Is this a Te EJ?

[Minde]

He's a geeky, dorky sort of fellow. Not at all into sports or athletics. Very much into computers and math. It's definitely brains over brawn for him, and it works quite well. Efficiency and forethought turn into speed and strength. The results of his efforts seem, to me, much better than those of most.

Lots of energy. It seems he's always moving around and doing things. Even when sitting still.

Really good at designing things for efficiency and practicality. He's really good about setting up structures, like for websites, that will last for a long time and be easy to maintain. He also has an eye for creating beauty, though I don't think he feels confident in it.

Is frugal. Likes to plan ahead for contingencies.

Knows everything. Or, at least, it seems like it. Seriously, I can ask him just about any question about something I want to know and he has an answer. Not only does he have an answer, but he explains it to me. In as much detail as I want. Anything from a biblical concept to where the
center of gravity would be in a donut-shaped planet. Sometimes he has to stop and think for a little, and sometimes he'll say that he doesn't remember or he's not sure, but he'll always at least try. And he'll explain it according to my level of understanding, as simply or completely as I need/want. (I selfishly quite like this quality in him.)

He was studying for awhile to be a rocket scientist (for real - he even got to fly in one of those planes that goes way up in the air then drops so you can experience free fall). Currently, he designs bridges and does some website design on the side.

Isn't really the best at knowing how to judge people's perceptions and boundaries. Sometimes he'll say or do things that are invasive or not very nice. It's not intentional, though, I think, because he's actually a kind person. And, if he realizes he's made a mistake, he's pretty open to correction on those sorts of things.

[Expat]

Yes, sounds like Te EJ and probably ENTj.

[Smilingeyes]

Hello Minde. It certainly seems like Ej-Te but I don't think one can be absolutely sure of the temperament. Only the Thinking part seems really clear.
Happy to see you again.

[Minde]

Yes, sounds like Te EJ and probably ENTj.

Thank you. This is another one of those people where I've had an idea for awhile, but I'm not confident enough to really decide.

Hello Minde. It certainly seems like Ej-Te but I don't think one can be absolutely sure of the temperament. Only the Thinking part seems really clear.

Hello. Why wouldn't one be sure of the temperament? Because temperaments are unsure things? Or because I failed to fully describe the man? Or perhaps something else?

Happy to see you again.

Is that so?

[meatburger]

Yeah it sounds a lot like a Te EJ to me except for the Nerdy and Geeky part. The ENTj's and ESTj's i know (i know heaps) none of them are geeky or nerdy. (thats probablly just my personal experience tho.

My ESTj friend is like that, he has a lot of knowledge about a lot of things and explains them.

Happy to see you again.

Is that so?

Nah he was lying

[Minde]

Yeah it sounds a lot like a Te EJ to me except for the Nerdy and Geeky part. The ENTj's and ESTj's i know (i know heaps) none of them are geeky or nerdy. (thats probablly just my personal experience tho.

My ESTj friend is like that, he has a lot of knowledge about a lot of things and explains them.

I haven't actually been able to see him much for the past couple of years, but just these last few days I got to talk with him a little. We talked geek one late night for as long as my tired brain could take it. It was quite fun. (I think I even impressed him a little. He said something to the effect of it's been a long time since he's talked so indepthly geeky with a girl. Considering the source, I took it as a compliment.)

Nah he was lying

I suspected as much.

[UDP]

Isn't really the best at knowing how to judge people's perceptions and boundaries. Sometimes he'll say or do things that are invasive or not very nice. It's not intentional, though, I think, because he's actually a kind person. And, if he realizes he's made a mistake, he's pretty open to correction on those sorts of things.

Yeah, that sounds like Te. It seems ENTjs are less aware of what they are doing, but do them more. Personally, I am just as horrible, but I just don't say anything. It always feels really awkward, I was actually going to write another post about it today.

[Minde]

I'm not sure this has much to do with determining his personality, but I thought you, UDP, might find his short autobiography at least a little interesting, especially if you two do end up being similar in type.

