Do most SEEs (ESFp) end up dating ILIs (INTps)?

[Jgib5328]

Just wondering since they are dual types. Also how are their relationships usually too? Any details would be helpful.

[Logos]

Just wondering since they are dual types. Also how are their relationships usually too? Any details would be helpful.

ESFps will generally date all INTps but you.

[jewels]

I know an esfp guy who likes the idea of intps when I describe that type. He dated one girl who he said sounded like an intp and was really into her.

I think they probably are drawn to intps. But they don't tend to have any interest in socionics (from the ones I've known).

[ScarlettLux]

Are ESxps really that drawn to INxps? I'm not so sure about that... I hope so. In my mind, I would think that ESxps would get bored of the INxp and move on quickly. Or maybe the fact that INxps are so closed off excites the ESxp

[Jarno]

Just wondering since they are dual types. Also how are their relationships usually too? Any details would be helpful.

They don't end up with them, since you're probably not to familiar with socionics here are the details:

Duality is the relationship most difficult to spot / to start because everything feels to much ordinary. Sometimes you even don't spot your dual. With an exception of people who have knowledge of socionics, who are able to spot their dual.

Duality is the relationship which last most long of all relationships.

ESFP (SEE) are drawn to introverts, so that could be an advantage.

I've been in a dual relationship, it felt really good, really a soulmate, you nearly never argue, and understand eachother perfectly. I still feel stupid of breaking up, but well I'm really good at messing things up.

If you have more questions feel free to ask.

[XoX]

I just met an ESFp/INTp couple of around 20+ of age. It was rather interesting. The ESFp was rather silent. The INTp almost talked more. Still the ESFp was clearly more extroverted when meeting new people. I now can see better how ESFps and INTps make good duals I think. It is a good match.

[meatburger]

Yeah. I wouldn't say INTp's would worship ESFp's either. The INTp guy i know is pretty damn confident. He's just graduated at law. I can imagine a little ESFp girl acting all fun and bubbly and he would put her in her place (in his nice way). I can actually see an ESFp idolising an INTp as they would be like holy shit my seductions aren't working as well on this one.

ESFp's dont get bored of INTp's because they are like a constant challenge. Everyone seems to consider all the INTp's are being young and nerdy etc. When they are mature and comfortable with themselves the tables change a bit i think.

[implied]

ESFp probably are worshipped by the INTp...

with the stories you hear here of ESFps, i really fucking doubt it. you know how PPOD is like, "ugh, ESFp, dog vomit." i think this happens.

[EMCastle]

