Differences between ISFj-ESI and ISFp-SEI

[Joy]

What stands out the most?

[Expat]

You mean when you observe them IRL?

ISFps are more jokey, the ISFj-Fis are more serious.

During longer conversations, ISFps try to keep the conversation flowing, avoiding heavy moments and disagreements; ISFjs will be more inclined to exchange actual information. The difference between IP emotion-creating and IJ construct-creating.

[FDG]

The difference between IP emotion-creating and IJ construct-creating.

truth

[Danielle]

ISFp tries to make people feel emotionally comfortable, ISFj may withhold the emotional security other people crave. I.E., my father is an ISFp (I think), and he's almost always light-hearted and jovial with people. He makes the emotional atmosphere a pleasant, comfortable one. My grandmother was an ISFj (I think), and she never tried to make the atmosphere light and pleasant. Especially if she thought someone was in the wrong in some way. My father walks away from conflict and angry feelings. My grandmother stood her ground a lot more. ISFp happier, softer expression. ISFj, often cold, impenetrable, or look like smelled something a little bad. ISFp, big smiles, big laughs. ISFj, smaller smiles, more dignified laughter.

[Jarno]

ISFP's are totally relaxed, even lazy. That's their most obvious trait I would say.

I don't know enough ISFJ's to make a sound statement.

[UDP]

An ISFp is more liable to appear like a hippy, or someone who is totally hedonistic, and generally concerned about having a "cool time" (Si, Fe creative). An ISFj is more liable to appear like someone with a huge stick up their ass, a snob, an "asshole" who will do whatever she wants to get her way (Se creative).

An ISFj is likely to talk shit about how bad someone is behind their back, particularly their flaws.
An ISFp is more likely to talk nice about people, almost all the time. The ISFp will more likely focus on their inability to make someone happy or "properly give care" to the situation.



Also - IME, and perhaps not always, but....

ISFps are always talking about relationships, and usually how bad their own are sucking right now, for whatever reason -- as in, why they are not happy with them.
ISFjs don't talk about their relationships much, and stick to informational bits, although they will readily give demerits against what they see as negative character traits.

ISFps seem much more frequently to change relationships as well (IME).

The above is much more based on individual experience with individual people, so it is less to do with types as a whole, than the above.

[Blaze]

ISFp tries to make people feel emotionally comfortable, ISFj may withhold the emotional security other people crave. I.E., my father is an ISFp (I think), and he's almost always light-hearted and jovial with people. He makes the emotional atmosphere a pleasant, comfortable one. My grandmother was an ISFj (I think), and she never tried to make the atmosphere light and pleasant. Especially if she thought someone was in the wrong in some way. My father walks away from conflict and angry feelings. My grandmother stood her ground a lot more. ISFp happier, softer expression. ISFj, often cold, impenetrable, or look like smelled something a little bad. ISFp, big smiles, big laughs. ISFj, smaller smiles, more dignified laughter.

excellent, right on.

[Blaze]

An ISFp is more liable to appear like a hippy, or someone who is totally hedonistic, and generally concerned about having a "cool time" (Si, Fe creative). An ISFj is more liable to appear like someone with a huge stick up their ass, a snob, an "asshole" who will do whatever she wants to get her way (Se creative).

An ISFj is likely to talk shit about how bad someone is behind their back, particularly their flaws.
An ISFp is more likely to talk nice about people, almost all the time. The ISFp will more likely focus on their inability to make someone happy or "properly give care" to the situation.



Also - IME, and perhaps not always, but....

ISFps are always talking about relationships, and usually how bad their own are sucking right now, for whatever reason -- as in, why they are not happy with them.
ISFjs don't talk about their relationships much, and stick to informational bits, although they will readily give demerits against what they see as negative character traits.

ISFps seem much more frequently to change relationships as well (IME).

The above is much more based on individual experience with individual people, so it is less to do with types as a whole, than the above.

and you no longer think you're alpha? *shrugs*

[FDG]

ISFjs don't talk about relationships only when they're going bad. Watch it as a signal.