[spoil:ddb92cb7c9]

I grew up in a split-up family in the rural coastal town of Tillamook in western Oregon. Neither of my parents ever really went to church. Growing up I attached myself to science and mathematics. I quickly studied and accepted a natural explanation of everything that had ever happened. I was a sharp atheist and in high school I actively attacked those who clung to any mind-numbing "religion". I was always ready to use reason, and logic, and all that science had theorized in this attack.

While in high school I thought that I was basically a "good guy". I never got involved with drugs and I received good grades in school. However I had no reason to be a moral person, other than to make people think more of me. I had no purpose at all in life, so took this along with the fear that I would be forgotten and I invented my own purpose, to make a name for myself. I had always wanted to be an astronaut and I decided since everyone knows of Neil Armstrong, the first man on the moon, I would become the first man on Mars, to make a name for myself.

My senior year a good friend of mine from a volunteer program (outdoor school) died of sudden kidney failure. One of the last times I spoke to him he had shared some of his story and how Jesus had made an impact. I was moved to discover who and what this Jesus guy was all about.

I spent a lot of effort and time learning all about the Bible, and its message. There was a lot of solid information regarding the historical nature of the events recounted in the Bible. As I studied the Bible I discovered that God wanted people to use their minds to understand Him and His ways; rather than to try to be religious, which does not save anyone. By studying the Bible I learned that God is perfect and totally good, man is not. As a sinner there was a penalty, which was death. Beyond just physical death, but a permanent eternal separation from God because God cannot let anything that is imperfect to be with Him. However, God had a plan to save me. Because I didn't have the power to save myself from my sin, He sent down His Son, Jesus the Christ to die and to be my death for my sin-debt. By putting my trust and faith in Jesus' work, His death on the cross 2000 years ago, I am free, once and for all, and have been reconciled to a right relationship with God.

With my newfound trust and faith in Jesus Christ I passed from death to life. I found my life changing all around me. I was no longer afraid of being forgotten because I was known by God. Instead of trying to live a moral life just to please people, I had a reason for doing what I always thought was right. I even had a complete way of understanding the world around me without making assumptions about things as scientists are forced to do. Although its difficult to quantify, I had a joy and peace about life that I had never experienced. Everyday I see more and more of God’s presence and blessings in my life. Although I am by no means perfect, I can see how God is working daily to make me more like Him. Best of all is that I know that I have eternal life in relation with God in heaven.

[/spoil:ddb92cb7c9]

Hehe, look, I even used your "hidden content" trick.

[Smilingeyes]

Hello Minde. It certainly seems like Ej-Te but I don't think one can be absolutely sure of the temperament. Only the Thinking part seems really clear.

Hello. Why wouldn't one be sure of the temperament? Because temperaments are unsure things? Or because I failed to fully describe the man? Or perhaps something else?

I think the thinking preference was very clear and consistent but I thought there were few things that could give evidence as to the temperament or the N vs. S preference. What was given does somewhat suggest Ej temperament but I don't feel the typing is iron-clad. As to whether ENTj or ESTj I think the hints thus far are very weak and of course find that the two being so close to each other anyway, the distinction might be even irrelevant.

Happy to see you again.

Is that so?

I'm slightly distraught by this comment. During our last conversation you suggested that I was taking too much with the forum and giving our discussions too much importance. I followed your advice and concentrated on my clinical work for a while. It was good advice and I'm thankful for it. Our conversations were always pleasant and gave benefit to both of us. Can you explain to me what is vexing you?

[UDP]

I'm not sure this has much to do with determining his personality, but I thought you, UDP, might find his short autobiography at least a little interesting, especially if you two do end up being similar in type.

[spoil:07b1b65755]

I grew up in a split-up family in the rural coastal town of Tillamook in western Oregon. Neither of my parents ever really went to church. Growing up I attached myself to science and mathematics. I quickly studied and accepted a natural explanation of everything that had ever happened. I was a sharp atheist and in high school I actively attacked those who clung to any mind-numbing "religion". I was always ready to use reason, and logic, and all that science had theorized in this attack.