I am an INTP who has been involved with an ESFP for two years. I don’t know whether or not they typically date; indeed it seems unlikely for an INTP of a certain persuasion (computers, say) to be in a social position to meet an ESFP who may be more interested in social pursuits. Also, I can speak only on a male INTP/female ESFP pairing.
However, my relationship with an ESFP girl has been the best thing that has ever happened to me, and she feels the same way of herself. The personal details of our relationship tend to illustrate socioconic principles specific to our types, and to dual relationships in general. Since you asked. . .
When we first met, she was very friendly, and I was terrified. I mumbled and made our conversation awkward with silences and monosylabic responses. Still, she remained pleasant and interested in me, which I became angry about because I felt it was forced for my benefit (why should she be so interested in me? Clearly I’m not worth her attention. . .). I broke the conversation off as quickly as I could. I suspect that this is probably how many ESFP/INTP meetings end.
However, although I didn’t walk away feeling this way, I later realized that she made a powerful impression on me, and I couldn’t get her face and voice out of my mind. It was more than her physical beauty; something in her look obsessed me to the point of tracking down a friend of hers and arranging a meeting between us, which miraculously she agreed to.
I arranged a situation comfortable for me, and although I was nervous, and it was difficult, I fared better because she carried much of the conversation. She asked me questions about my tastes in things, and seeing that I had an appreciatve audience (ESFP’s are amazing with displays of appreciation) I answered truthfully, without any particular charm, and we parted promising to meet again soon. After the fact I heard that when she had left this second meeting, she felt she was in love.
Since then, I have had the fear (as one might suspect if they think of the INTP as nerdy or socially awkward) that I was boring her, and that she would leave (she is somewhat flighty), but her persistence has flattered me and I have, as I believe any INTP must in this sort of relationship, put my fears aside. I know that she often feared she was not my intellectual equal, or that she appeared undignified to me. The INTP pursuing or involved with an ESFP might keep that fear in mind: the object of your affections is probably as nervous as you (about their respective weaknesses, which are typically the other’s strengths), only the ESFP is very game and poised, and so will not betray these fears. At least, the INTP seems unlikely to perceive these fears (at least, I didn’t).
It is true that I idolize my ESFP partner for all of her strengths that are my weaknesses: her practicality, positive attitude (counter-intutive for an INTP, but true nevertheless), activity, charm, poise, and good taste in dress and sensory things. I know that she admires me for being thoughtful (counter-intuitive again, but believe it), unflappable, dignified, well-read, stoical and creative, and especially for being what she has called “ethical.” These are common traits for the ESFP and INTP. She has never described me as nerdy, and I have never thought of her as unintelligent; if an INTP thinks intelligence is only knowledge of, say, computers, then that INTP will probably think of an ESFP as unintelligent; by the same token, if an ESFP thinks thoughtfulness condemns one to being a nerd, then that ENTP would probably think of an INTP as nerdy. But these things have not applied to us. In fact, she has described me as a “cowboy,” which is hyperbole, but contains a grain of truth about my demeanor, and is no doubt a compliment coming from her.
I do not know if she feels the same way, but I have felt motivated by her to improve my dress and organization (although she forgives me my lapses) as well as to be active. I have learned to cook and dance. I often feel that she has standards that if I am to keep her, I must meet. I have no problem with this. Perhaps a crankier INTP might, although I am pretty cranky; my ESFP partner is the only person who has ever “softened” me.
I think the ESFP partner feels compelled to show appreciation for the INTP not primarily by meeting some imagined standards, but through encouragement and gifts and ideas.
I am grateful that she organizes our plans together, because I have little tolerance for doing that sort of thing, and have not learned to do it yet. She is grateful to me for being stoical and calm when she feels emotionally overwhelmed; it is untrue of my experience with emotional outbursts with other types, but if I do not necessarily enjoy being calm when I believe she is overreacting, I have no problem saying what she needs to hear.
Also, I know that she, and ESFPs in general, is flattered by being “questioned.”
Our relationship is somewhat young (we’re twenty years old) but she has had several boyfriends (none INTP) and has never been satisfied. I have had two prior relationships and was unsatisfied in those as well.
I can speak on one last topic that I have not seen covered in socioconics (admittedly I have not looked into all aspects of the field) which is sexuality. She is a very demanding lover, as I would bet many ESFP’s are, and as in many areas between us has been more assertive (i.e., I have, as I bet INTP’s do when paired with ESFP’s, been more adaptive). But of course I’m not complaining about that!
Many people are put off by her (many more desire her, especially men) but their criticisms never occur to me, which is to say that I can put up with things about her that irritate others, which are common ESFP traits such as caprice, lying (admittedly that one’s hard to ignore sometimes), self-righteousness and half-baked plans and schemes. But generally we have learned from one another and the relationship has flourished.
No doubt there will be criticisms of this account (which is not comprehensive, nor has been revised) of our relationship as it relates to socioconic principles (and someone might even make fun of me!), but I’m confident that this contains many aspects of the (male) INTP/(female) ESFP relationships. I apologize that it has been written hastily, particular the second half of it; also it is rather frank, but my aim is to answer (at least through anecdote) the question first posed.

[meatburger]

Hehe. I liked all that EMCastle. It seems to me very inkeeping and honest with what i would expect and particularly have read about ESFp's. The ESFp girls i know seem to be impressed by my computer knowledge(which isn't that good) so i can imagine they would be facinated by the INTp's.

I really like the Idea of ESFp's and INTp's. Not saying they are all nerds, but theres something about a nerdy guy getting a hot outgoing chick that just rocks my socks. Its the total opposite of what those fucking teen movies say about the jock and the prom queen getting together. If the media wasn't so fucked up i think so many more people would find their duals.

[Ms. Kensington]

yeah i enjoyed that story as well. Seems that many dual interactions are like "it doesnt bother me" but they can't really explain why. It just works well.

EMC, could you explain more what you have learned from the ESFp?