ISFjs can be loners when out of their main social setting. They can stand long periods - I mean, one week - of lack of social interaction. They can be dowright snobbish also in their choices of who to talk. I haven't met many ISFjs with a "stick up their ass", I think they just stand out more. The low-key, happier, family-oriented kind of ISFj is more easily overlooked. The first one is stereotypically cold, the second one can *resemble* an ISFp in many ways because they are open with their laughter/etc. Only, you will often hear the IJ innuendo "why do I suck so much". That's a good tell-tale.

ISFps generally are far more social, they easly get to know new people. That's the Fp vs Fj emotivism vs constructivism. ISFps can have an equally developed willpower as an ISFj, not type related. ISFps have a wider circle of friends. ISFp's have also a wider wardrobe, usually. They don't like strong physical exercise - for example, when playing football they always avoid running if not necessary. They're generally very relaxed and have a very steady work rythm, something I truly envy. ISFp males are also pretty good with girls, usually.

Comparisons: ISFjs are more physically active, and responsive to invitations at being physically active. ISFjs are far more critical of fashion than ISFps. ISFjs are generally rather worrisome when they lack the right amount of Te and Ni. ISFps never seem to be worrisome to me. Neither type is particularly inclined to behind-the-back gossip, when healthy. They are both IxFx though, so you will hear both discussing the relationships between people. They like to share their analysis of the situations.

Both types have hedonistic streaks, but ISFps will rarely feel guilty about it, whereas an ISFj will worry that she's going to miss the next day due to the hungover. Generally, ISFjs have better grades than ISFps. ISFps more easily though find their way professionally, whereas ISFjs are far pickier and idealistic (Fe doesn't seek Te advice, whereas Fi does).

A striking difference in first impression is that most of the time ISFjs can appear thinking types, whereas ISFps rarely do. This is the role function speaking, of course. Beware that thinking type doesn't mean cold.

[Mea]

An ISFp is more likely to talk nice about people, almost all the time.

Not entirely true.
I know an ISFp who is always whining about something, even people. When he's with me, he always telling me how bad his day was, how his boss was in the office today, and that gave him stress, etc. And he kinda expects me to find solutions to his problems. Most annoying.
Of course not all ISFps are like that.

[FDG]

An ISFp is more likely to talk nice about people, almost all the time.

Not entirely true.
I know an ISFp who is always whining about something, even people. When he's with me, he always telling me how bad his day was, how his boss was in the office today, and that gave him stress, etc. And he kinda expects me to find solutions to his problems. Most annoying.
Of course not all ISFps are like that.

Yeah those are unhealthy type trait, not really type related.

[implied]

An ISFp is more likely to talk nice about people, almost all the time.

Not entirely true.
I know an ISFp who is always whining about something, even people. When he's with me, he always telling me how bad his day was, how his boss was in the office today, and that gave him stress, etc. And he kinda expects me to find solutions to his problems. Most annoying.
Of course not all ISFps are like that.

lol, yes, i agree. i know an ISFp who is very very much like this. lots of discussions of roommate problems and such.

[Expat]

ISFjs don't talk about relationships only when they're going bad. Watch it as a signal.

ISFjs can be loners when out of their main social setting. They can stand long periods - I mean, one week - of lack of social interaction. They can be dowright snobbish also in their choices of who to talk. I haven't met many ISFjs with a "stick up their ass", I think they just stand out more. The low-key, happier, family-oriented kind of ISFj is more easily overlooked. The first one is stereotypically cold, the second one can *resemble* an ISFp in many ways because they are open with their laughter/etc. Only, you will often hear the IJ innuendo "why do I suck so much". That's a good tell-tale.

ISFps generally are far more social, they easly get to know new people. That's the Fp vs Fj emotivism vs constructivism. ISFps can have an equally developed willpower as an ISFj, not type related. ISFps have a wider circle of friends. ISFp's have also a wider wardrobe, usually. They don't like strong physical exercise - for example, when playing football they always avoid running if not necessary. They're generally very relaxed and have a very steady work rythm, something I truly envy. ISFp males are also pretty good with girls, usually.

