Differences between ESE-ESFj and EIE-ENFj

[mr_maguoo]

Hey this has probably been covered somewhere else but how can you distinguish an ENFj from an ESFj?

[Jarno]

easy,

ESFJ are more submissive, service orientated for the group
ENFJ are leader types of the group, proud of themselves

oh and ENFJ's have a more developed language.

[Joy]

I wouldn't call ESFjs "submissive". They are more concerned with helping and taking care of others than ENFjs are though.

[UDP]

Does he look like a bitch?

[FDG]

ESFjs are generally friendlier, they can be a bit annoying, they usually mean well, they're generally talkative and enthousiastic, some problems with boundaries

ENFjs are more intellectual, they make a lot of gestures while talking, usually very connected socially

[XoX]

Does he look like a bitch?

Which type would that be? And what exactly do you mean by "bitch" here?

[Jarno]

isn't that the phrase from the movie pulp fiction in which an ENFJ says this?

[UDP]

Correct.

[UDP]

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=lNlePuVM3Ic[/youtube]

[Expat]

Hey this has probably been covered somewhere else but how can you distinguish an ENFj from an ESFj?

They are both active, but the ESFj finds it easier to relax; the ENFj will seem more agitated and in a hurry. But you have to observe them for some time to spot this difference.

[lefty]

Hey this has probably been covered somewhere else but how can you distinguish an ENFj from an ESFj?

I had an experience on the subway where I got in, noticed a toughish looking, well dressed woman kind of being very assertive and I tried to stare her down, but felt matched and stopped doing it. Eventually the train go very packed and I couldnt' take it anymore so I said "Can I get out?" and she actually took my lead in that, but once off the train someone was standing in the way and I just stood there and sighed and she said "excuse me" very firmly and stepped through.

So I think an ESFJ is sharper and more socially adept in many ways to an ENFJ, but that an ENFJ can take a leadership role socially, but may lack the assertion or analysis of the ESFJ. An ESFJ can be very congenial, but also very cold and exacting where I think ENFJs just become more regressive and out of control and harsh under stress. I think ESFJs have a better shot in life not to say an ENFJ can't also be successful I just think the ESFJs would fare better, generally, in an ivy league setting than an ENFJ, but that's some subjective ideation there.

[Wittmont]

ESFjs are generally friendlier, they can be a bit annoying, they usually mean well, they're generally talkative and enthousiastic, some problems with boundaries

ENFjs are more intellectual, they make a lot of gestures while talking, usually very connected socially

Yup the ESFj's I know never stop talking ever, there may be a brief lull before they batter you verbally again. They are nice and well meaning but they can drive (introvert) people nuts.

I know one ENFj and she is a polymath with an IQ in the stratosphere somewhere. She has like three, maybe it was four, academic degrees (or would if she could be bothered wrapping up two of them doing minor exams, she just studies constantly for her own amusement), she writes her own music and records it, writes books for her own amusement, speaks several languages, she knows lots of people, people tend to find her quite fascinating but she can be very private too. She is a talker too but not in an annoying fashion.

[idealistichick]

Its kind of funny because there is this girl that me and my friend thought was ENFj and it turns out she was ESFj. She is always talking and is concerned about the welfare of others. She is pretty annoying because she is so friendly. She tries to get everyone to get together and hang out. Overall people like her and she is a friendly person. I realized that I can be flat out bitchy around others which is one quality that I would like to change about myself. I'm pretty friendly but I'm too quiet at the same time. I really would like to see an INTp come and criticize her hehe

[Blaze]

EIE: more dramatic, seeks power.

ESE: more comforting, seeks expansion.

[FDG]

EIE: more dramatic, seeks power.

ESE: more comforting, seeks expansion.

Yea

[Jarno]

Talk about the fact that when methane is found on an extraterestial planet it gives a rough clue that life is possible on that planet.

Or talk about how the big bang started the universe and that a big crunch could be it's end.

The type that runs away first when you say this stuff is the ESE.

[redbaron]

Talk about the fact that when methane is found on an extraterestial planet it gives a rough clue that life is possible on that planet.

Or talk about how the big bang started the universe and that a big crunch could be it's end.

The type that runs away first when you say this stuff is the ESE.

yes.

[tiny_dancer]

Hmm... now I just need some test subjects... mmmmwahahahaha!

[implied]

Talk about the fact that when methane is found on an extraterestial planet it gives a rough clue that life is possible on that planet.

Or talk about how the big bang started the universe and that a big crunch could be it's end.

The type that runs away first when you say this stuff is the ESE.

yes.

seriously? i want stories. i thought ENTp was pretty likely to talk about this kind of stuff.

[redbaron]

Talk about the fact that when methane is found on an extraterestial planet it gives a rough clue that life is possible on that planet.

Or talk about how the big bang started the universe and that a big crunch could be it's end.