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

ESFp probably are worshipped by the INTp...

with the stories you hear here of ESFps, i really fucking doubt it. you know how PPOD is like, "ugh, ESFp, dog vomit." i think this happens.

Yes. From many of the detailed personal descriptions on this board, ESFp's are wild creatures who seem like someone INTp's would never wish to handle and only get stuck with because they . But in reality, these stories don't convey a real sense of a good portion of ESFp's out there. I would find it very hard to believe that INTp's idolize this stereotypical ESFp. I sometimes read stories about these sexually aggressive player ESFp's who can act quite deranged at times and have a hard time believing that they are supposed to be my dual. I think other INTp's would probably think in a more negative fashion if you were to tell them that ESFp's were supposed to be the type of person they are most compatible with in relationships. In a way, some of the INTp-ESFp duality descriptions assume very exaggerated type characteristics of these two types in order for them to find each other and somehow develop a strong relationship(which is also a case for many other type and duality descriptions which). Unfortunately, reality puts a wedge in between these two types.


EMCastle's description helps clear things up. The description of his relationship offers proof that in reality there does indeed exist a INTp-ESFp duality. There are some traits of ESFp's that many people might find difficult to put up with but INTp's find much easier to deal with, with some difficulties. The same can probably be said of INTp's- laziness, lacking social networks, not caring how people perceive them, emotional uninvolvement, unassertiveness, etc. Oddly, in my experience, ESFp's might look positively upon some traits others, including INTp's themselves, might look down upon. I don't know if the same thing can be said from the other way around, but I wouldn't doubt it(as is the situation with any duality). One thing that he also notes is that his girlfriend tries to demand improvements from him. ESFps after being in a relationship with someone for a while, in order not to become bored with the person, can be quite assertive about the partner changing social aspects of themselves. INTps can be quite recepient towards these suggestions from an ESFp. What would help give this board more information about this relationship are more specific details about the two people individualy and to note how each others personality changes when in interaction with each other.

[FDG]

EMCastle, sounds exactly like the INTp ESFp relationship I've just seen starting. Good thing having a witness here. Now we need some more for all the pairs (I won't do ENTj ISFj since I'm not believed to be ENTj anymore).

[XoX]

ESFp probably are worshipped by the INTp...

with the stories you hear here of ESFps, i really fucking doubt it. you know how PPOD is like, "ugh, ESFp, dog vomit." i think this happens.

I still see PPOD as too aristocratic to be an INTp. Beta or Delta seems more likely. Perhaps INFp or ISTp. Of course I never know which part of what she says is real her and which part is just irony/sarcasm/said for effect. I wonder what is her current bf's type though...I know she apparently dated an INFj once (by her own typing).

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

ESFp probably are worshipped by the INTp...

with the stories you hear here of ESFps, i really fucking doubt it. you know how PPOD is like, "ugh, ESFp, dog vomit." i think this happens.

I still see PPOD as too aristocratic to be an INTp. Beta or Delta seems more likely. Perhaps INFp or ISTp. Of course I never know which part of what she says is real her and which part is just irony/sarcasm/said for effect. I wonder what is her current bf's type though...I know she apparently dated an INFj once (by her own typing).

I didn't really address this with my post, and I was going to, but I agree with XoX. PPOD seems much more like an INFp than INTp. I wouldn't use her quote as an example.

[implied]

ESFp probably are worshipped by the INTp...

with the stories you hear here of ESFps, i really fucking doubt it. you know how PPOD is like, "ugh, ESFp, dog vomit." i think this happens.

I still see PPOD as too aristocratic to be an INTp. Beta or Delta seems more likely. Perhaps INFp or ISTp. Of course I never know which part of what she says is real her and which part is just irony/sarcasm/said for effect. I wonder what is her current bf's type though...I know she apparently dated an INFj once (by her own typing).

I didn't really address this with my post, and I was going to, but I agree with XoX. PPOD seems much more like an INFp than INTp. I wouldn't use her quote as an example.

points totally taken and i see where aristocracy etc has come into play (i do not really want to turn this into a debate over PPOD's type because it's just not what this thread is about.) however, i've heard the same sort of comments from more "benchmark" INTps or what have you. regardless, the ESFp (and ESTp) board stories here do make me think, "this is an impossible relationship and i would really just rather be alone than bother with such a person."

[Garmonbozia]

Actually....