Comparisons: ISFjs are more physically active, and responsive to invitations at being physically active. ISFjs are far more critical of fashion than ISFps. ISFjs are generally rather worrisome when they lack the right amount of Te and Ni. ISFps never seem to be worrisome to me. Neither type is particularly inclined to behind-the-back gossip, when healthy. They are both IxFx though, so you will hear both discussing the relationships between people. They like to share their analysis of the situations.

Both types have hedonistic streaks, but ISFps will rarely feel guilty about it, whereas an ISFj will worry that she's going to miss the next day due to the hungover. Generally, ISFjs have better grades than ISFps. ISFps more easily though find their way professionally, whereas ISFjs are far pickier and idealistic (Fe doesn't seek Te advice, whereas Fi does).

A striking difference in first impression is that most of the time ISFjs can appear thinking types, whereas ISFps rarely do. This is the role function speaking, of course. Beware that thinking type doesn't mean cold.

These are very good observations -- not sure if I agree with all of it, but over 90% at least.

[EllaC]

Any ideas? It's just my Dad seems like an ISFp, perhaps... but that's my dual, and up until recently we've always argued. Also, ISFps, as friends, started out well, but then always we both move on as something goes wrong and I don't feel that whole comfort thing, and hmm... I'm just wondering whether my typing is wrong. I'm not the best at it!

[confused84]

Its possible.

Tell us more about your Father and some your Isfp friends you have falling outs with.

[Joy]

What are the main differences between ISFj/ISFp?

LIEs and ILEs

[EllaC]

Its possible.

Tell us more about your Father and some your Isfp friends you have falling outs with.

Dunno, my Dad didn't live up to my standards, i.e. wanting to better himself, having nice habbits/ good public front, sounds shallow, but that's the way it was!

My friends, well we got along so well, I remember thinking about two of them:
a) Okay, that may sound weird to others, but it doesn't bother me at all! Why do I not want to change this person?
b) Wow, that's the most effective shopping trip I've ever had, lol, we were so efficient, I'd never noticed that about shopping with anyone else.

But on both occassions I felt let down, they moved on, and I being my loyal self thought, these are good finds, I will stick by them. I don't understand.

[EllaC]

LIEs and ILEs

Right...

[JRiddy]

I find that the easiest way to sort out J/P is static vs. dynamic. I find this relatively hard to do over the net, but reasonably easy in person after some exposure.

SEIs (ISFps) will focus on the manner in which things are expressed and done. They have a very "flowing" kind of behavior, and seem to be attuned to what is happening, although sometimes they ironically appear detached. They only rarely seem expansive, and tend to be more aware of the way they and others are feeling and how they are experiencing things, rather than what things cause those feelings or what objects define their experience. Although they are capable of the latter, they tend to avoid it too much because it is kinda boring to them. They tend to be involved in activities where the manner and style of performance is important, and attempt to create harmony in most things. They are typically receptive to ideas that help them expand their awareness and provide possibilities for them. They are angered and frustrated by a focus on work processes and extended cause and effect.

ESIs (ISFjs) are aware primarily of the attitudes of others and the objects that cause certain attitudes and responses. To me, their overall behavior and movement appears more "angular", although this is highly subjective. They can be very direct when provoked or convicted, but usually seem polite and self-assured in a nonchalant manner, as opposed to the more spontaneous "warmth" of the SEI. They usually describe things in terms of orientation toward an object, person, or goal. Though they can be expressive and understand emotional displays well, they get tired of it, and prefer more to find the inner feelings of attraction and repulsion. They often have a strong regard for loyalty, and know how to exact loyalty in the right conditions, and excite people to an ethical goal. They are enchanted by a solid understanding of the ways in which things can be accomplished and the manner in which events lead to one another. They are skeptical of and frustrated by ideas that seem to have little basis in reality, and little application to ethical goals. They are often found in activities that require a great deal of consistency and devotion, and require quick and pragmatic ethical judgements. It is my hypothesis that they invented accounting.