The type that runs away first when you say this stuff is the ESE.

yes.

seriously? i want stories. i thought ENTp was pretty likely to talk about this kind of stuff.

ESE = ESFj (not ENTp) So the point being that ESEs don't like talking about those types of things as much as EIEs (ENFj). I do think ENTps would enjoy that stuff, lol

[implied]

Talk about the fact that when methane is found on an extraterestial planet it gives a rough clue that life is possible on that planet.

Or talk about how the big bang started the universe and that a big crunch could be it's end.

The type that runs away first when you say this stuff is the ESE.

yes.

seriously? i want stories. i thought ENTp was pretty likely to talk about this kind of stuff.

ESE = ESFj (not ENTp) So the point being that ESEs don't like talking about those types of things as much as EIEs (ENFj). I do think ENTps would enjoy that stuff, lol

ah, i know that ESE is ESFj, EIE = ENFj, etc. what i was saying -- wouldn't this sort of strain the relationship between an ESE and an ILE? i dunno, my ENTp astronomy professor talked about nothing but this stuff. probably partially because he was an astronomer (and batshit crazy,) but yeah. i suppose eventually if you put him in a room with an ESE the ESE might like his intelligence and eventually look for someone more grounded & rational. how this is more of an INTj trait, i'm not sure.

[Megan]

I think that it is more a sensor vs intuitive thing rather than a quadra thing, there just seem to be so much stressing on quadras here sometimes. Intuitives regardless of quadra etc tend to be more interested in certain kinds of topics and sensors in certain others. The MBTI people were right at least on that point I think.

And about ESFjs not being interested in power, I think based on my experience that that is quite wrong. Some ESFjs including my manager at work do actively seek power and positions of power and seem to like being in charge of other people a lot, sometimes in a rather intrusive, clinging and suffocating way though I think they kinda mean well most times.
It seems ESFjs have this idea that other people cannot take care of or direct themselves and so they engage in a ton of unsolicited caring giving and feel unappreciated and abused when one cannot really appreciate it. Personally I think the drive for power, leadership and control of others is often abnormally strong in ESXj types.

[Megan]

To answer the question form my perspective

ESFjs seem friendlier, more casual and far more down to earth and just more warm and comforting or something. ESFjs are more practical in their caring usually(An ESFj is very likely to be seen making the chicken soup for the little old lady next door who is ill).


ENFjs seem less friendly, more formal and up there somewhere, more detached, , more interested in things like writing and psychology. ENFjs are more globally humanitarian and political in their caring, ENFjs will not usually be seen making chicken soup for the little old lady next door, they are more interested in things like having a big campaign to raise money to end world hunger or something wider like that.

On their movements, ENFjs are not like ENTjs, ENFjs move in a deliberate and unhurried way most times and do look slow and very relaxed like that description over at socionics.com says. If you seem them moving quickly they are either very stressed or attending to some great concern. However, they can look "unnatural" or even somewhat dead (think David Bowie or Nicole Kidman) or just lacking in alertness. ESFjs look very, very alert most times, they also seem really energetic and alive and just more natural in movement.

[redbaron]

that seems right.

[XoX]

To implied:
ESFjs do appreciate ENTp Ne and Ti but imho they want the ENTp to apply them to problems which the ESFj actually cares about. So if the ESFj is not interested in astronomy he/she will not be interested in an ENTp who only talks about astronomy. Instead the ESFj will likely try to direct the ENTp attention away from astronomy and to the issues the ESFj considers as important. I have seen this happening with ESFj-INTj pair at work. The INTj always goes off tangents and starts to analyze who knows what weird and imaginary stuff but the ESFj rolls eyes or laughs and immediately redirects the INTj back to thinking about the problems which the ESFj wants solved.

[machintruc]

ESE's need more stimulation and are interested mostly by very concrete content, just like SEE's.

EIE's need very little stimulation and seem interested by everything, like IEE's do.

EIE women are more stereotypical of the notion of "weaker sex".

ESE's are more leading, initiating than EIE's. EIE's are more zealous, but lack initiative (!).

EIE's are more likely to get depressed than ESE's.

[Jarno]

I have seen this happening with ESFj-INTj pair at work. The INTj always goes off tangents and starts to analyze who knows what weird and imaginary stuff but the ESFj rolls eyes or laughs and immediately redirects the INTj back to thinking about the problems which the ESFj wants solved.

Yep, I've seen this in an INTP-ESFP duality too.

[lefty]

I have seen this happening with ESFj-INTj pair at work. The INTj always goes off tangents and starts to analyze who knows what weird and imaginary stuff but the ESFj rolls eyes or laughs and immediately redirects the INTj back to thinking about the problems which the ESFj wants solved.

Yep, I've seen this in an INTP-ESFP duality too.

that's a really neat description of duality.