Everything else aside you can argue about my "type" all you want I mean, funny how quickly minds change. I'm on my 19th incarnation, who knows.



I think my uh.. Canadian (too old to call a boyfriend) may just be a strange kind of depressive ESFp. It's You know, possible. Now, mind you I try always to make this as clear as I might, I don't Care and I think that Socionics is, if anything a destructive branch of pop psychology.



Russians are destructive.



The other day Douglas (the Canadian) and I were having a conversation about "usefulness". He has a friend that is some kind of surrealist design expert. Apparently the surrealist writers also made dresses? At any rate I pointed out that it is a horrid waste of an intelligent persons life to become a surrealist fashion expert. He wildly disagrees. If a Rembrandt and a 2-week-old infant were floating out to sea he would save the infant but not be very happy about it says he.

[implied]

he seems awesome.

[anndelise]

This isn't exactly about dating....

my daughter is SeFi and had some issues that prevented her from making friends for a long time.
in kindergarten, these issues were very ...dramatic. sudden changes of behavior that left many people, even the teacher flabbergasted. (they wouldn't believe me when I would tell them the triggers..until they saw first hand)

anyways. There was a boy in her class, who, for some reason, didn't socialize with other kids. He was pretty much a loner, liked playing with the connect-a-sets type things, doing little experiments on his own, etc. He'd get exasperated if someone interrupted him.

BUT...he wouldn't get upset when my daughter would interrupt him, nor when she'd chat with him. And somehow he had a calming affect on her when she'd be close to flipping out. He always seemed to find a way to distract her from the trigger. The teacher says they spent a lot of time in close proximity of each other, but each doing their own thing. My daughter's thing was with the water and sand box. (she's a fish I swear!!)

They spent recess time together, playing with some sports equipment or some kind of let's pretend game.

When they went on vacation to Mexico, the boy made a vase and painted it..with the intention of giving it to my daughter. (We still have it)

His mother invited us over because she was so happy that her son had a friend at school. Unfortunately, there were also some cousins over, too many kids, it overwhelmed my daughter, hit a bunch of triggers, and we left early.

But when school started again, it was like nothing had changed between them.

They were in separate classes in First Grade. He still didn't socialize with any of the kids. She still had her issues. They still sought each other out during recess. She was still the primary initiator.

And then before 2nd grade started, his mother either moved, or put him into private school.
And I pulled her out of public school so that I could homeschool until she learned to overcome those issues.

I really wish I had kept in touch with that family, though.
Now, I admit, i don't know if he was intp or istp. Defintely IP, and definitely Te.
So take this for whatever worth you find in it.

[Garmonbozia]

Actually....



Everything else aside you can argue about my "type" all you want I mean, funny how quickly minds change. I'm on my 19th incarnation, who knows.

Understand yourself, understand the system, get older so your hormones aren't kicking you in the ass. Get clean so your mind isn't a haze, I don't think your type is gonna change that much unless there is a biochemical problem or some sort of dissociative disorder.

I think my uh.. Canadian (too old to call a boyfriend) may just be a strange kind of depressive ESFp. It's You know, possible. Now, mind you I try always to make this as clear as I might, I don't Care and I think that Socionics is, if anything a destructive branch of pop psychology.

You're gonna get visited. You know about that guy in Britain don't you... Don't have coffee or tea or anything out of a non-bottle... eat.. very little.. I don't think you're going to have a problem with this. :wink:

The other day Douglas (the Canadian) and I were having a conversation about "usefulness". He has a friend that is some kind of surrealist design expert. Apparently the surrealist writers also made dresses? At any rate I pointed out that it is a horrid waste of an intelligent persons life to become a surrealist fashion expert. He wildly disagrees. If a Rembrandt and a 2-week-old infant were floating out to sea he would save the infant but not be very happy about it says he.

Douglas might be a thinker.

Uhh, did Hugo TELL you he was going to come to Mexico?

He can't afford it, he is a looser with no job.

[Garmonbozia]

he seems awesome.

Yeah.



But seriously, he seems to think that being an anchor historian is just as important as being a brain surgeon. Wants not to live in the city of the pigs and so everything he does is (he says, although I argue and say everything is in it's own way useful) useless. Sort of an Oscar Wilde character this one.