While in high school I thought that I was basically a "good guy". I never got involved with drugs and I received good grades in school. However I had no reason to be a moral person, other than to make people think more of me. I had no purpose at all in life, so took this along with the fear that I would be forgotten and I invented my own purpose, to make a name for myself. I had always wanted to be an astronaut and I decided since everyone knows of Neil Armstrong, the first man on the moon, I would become the first man on Mars, to make a name for myself.

My senior year a good friend of mine from a volunteer program (outdoor school) died of sudden kidney failure. One of the last times I spoke to him he had shared some of his story and how Jesus had made an impact. I was moved to discover who and what this Jesus guy was all about.

I spent a lot of effort and time learning all about the Bible, and its message. There was a lot of solid information regarding the historical nature of the events recounted in the Bible. As I studied the Bible I discovered that God wanted people to use their minds to understand Him and His ways; rather than to try to be religious, which does not save anyone. By studying the Bible I learned that God is perfect and totally good, man is not. As a sinner there was a penalty, which was death. Beyond just physical death, but a permanent eternal separation from God because God cannot let anything that is imperfect to be with Him. However, God had a plan to save me. Because I didn't have the power to save myself from my sin, He sent down His Son, Jesus the Christ to die and to be my death for my sin-debt. By putting my trust and faith in Jesus' work, His death on the cross 2000 years ago, I am free, once and for all, and have been reconciled to a right relationship with God.

With my newfound trust and faith in Jesus Christ I passed from death to life. I found my life changing all around me. I was no longer afraid of being forgotten because I was known by God. Instead of trying to live a moral life just to please people, I had a reason for doing what I always thought was right. I even had a complete way of understanding the world around me without making assumptions about things as scientists are forced to do. Although its difficult to quantify, I had a joy and peace about life that I had never experienced. Everyday I see more and more of God’s presence and blessings in my life. Although I am by no means perfect, I can see how God is working daily to make me more like Him. Best of all is that I know that I have eternal life in relation with God in heaven.

[/spoil:07b1b65755]

Hehe, look, I even used your "hidden content" trick.

A little more wrapped up in traditional Christian dogma than I personally would prefer, but I can sort of relate. I did everything on my own, however. That is to say, someone coming to me and telling me a touching story about how their beliefs affected them has not moved me in the past - that does not mean I have no respect for such things, of course. It does not matter if someone brings up Christianity to me or Islam - my own views are what they are. (I am wary about saying "Yes, this person and I have the same views! - mostly because mine are "complex" to most people it seems, but also out of an extremely rigid sincerity that comes along with saying "this is what I believe"). Honestly I was turned off to religion for some time because people DID come to me and say how great it was, but they just seemed like liars preaching something they contradicted left and right in their real life. Holy people who went to church, and praised the lord, and then when it was done, just going about their other wants and personal likings with them being able to tell themselves "I'm fine, I went to church today"... and so on. However, now I have more sympathy for people because as in my own life.... knowing what to do is much easier than doing it all the time. I just pmed you about this actually.


But in all reality if it works for him to use that verbiage and it allows him to connect spiritually better, then it does not matter much what my own personal opinion is - he is moving towards an noble goal. If he is seeking to bring The Kingdom of Heaven to earth, then bless him for it.

His biography does not really say anything about his type in my opinion, perhaps that he favors "T" somehow, but that is more doing things the MBTI way.

[Minde]

I think the thinking preference was very clear and consistent but I thought there were few things that could give evidence as to the temperament or the N vs. S preference. What was given does somewhat suggest Ej temperament but I don't feel the typing is iron-clad. As to whether ENTj or ESTj I think the hints thus far are very weak and of course find that the two being so close to each other anyway, the distinction might be even irrelevant.

Well, I'll admit it was a rather short description, particularly in light of others I've produced. If I may ask, what sort of information would you require to make a decision on temperament?