[Ms. Kensington]

EIE: more dramatic, seeks power.

ESE: more comforting, seeks expansion.

what do you mean, expansion?

[Ms. Kensington]

And about ESFjs not being interested in power, I think based on my experience that that is quite wrong. Some ESFjs including my manager at work do actively seek power and positions of power and seem to like being in charge of other people a lot, sometimes in a rather intrusive, clinging and suffocating way though I think they kinda mean well most times.
It seems ESFjs have this idea that other people cannot take care of or direct themselves and so they engage in a ton of unsolicited caring giving and feel unappreciated and abused when one cannot really appreciate it. Personally I think the drive for power, leadership and control of others is often abnormally strong in ESXj types.

this is interesting.

my experiences generally follow what others have posted. I think i most notice that ENFjs come off as more dramatic to me and more interested in intellectualism, power maybe in the form of name dropping. But the name dropping might just be an attention to detail.. i do think that they might have a tendency to dramaticize their efforts (writing a book that will change the world) and an ESFj might dramaticize their emotions or interpersonal slights.. maybe complaining about some rude behavior?

It's interesting yes, that they do seem quite similar in attraction to powerful managerial roles.

[Creepy-pokeball]

ESFjs are generally friendlier, they can be a bit annoying, they usually mean well, they're generally talkative and enthousiastic, some problems with boundaries

ENFjs are more intellectual, they make a lot of gestures while talking, usually very connected socially

Yes, exactly. Thanks for not using buzz words, too, d00d

I think they way I would put it is that ESFjs are overly attached and ENFjs are overly detached (in the general sense of things).

[Creepy-pokeball]

I think that it is more a sensor vs intuitive thing rather than a quadra thing, there just seem to be so much stressing on quadras here sometimes. Intuitives regardless of quadra etc tend to be more interested in certain kinds of topics and sensors in certain others. The MBTI people were right at least on that point I think.

And about ESFjs not being interested in power, I think based on my experience that that is quite wrong. Some ESFjs including my manager at work do actively seek power and positions of power and seem to like being in charge of other people a lot, sometimes in a rather intrusive, clinging and suffocating way though I think they kinda mean well most times.
It seems ESFjs have this idea that other people cannot take care of or direct themselves and so they engage in a ton of unsolicited caring giving and feel unappreciated and abused when one cannot really appreciate it. Personally I think the drive for power, leadership and control of others is often abnormally strong in ESXj types.

The 2 ESFjs in my personal life can be really socially aggressive, demanding. It bothers me, so I ignore them.

[jewels]

My take on ESFJs vs. ENFJs...(note: I'm ENFP so that colors my understanding of these types)

I've noticed that ESFJs tend to be more forcefull in taking care of other's in a physical way (cooking, cleaning, organizing your fridge, etc.) They try to make jokes, often physical humor that reminds me of Robin Williams, which can make some seem a bit dorky, but they will sacrifice themselves for the "humor." They seem compelled to make others "comfortable" and come across to me as supportive of people's emotional and physical states, whether or not their "help" is actually an annoyance. It's like they can't rest until you are comfortable, fed, and laughing.

ENFJs will be more foreceful in getting you to agree with whatever big picture thing they are trying to convince you of (getting you to recycle, support some sort of humanitarian effort, sign up for a committee, etc.) You don't have a choice -- you will be forced to agree. If you disagree they will really take delight in verbally attacking you until you are "convinced" and then they will remember your disobediance forever, and bring it up for years to come. They will apply pressure as if you "should" do it, or are obligated to. They also use the imperative form more -- take the trash out, you need to pay the bill, you should call them. But it's said under a veil of social niceties, "Oh I really care about X, and I'm soooo sorry to have to ask you to do this, but we have to get X done now -- so please do impossible task #23 right now (it's implied you will be killed otherwise). Actually, the female ENFJs I've known have been more like this, and the males less likely to care if you disagree.

[ScarlettLux]

My take on ESFJs vs. ENFJs...(note: I'm ENFP so that colors my understanding of these types)

I've noticed that ESFJs tend to be more forcefull in taking care of other's in a physical way (cooking, cleaning, organizing your fridge, etc.) They try to make jokes, often physical humor that reminds me of Robin Williams, which can make some seem a bit dorky, but they will sacrifice themselves for the "humor." They seem compelled to make others "comfortable" and come across to me as supportive of people's emotional and physical states, whether or not their "help" is actually an annoyance. It's like they can't rest until you are comfortable, fed, and laughing.