[Mea]

This isn't exactly about dating....

my daughter is SeFi and had some issues that prevented her from making friends for a long time.
in kindergarten, these issues were very ...dramatic. sudden changes of behavior that left many people, even the teacher flabbergasted. (they wouldn't believe me when I would tell them the triggers..until they saw first hand)

anyways. There was a boy in her class, who, for some reason, didn't socialize with other kids. He was pretty much a loner, liked playing with the connect-a-sets type things, doing little experiments on his own, etc. He'd get exasperated if someone interrupted him.

BUT...he wouldn't get upset when my daughter would interrupt him, nor when she'd chat with him. And somehow he had a calming affect on her when she'd be close to flipping out. He always seemed to find a way to distract her from the trigger. The teacher says they spent a lot of time in close proximity of each other, but each doing their own thing. My daughter's thing was with the water and sand box. (she's a fish I swear!!)

They spent recess time together, playing with some sports equipment or some kind of let's pretend game.

When they went on vacation to Mexico, the boy made a vase and painted it..with the intention of giving it to my daughter. (We still have it)

His mother invited us over because she was so happy that her son had a friend at school. Unfortunately, there were also some cousins over, too many kids, it overwhelmed my daughter, hit a bunch of triggers, and we left early.

But when school started again, it was like nothing had changed between them.

They were in separate classes in First Grade. He still didn't socialize with any of the kids. She still had her issues. They still sought each other out during recess. She was still the primary initiator.

And then before 2nd grade started, his mother either moved, or put him into private school.
And I pulled her out of public school so that I could homeschool until she learned to overcome those issues.

I really wish I had kept in touch with that family, though.
Now, I admit, i don't know if he was intp or istp. Defintely IP, and definitely Te.
So take this for whatever worth you find in it.

I really enjoyed the story.

Just had to say it.

[carrina]

Just wondering since they are dual types. Also how are their relationships usually too? Any details would be helpful.

I'm gonna go with no since there are tons of SEEs all over the place.
I've dated ILIs before but not for very long (nothing to do with them, i just don't like long term relationships)

[carrina]

I just met an ESFp/INTp couple of around 20+ of age. It was rather interesting. The ESFp was rather silent. The INTp almost talked more. Still the ESFp was clearly more extroverted when meeting new people. I now can see better how ESFps and INTps make good duals I think. It is a good match.

This has been my experience as well

[Beautiful sky]

This has been my experience as well

Because ILI are the boss of SEE...I call them Napoleon complex little dictators

[End]

Because ILI are the boss of SEE...I call them Napoleon complex little dictators

I'd actually think that the ILI only appears that way on the surface, or in public. In private the SEE would run the show most likely. They'd make a suggestion and the ILI would eagerly want to conform to them or otherwise fulfill their subtle requests. For instance, if the SEE said "You'd look great in black" the ILI would then go out and, probably a bit grudgingly but also quite happily, buy a black outfit and wear it for the next date. The SEE would be very pleased with this. After all, they *do* look good in black .

Likewise, if the ILI said, "You should probably not hang out with that person, they only want to fuck you and nothing more. It'll end badly" the SEE would begin to minimize contact with that person. It wouldn't be said out of jealousy or anything (although we cannot avoid jealousy in romantic relationships no matter how much we wish we could), but more about "stating the facts" and how the is saying to the ILI that that's how it is and how it will develop. This saves the SEE from a bad break up and a bunch of heartache when she would have discovered that yeah, he's got a few other girls on the side he didn't want you to know about. Had em' since ya first met too, he just wanted another young pretty thing to fuck on Wednesday. You thought you were his girl, in reality, you were just another plate he was spinning. Oh, he's totally not guilty about it either, he's a Dismissive-Avoidant playboy, he thinks intimacy is for fools. The dating pool, only 50 percent are ready for real intimacy and that number drops *fast* as the age goes up. Sucks but hey, it is what it is. The reverse also holds, girls can have secret harems too, lots of female playboys out there don't think this is gender specific.

Sucks harder as well, as the media doesn't really encourage you to get with your dual. If male, ya gotta be a ripped millionaire, rock star, or movie god to get beautiful women, don't bother if ya don't fit into those categories. If a girl, you gotta be a supermodel to change that hunky "bad boy" into a "good" man, don't bother if you ain't a 10/10 and he's a boring "nice guy" right off the bat. Both sides, that's not the way it really is or should be, you're probably slowly learning that fact, and if you're sane you're getting very, very pissed off.