I'm slightly distraught by this comment. During our last conversation you suggested that I was taking too much with the forum and giving our discussions too much importance. I followed your advice and concentrated on my clinical work for a while. It was good advice and I'm thankful for it. Our conversations were always pleasant and gave benefit to both of us. Can you explain to me what is vexing you?

You left without a word of explanation, even though I asked. It occurred to me that you had taken that advice, but that was only one option out of the many that my active imagination conjured as reasons for your sudden inexplicable absence. Each option in my mind produced it's own emotion or combination of emotions, which all conglomerated into the type of mess that sets me into a peevish or, as you put it, vexed mood. Thus the urge to throw a heavy object at your head, which, happily, I have so far resisted.

[Minde]

A little more wrapped up in traditional Christian dogma than I personally would prefer, but I can sort of relate. I did everything on my own, however. That is to say, someone coming to me and telling me a touching story about how their beliefs affected them has not moved me in the past - that does not mean I have no respect for such things, of course. It does not matter if someone brings up Christianity to me or Islam - my own views are what they are. (I am wary about saying "Yes, this person and I have the same views! - mostly because mine are "complex" to most people it seems, but also out of an extremely rigid sincerity that comes along with saying "this is what I believe"). Honestly I was turned off to religion for some time because people DID come to me and say how great it was, but they just seemed like liars preaching something they contradicted left and right in their real life. Holy people who went to church, and praised the lord, and then when it was done, just going about their other wants and personal likings with them being able to tell themselves "I'm fine, I went to church today"... and so on. However, now I have more sympathy for people because as in my own life.... knowing what to do is much easier than doing it all the time. I just pmed you about this actually.


But in all reality if it works for him to use that verbiage and it allows him to connect spiritually better, then it does not matter much what my own personal opinion is - he is moving towards an noble goal. If he is seeking to bring The Kingdom of Heaven to earth, then bless him for it.

His biography does not really say anything about his type in my opinion, perhaps that he favors "T" somehow, but that is more doing things the MBTI way.

I didn't share that to say anything, just... I don't know really. I just saw a few small similarities and thought you might find a passing interest. Anyway, yes, I'll reply to your pm after I've processed it a little. I will say this, though - that hypocrisy thing is very bad, and if you (or anyone else) catches me in such behavior, you have my permission to severely reprimand me.

[Smilingeyes]

Well, I'll admit it was a rather short description, particularly in light of others I've produced. If I may ask, what sort of information would you require to make a decision on temperament?

What does it seem like he is trying to do when you converse? What appears to be his purpose of action?

You left without a word of explanation, even though I asked. It occurred to me that you had taken that advice, but that was only one option out of the many that my active imagination conjured as reasons for your sudden inexplicable absence. Each option in my mind produced it's own emotion or combination of emotions, which all conglomerated into the type of mess that sets me into a peevish or, as you put it, vexed mood. Thus the urge to throw a heavy object at your head, which, happily, I have so far resisted.

I'm very glad of your emotional fortitude in this matter. I take it that you hoped I hadn't followed your suggestion quite so earnestly. Now I'm not fully sure of the reasons you originally made the suggestion but as it worked out fine for me and apparently at an emotional cost to you, I feel indebted. Is there something I can do to cure this dark humour that ails you?

[Minde]

What does it seem like he is trying to do when you converse?

Um, explain things to me. (That may be because I'm asking for it, though.) He seems to be trying to help me.

What appears to be his purpose of action?

That's harder. To do well, I think. For example, when we worked together, one of his jobs was photographer. He would do all sorts of crazy and creative things to get good pictures, like take his thousand-dollar camera into the middle of a water fight. Although, even though it seemed crazy to observers, he actually was pretty careful and everything turned out nicely in the end.

I'm very glad of your emotional fortitude in this matter. I take it that you hoped I hadn't followed your suggestion quite so earnestly.

Actually, I hoped you weren't dead or something like that.

Now I'm not fully sure of the reasons you originally made the suggestion but as it worked out fine for me and apparently at an emotional cost to you, I feel indebted. Is there something I can do to cure this dark humour that ails you?