ENFJs will be more foreceful in getting you to agree with whatever big picture thing they are trying to convince you of (getting you to recycle, support some sort of humanitarian effort, sign up for a committee, etc.) You don't have a choice -- you will be forced to agree. If you disagree they will really take delight in verbally attacking you until you are "convinced" and then they will remember your disobediance forever, and bring it up for years to come. They will apply pressure as if you "should" do it, or are obligated to. They also use the imperative form more -- take the trash out, you need to pay the bill, you should call them. But it's said under a veil of social niceties, "Oh I really care about X, and I'm soooo sorry to have to ask you to do this, but we have to get X done now -- so please do impossible task #23 right now (it's implied you will be killed otherwise). Actually, the female ENFJs I've known have been more like this, and the males less likely to care if you disagree.

LOLOLOLOL

[Exodus]

easy,

ESFJ are more submissive, service orientated for the group
ENFJ are leader types of the group, proud of themselves

I actually agree with this. ENFjs are far more concerned with being leaders (and probably the most of any type).

[bibliophile8]

ENFJs will be more foreceful in getting you to agree with whatever big picture thing they are trying to convince you of (getting you to recycle, support some sort of humanitarian effort, sign up for a committee, etc.) You don't have a choice -- you will be forced to agree. If you disagree they will really take delight in verbally attacking you until you are "convinced" and then they will remember your disobediance forever, and bring it up for years to come. They will apply pressure as if you "should" do it, or are obligated to. They also use the imperative form more -- take the trash out, you need to pay the bill, you should call them. But it's said under a veil of social niceties, "Oh I really care about X, and I'm soooo sorry to have to ask you to do this, but we have to get X done now -- so please do impossible task #23 right now (it's implied you will be killed otherwise). Actually, the female ENFJs I've known have been more like this, and the males less likely to care if you disagree.

Have you had some bad experiences with EIEs? Reading your description makes me want to abandon all socionic hope for happiness. Since EIE is my dual.

[bibliophile8]

I know one ENFj and she is a polymath with an IQ in the stratosphere somewhere. She has like three, maybe it was four, academic degrees (or would if she could be bothered wrapping up two of them doing minor exams, she just studies constantly for her own amusement), she writes her own music and records it, writes books for her own amusement, speaks several languages, she knows lots of people, people tend to find her quite fascinating but she can be very private too. She is a talker too but not in an annoying fashion.

But this sounds like everything I want to do with my life, with limited success so far. Is that duality?

(Sorry for the double post.)

[jewels]

Have you had some bad experiences with EIEs? Reading your description makes me want to abandon all socionic hope for happiness. Since EIE is my dual.

Don't abandon your socionics hope! lol. The things that bothered me about those particular ENFJs, I don't think would bother an ISTJ at all. An ISTJ would have described the situation completely differently I think, and would have thought I was strange to take offense to a nice person trying to promote recycling for the good of the planet, you know?

You're right that it may have been the particular ENFJs I knew. I have met others who were nice. And Oprah. She is very likeable and I can't imagine anyone not being able to get along well with her.

[bibliophile8]

An ISTJ would have described the situation completely differently I think, and would have thought I was strange to take offense to a nice person trying to promote recycling for the good of the planet, you know?

I guess I can see that. But it all depends on the cause, of course.

You're right that it may have been the particular ENFJs I knew. I have met others who were nice. And Oprah. She is very likeable and I can't imagine anyone not being able to get along well with her.

Oprah makes my skin crawl. Some talk show hosts do that to me. It's a lot worse for news anchors and reporters. They seem so fake while prying into other people's lives with no actual care for them. If you're going to tell me about the wildfires in California or a some kids in a mineshaft, you should care about it, dammit. My favorite time is when they have a victim's close relative on the air and they keep asking them "How did that feel?" and "That must have been hard." and the interviewee is crying and the reporter plows ahead with more questions. And they wrap it up with their solemn face. "Truly a horrible tragedy. Back to you, Chet."


That may have been a tangent.

[cracka]

Oprah makes my skin crawl. Some talk show hosts do that to me. It's a lot worse for news anchors and reporters. They seem so fake while prying into other people's lives with no actual care for them. If you're going to tell me about the wildfires in California or a some kids in a mineshaft, you should care about it, dammit. My favorite time is when they have a victim's close relative on the air and they keep asking them "How did that feel?" and "That must have been hard." and the interviewee is crying and the reporter plows ahead with more questions. And they wrap it up with their solemn face. "Truly a horrible tragedy. Back to you, Chet."

One could argue that this is part of their job. While it may make sense that a reporter would break down while interviewing a person who's entire family was killed by a drunk driver or some other tragedy... part of being professional is not letting this like this get to you and be able to cover the story, they want people to be thinking about the person's pain at that time, not how much the anchor them self cried about it. I've seen Oprah in the past and I'd say that she shows the most emotion out of any of the talk show hosts, well, other than Ellen Degeneres when that whole dog episode happened.

Although, I do agree that sometimes the reporters are just plain heartless in their pursuit of the story when they just keep, as you said, plowing through questions while the person they are interviewing is distraught. Sometimes those situations call for a little more tact than some of them have.