[Beautiful sky]

I'd actually think that the ILI only appears that way on the surface, or in public. In private the SEE would run the show most likely. They'd make a suggestion and the ILI would eagerly want to conform to them or otherwise fulfill their subtle requests. For instance, if the SEE said "You'd look great in black" the ILI would then go out and, probably a bit grudgingly but also quite happily, buy a black outfit and wear it for the next date. The SEE would be very pleased with this. After all, they *do* look good in black .

Likewise, if the ILI said, "You should probably not hang out with that person, they only want to fuck you and nothing more. It'll end badly" the SEE would begin to minimize contact with that person. It wouldn't be said out of jealousy or anything (although we cannot avoid jealousy in romantic relationships no matter how much we wish we could), but more about "stating the facts" and how the is saying to the ILI that that's how it is and how it will develop. This saves the SEE from a bad break up and a bunch of heartache when she would have discovered that yeah, he's got a few other girls on the side he didn't want you to know about. Had em' since ya first met too, he just wanted another young pretty thing to fuck on Wednesday. You thought you were his girl, in reality, you were just another plate he was spinning. Oh, he's totally not guilty about it either, he's a Dismissive-Avoidant playboy, he thinks intimacy is for fools. The dating pool, only 50 percent are ready for real intimacy and that number drops *fast* as the age goes up. Sucks but hey, it is what it is. The reverse also holds, girls can have secret harems too, lots of female playboys out there don't think this is gender specific.

Sucks harder as well, as the media doesn't really encourage you to get with your dual. If male, ya gotta be a ripped millionaire, rock star, or movie god to get beautiful women, don't bother if ya don't fit into those categories. If a girl, you gotta be a supermodel to change that hunky "bad boy" into a "good" man, don't bother if you ain't a 10/10 and he's a boring "nice guy" right off the bat. Both sides, that's not the way it really is or should be, you're probably slowly learning that fact, and if you're sane you're getting very, very pissed off.

are you in a dual relationship?

[End]

are you in a dual relationship?

I believe I have an SEE brother. He has all the common symptoms, and we both find each other's company to be very nice. I also find myself constantly approving of his greyish ethical behavior in a relationship. He recently fooled his wife on the monetary front and bought something behind her back with money he got himself. Oh that's just horrible right? Nope. He gets what he wants, you telling him "no" only motivates him further (to an extent, he's not without ethics or honor, I made sure of that). I... kinda helped on the plotting and scheming front, nudged him towards doing it by telling him his plans were adequate and would be effective. Gah! I'm a horrible person but that he succeeded in it all thanks to a little input from me... .

[carrina]

In my experience the leadership roles are clear. SEE knows who is boss wether that is the see or the ili. If it's the ILI it's because they've submitted to the ILI. The SEE knows that the ILI will guide them. They have respect for the ILI and see the ILI as harmless and vulnerable so there is less competition. At least when it comes to how the SEE competes with the average citizen.

[carrina]

I believe I have an SEE brother. He has all the common symptoms, and we both find each other's company to be very nice. I also find myself constantly approving of his greyish ethical behavior in a relationship. He recently fooled his wife on the monetary front and bought something behind her back with money he got himself. Oh that's just horrible right? Nope. He gets what he wants, you telling him "no" only motivates him further (to an extent, he's not without ethics or honor, I made sure of that). I... kinda helped on the plotting and scheming front, nudged him towards doing it by telling him his plans were adequate and would be effective. Gah! I'm a horrible person but that he succeeded in it all thanks to a little input from me... .

Wow. You're so evil.

[carrina]

Because ILI are the boss of SEE...I call them Napoleon complex little dictators

I basically agree with Maritsa but it's not this simple.

[End]

Wow. You're so evil.

Thank you .

[carrina]

Thank you .

You're welcome, dark over Lord.
No in all honesty i think that scheme was a little crazy. But hey, crazies come from all over the socion. Not that I'm judging you.

[End]

You're welcome, dark over Lord.
No in all honesty i think that scheme was a little crazy. But hey, crazies come from all over the socion. Not that I'm judging you.

