with them. all i'm saying is it seems to be more than an LIE Si thing. I wouldn't be surprised if ILI, LII, ILE, IEI, EII did it to varying degrees too.
    Exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by electric
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    You're SLI?
    yes
    You always struck me as Ti > Te, but I could see you as a SLI (and have no reason to think that you're not atm). (Do you think you could be the same type as heath?)
    electric was in London, and what all of us noticed was a near-zero , besides very IP movements. SLI or ILI seemed very obvious.
    I don't think most of that was zero- but just a lack of me being me, strange time for me in general and I was suspsious of Ricks intentions.

    And heath is far too judgemental, obsessive of small details, negative (sarcastism) etc. for me to see us as simular in a type way.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion
    I'm not sure how this got to talking about answering doctors questions...and I had something to say, but nevermind...
    Do it.

    I would now, if I remembered.


    I think I was going to relate....in some way....



    (duh)


    I thought I'd be hyjackulating though.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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