I hope this helps. It takes a while to get a "feel" for it, and even then it's not perfect. I know I'm not. Good luck!

[strrrng]

ella, I think your typing is right, just based off of your style of writing.

[FDG]

I find that the easiest way to sort out J/P is static vs. dynamic. I find this relatively hard to do over the net, but reasonably easy in person after some exposure.

SEIs (ISFps) will focus on the manner in which things are expressed and done. They have a very "flowing" kind of behavior, and seem to be attuned to what is happening, although sometimes they ironically appear detached. They only rarely seem expansive, and tend to be more aware of the way they and others are feeling and how they are experiencing things, rather than what things cause those feelings or what objects define their experience. Although they are capable of the latter, they tend to avoid it too much because it is kinda boring to them. They tend to be involved in activities where the manner and style of performance is important, and attempt to create harmony in most things. They are typically receptive to ideas that help them expand their awareness and provide possibilities for them. They are angered and frustrated by a focus on work processes and extended cause and effect.

ESIs (ISFjs) are aware primarily of the attitudes of others and the objects that cause certain attitudes and responses. To me, their overall behavior and movement appears more "angular", although this is highly subjective. They can be very direct when provoked or convicted, but usually seem polite and self-assured in a nonchalant manner, as opposed to the more spontaneous "warmth" of the SEI. They usually describe things in terms of orientation toward an object, person, or goal. Though they can be expressive and understand emotional displays well, they get tired of it, and prefer more to find the inner feelings of attraction and repulsion. They often have a strong regard for loyalty, and know how to exact loyalty in the right conditions, and excite people to an ethical goal. They are enchanted by a solid understanding of the ways in which things can be accomplished and the manner in which events lead to one another. They are skeptical of and frustrated by ideas that seem to have little basis in reality, and little application to ethical goals. They are often found in activities that require a great deal of consistency and devotion, and require quick and pragmatic ethical judgements. It is my hypothesis that they invented accounting.

I hope this helps. It takes a while to get a "feel" for it, and even then it's not perfect. I know I'm not. Good luck!

Mmm yea I agree with this. I think accounting is perhaps slighlty more ISTj, but I'm not certain. Perhaps just creative-Se. In any case, boring.

[Joy]

SEI's are softer and more outwardly friendly/jovial.

[Khola aka Bee]

Ask Kam

[Mediator Kam]

She is right. I am ISFp, and my mother is ISFj.

I enjoy making and hearing a lot of jokes. My mother never has made a joke and she laughs about normal everyday happenings, while I laugh at things that are more far-out and unreal. That is the Ne PoLR in action. Random(me) vs. Static/Normal(her) I am more smiley and jovial than her. I rarely yell about anything, but if I do, I scream and just get furious. My mother enjoys to raise her voice if she is challenged in any way.

She hates to discuss sex, homosexuality, or anything like that because discussing such topics out loud is just "bad". I see no problem with it, because sex and homosexuality are real topics. Very very very moralistic woman, she isn't afraid to voice her opinion on issues of morality. I have seen a lot of Fi PoLR from ILE's and I know my mother would lay the smackdown on them if she heard them. I'm more accepting of people overall also. I will make friends with everyone, my mother chooses her friends very very cautiously.

Anything else, I'm here. I know my mom very well.

[EllaC]

Thanks guys! You have all painted a better picture / "feel" for the differences, it has helped, and I think I understand who is what now - explains a few things! Thank you all muchly

[Joy]

ESI's are extremely playful, some of the most playful people I've known. However, you have to be close to them in order to see it, generally speaking.

[mikemex]

SEIs don't care about business, ESIs love the topic.