It wasn't crazy at all, everything was above board, nothing truly unethical unless hiding the desire to spend money on something the wife might view as pointless and then doing it in a way where she can't just take the item back when he's gone to get the money back is unethical. He said he was worried that if he went through with it through normal channels she'd say it's "our" money then promptly spend it on something else or otherwise force him to save it, thus forcing him to wait for the new shiny thing.

Basically, he wanted to accelerate the timeframe so he could get the shiny new thing sooner than usually allowed and he had all the necessary elements to get the goods without negatively impacting the household budget or burdening the wife. He asked me about it and I told him he had a solid plan and wished him luck, then he did it. Maybe I should have berated him but really, his plan was solid and otherwise completely ethical. He didn't take anything from her in any way materially, just kept it secret that he had more money saved up than he let on.

[carrina]

It wasn't crazy at all, everything was above board, nothing truly unethical unless hiding the desire to spend money on something the wife might view as pointless and then doing it in a way where she can't just take the item back when he's gone to get the money back is unethical. He said he was worried that if he went through with it through normal channels she'd say it's "our" money then promptly spend it on something else or otherwise force him to save it, thus forcing him to wait for the new shiny thing.

Basically, he wanted to accelerate the timeframe so he could get the shiny new thing sooner than usually allowed and he had all the necessary elements to get the goods without negatively impacting the household budget or burdening the wife. He asked me about it and I told him he had a solid plan and wished him luck, then he did it. Maybe I should have berated him but really, his plan was solid and otherwise completely ethical. He didn't take anything from her in any way materially, just kept it secret that he had more money saved up than he let on.

I wouldn't have expected you to berade him. I don't even know if i would've acted differently. I'm sure he had his reasons for lying to his spouse. In a circumstance where it was none of her business what he did in the particular situation and assuming she would've gone out of her way to be an asshole about it, i could see the activity being ethical.
I want to mention that I'm only commenting out of interest, the ethics of your brother and you are none of my business, and I'm not attempting to convey that it is.
To further express my opinion, (just because i feel like talking about it) the most ethical action on his part would've been to tell her and do whatever he pleased after because honesty and respect and shit.
On your part it's like, well he's going to make his own decisions because he's an adult. I had a similar circumstance with my LIE-ni brother and his wife that i avoided getting involved in. And yet another situation that i did get involved with. My ethical stance is that honesty is always best. If it breaks up relationships, well, maybe it wasn't meant to be. At least each person was given the right to make decisions based upon a reality rather than a lie. By no means do I always stick to "what's right" if I don't feel like it.
Anyway, minding my own business.

[End]

Honesty is indeed the best policy @carrina, and I always advocate it. Hell I try to embody it, ain't nobody more honest than ol' End. He honestly had a good plan with an understandable fear that he somehow compensated for perfectly (hence my approval). She was only slightly huffy about it all when it happened. Again, she wasn't really impacted. The bills were still paid, the house was still cleaned, he still cut the grass (even though he's trying to time it so that the next time he does it's the last time this year. He pulled if off last year and really liked that. Extra work, a thing he likes to avoid if possible), everything pretty much remained the same, etc.

Probably why she didn't get too mad about it. I think she's a Beta NF (IEI) but hey, he's financially stable, and he does take good care of her because I think he truly does love her. Romance ain't all about duality after all. If you find yourself a good partner who isn't afraid to be truly intimate with you the sociotype won't matter as much in the end. Unless you're trying to get intimate with the conflictor. Man, that's gonna be tough, REALLY tough. Yet it happens, love is a powerful force, a pity we've all been led to believe that the state of limerence is love. The "honeymoon" always fades away. But true love? True love conquers all .

Plus, I've promised her that, if she ever treated him badly in some form I'd tell her straight up. I won't let some hussy take my bro to the cleaners or make him miserable because of modernity's BS. She gets fat? I'll let her know over dinner. She acts like a bitch? I swore to call her out on it, hell she asked me to! A woman who agrees to that kind of ILI rude brute force evaluations even if they turn negative? Heh, no wonder he fell for ya girl! Ya picked an awesome family to marry into, good job.

[carrina]

@End
There's quite abit that you've said that i agree with. Yeah duality isn't what Socionics is about. Duality is great, don't get me wrong. But life and interaction much more than Socionics.