Don't leave in the middle of a conversation again without at least telling me why. There are probably other things, too, but that's the best one I can think of at the moment.

[Smilingeyes]

What does it seem like he is trying to do when you converse?

Um, explain things to me. (That may be because I'm asking for it, though.) He seems to be trying to help me.

Well each temperament has a sort of basic way to achieve profit:
IJ = to take charge, to maintain preferrable activity in all circumstance, to turn things they don't like into things they like to do something with
EP = to take initiative, to accomplish things by themselves without fear of consequences
IP = to outmaneuver, to avoid the pushing done by others and use their force for a counter-push
EJ = to outperform, to gain advantage through doing what others need to get done and by finding uses for the things they get paid with
Thinking is sort of the most obvious way these emerge so I'd expect this difference to come out somewhat clear.
In my experience IJ and EJ types give the implication that they are trying to help someone, EJs moreso.

What appears to be his purpose of action?

That's harder. To do well, I think. For example, when we worked together, one of his jobs was photographer. He would do all sorts of crazy and creative things to get good pictures, like take his thousand-dollar camera into the middle of a water fight. Although, even though it seemed crazy to observers, he actually was pretty careful and everything turned out nicely in the end.

Ok, that might be an indication of extroversion if doing that kind of things in general is typical of him. But not necessarily, there might be some other pattern to it. Either way, these things raise the probability of Ej, the latter part also raises the probability of S>N.

Actually, I hoped you weren't dead or something like that.

This has always confused me. To be aggressive towards someone for the possibility that they might be dead. Well, either way, I'm very happy that you were hoping that I wasn't dead and not that I was.

Don't leave in the middle of a conversation again without at least telling me why. There are probably other things, too, but that's the best one I can think of at the moment.

I guess I can only promise that I will make more of an effort in the future. It's possible that there might be forcing circumstances. Promises to do something finite are always so much easier to keep than promises that bind one to infinity. But it's a small promise to make. I'll really really try not to cause you such uncertainty in the future.

Thing is. It's also true that I did cut a bond between us. But it's also true that I only did it because I perceived that you did it first. And I guess that was a wise decision as well. I flirted with you but we did know that differences of lifestyle and location would prevent it from going anywhere. And it's not wise to hang around with something that causes temptation one can't handle. I had to cut that idea from myself and the time off did me good. I hope we can build another kind of relation between us, based more on respect, amity and mutual history rather than the kind of innuendo that existed. But whether this is possible, I need you to tell me. Finally I feel the need to once again thank you for talking with to me through a difficult period. Also, thank you for the painting.

[Minde]

What does it seem like he is trying to do when you converse?

Um, explain things to me. (That may be because I'm asking for it, though.) He seems to be trying to help me.

Well each temperament has a sort of basic way to achieve profit:
IJ = to take charge, to maintain preferrable activity in all circumstance, to turn things they don't like into things they like to do something with
EP = to take initiative, to accomplish things by themselves without fear of consequences
IP = to outmaneuver, to avoid the pushing done by others and use their force for a counter-push
EJ = to outperform, to gain advantage through doing what others need to get done and by finding uses for the things they get paid with
Thinking is sort of the most obvious way these emerge so I'd expect this difference to come out somewhat clear.
In my experience IJ and EJ types give the implication that they are trying to help someone, EJs moreso.

What appears to be his purpose of action?

That's harder. To do well, I think. For example, when we worked together, one of his jobs was photographer. He would do all sorts of crazy and creative things to get good pictures, like take his thousand-dollar camera into the middle of a water fight. Although, even though it seemed crazy to observers, he actually was pretty careful and everything turned out nicely in the end.

Ok, that might be an indication of extroversion if doing that kind of things in general is typical of him. But not necessarily, there might be some other pattern to it. Either way, these things raise the probability of Ej, the latter part also raises the probability of S>N.

Thank you. I am going to leave this topic for the moment, though I may have more questions later if you don't mind and if you're around at the time.