[Elro]

Kamangir is right. ISFjs are all dead serious. We only laugh about dishes and laundry and driving to the dentist. Nothing else is fit for even a smile. We would never tell our kids that we had just traveled through a wormhole and were on the opposite side of the country when they ask us how much longer to our destination. We would never make up silly songs or dances, or do handstands in our living rooms, or allow our kids to ride bicycles inside the house on a rainy day. We yell about everything, and never joke around. We especially do not make up elaborate metaphors with our friends. We shun everyone who is not up to the proper standards. Serious and stoic, thy name is ISFj.

Just in case anyone missed this, I think Diana made this post during opposite day.

[Mediator Kam]

Under no exaggeration, Diana's description of ESI is so much like my mom that I never noticed she was mocking me.

It is a very good profile of a middle aged ESI, one with 3 kids, all born after 35.

[Ezra]

LIEs and ILEs

Right...

I think Joy has the right idea; she simply hasn't explained it clearly enough.

Essentially, what people have completely missed is the fact that ESIs and SEIs are in opposing quadras. ESIs value the exact opposite of what SEIs value. They are as good as each other at the same things (Se, Si, Fe and Fi); they merely value completely different things.

Some people like this style of explanation. Others prefer it if you "just give me the differences in real-life terms - no theoretical crap". If you like the former, ask me (or Joy or Expat or anyone else who follows this style of reasoning) more about the differences and I'd/we'd be glad to tell you. If you like the latter, just carry on what you're doing; you'll get plenty of responses.

[force my hand]

The main difference between ISFps and ISFjs is that the former jump out at me whereas I never seem to notice the latter.

Oh, you wanted something objective? Whoops, sorry!

[JRiddy]

Pam (SEI) vs. Angela (ESI) from The Office (US Version)

But most ESIs are no where near as rigid and mean as Angela is, so don't get the wrong idea. This show, in my estimation, really contrasts the Alpha Values (Michael, Jim, Pam) with Gamma Values (Dwight, Angela, Jan)

[Revan]

I was wondering if anyone could give me the fundamental differences between a SEI and an ESI? Being an ILE this can be concerning because one is my dual and the other is my conflictor. I would love to know how to identify each and even some similarities could be useful, I suppose. Also, what exactly does a relationship of conflict look like? And finally what do SEIs think of ESIs? I'm concerned because I believe I'm in a relationship with a SEI, but I'm not completely sure.

[EyeSeeCold]

ESI in my experience:
Tend to bottle feelings while keeping a restrained cryptic manner.
Tend to care about punishments and discipline, even when joking.
They're also big on devotion and feel that they give more than they receive.
Quick to react to emergencies / seems to always expect an emergency.
Prefer the time-tested, old, familiar things in life.
Shy around unfamiliar people or in unfamiliar situations, have a dominating presence otherwise.
Realists / materialistic(when not being frugal).
Can be dogmatic and boastful.
Secretly romantic/poetic.

Conflictor relationships = relationships of ingratitude & suppression

[Aquagraph]

You're either too desperately lonely and/or in love to not care about dating your conflictor whose a bitch who wants to conform your ways and thinking, or then you're dating someone who is not your conflictor. You might be also dating Allie in which case you should not worry about dating with your conflictor but rather focus on being too cool.

[FDG]

Tend to care about punishments and discipline, even when joking.

Generally untrue for those born past the 60s...

Realists / materialistic(when not being frugal).

How can they be both frugal and materialistic? D:

IME ISFjs would kind of like spending some money but generally hold back as much as they can. Males ESI can act differently, more showoff-y.

[Crispy]

I forgot where (i'll post it if i find it) but Aushra described SEI/IEI as the "warmest" of the socion, and ESI/EII as the "coldest" of the socion.

[mfckr]

I forgot where (i'll post it if i find it) but Aushra described SEI/IEI as the "warmest" of the socion, and ESI/EII as the "coldest" of the socion.

From an ENTp POV maybe.

[Aquagraph]

From an ENTp POV maybe.

I wanna hear ENTj POV on ESIs and SEIs.

[mfckr]

Luckily both Aushra and the question asker are apparently ILE!

OMG REALLY???