Identicals in relations taking on Dual roles

[Cone]

I just came across something quite interesting from socionics.com:

In order for Identical relations to last, one partner has to take a role of the Dual as if it was a Duality relationship. Usually it happens naturally. If the two are introverts, one often subconsciously attempts to take care of the extroverted side of things, if the two are thinking types, then one would try to fill the resulting emotional void etc. Different backgrounds and function developments of Identical partners could help in this case, however as with any other relationship there has to be a driving force behind it to keep it going.


When I'm around my INTp cousin, I believe that I turn into a sub-ENFp and he turns into a sub-ISTp.

[Joy]

This makes sense. I mean, both people can't fill an identical role. So.... you're suggesting that both people compromise and whichever is stronger in certain functions takes them over? Hmmmmm.... But my strongest function is most definitely N and I still don't see how being with an S would be more advantageous than being with an N. What am I missing here?

[mimisor]

I think identical types understand each other very well, but they can't help each other.

[Rocky]

This makes sense. I mean, both people can't fill an identical role. So.... you're suggesting that both people compromise and whichever is stronger in certain functions takes them over? Hmmmmm.... But my strongest function is most definitely N and I still don't see how being with an S would be more advantageous than being with an N. What am I missing here?

Balancing out functions...

needs to balance each other out.... so two with ILE/ ENTP types together I guess one would have to become more heavy on the for them to be stable. Same goes for and . I wouldn't be surprised if this did actually work out that way... I can think of one SLI girl...

[Topaz]

Its doesnt work too well if you really want what a dual can provide. There is always frustration as the other partner mirrors your own imperfections. The value in this is you can see where you are going wrong and try to improve but you cant do everything so ultimately you have to recuit help from outside the relationship to take care of certain matters. For example an IEE couple will pay for someone to do their taxes if neither can bear to do it. They will definitely have the shop do all repairs on their car and they would probably eat out alot if neither likes to cook or cant cook well. Hopefully identicals would be mature enough to recognize their weaknesses and discuss how chores can be distributed so that neither feels like they are living outside of themselves. Otherwise, they will suffocate in problems and blame each other.
Even with successful dual couples ( and non-dual ) I think that its unrealistic that one other person is going to fullfill all your needs. Its good to have supportive friends and family for some of that. Of course its also our responsibility to be supportive of them as well.

[MysticSonic]

That is very interesting as that is PRECISELY what happens in my identical relationships.

[tcaudilllg]

I think identical types understand each other very well, but they can't help each other.

Although they may not help each other on a personal level, aren't they always helping each other on a societal level?

[Cone]

It depends...

With my cousin, I am exactly 3 1/2 years older than he is, which allows me to help him with both societal and personal situations. It's basically like the "big brother" effect.

[Joy]

So according to the theory... would this be something that tends to be develop permantent roles for each partner, or would it sorta go back and forth, depending on the circumstances and whatnot?

[Joy]

See, that's what I would have thought... but the paragraph Cone posted makes it sound like more of a permanent role. If that was the case, wouldn't the one who is not filling their personality type's role be resentful of the other person because they are in a postition which demands that they become someone they are not?

[Joy]

the whole purpose of identical relations is to establish identity

did you read that somewhere?

[Joy]

The result of Identical relations is self-development, because these relations can help you to look at your own abilities and disabilities from a different angle. Identical relations can be compared with watching a video of oneself. In conclusion, only these relations can provide a person with correct self-evaluation.

oic

[Expat]

So according to the theory... would this be something that tends to be develop permantent roles for each partner, or would it sorta go back and forth, depending on the circumstances and whatnot?

In my experience, it gos back and forth, depending on who needs what at the time.

I was thinking about this as I have an ENTj work colleague with whom I get along very well. In our case it definitely goes back and forth. Constantly.

[redbaron]

Has anyone known any identical-type marriages or long-term relationships? I'm curious as to if and how this part of the description actually manifests itself:

In order for Identical relations to last, one partner has to take a role of the Dual as if it was a Duality relationship. Usually it happens naturally. If the two are introverts, one often subconsciously attempts to take care of the extroverted side of things, if the two are thinking types, then one would try to fill the resulting emotional void etc. Different backgrounds and function developments of Identical partners could help in this case, however as with any other relationship there has to be a driving force behind it to keep it going.

I'm wondering if my brother and his wife could be identicals who have just learned to play different roles in the marriage. They've been married for 10 years and run a business together. They are both artists but each bring very different talents and skills to the table yet I feel like they are the same at the core and have that sort of deep understanding--the kind that identicals would seem to have where they completely "get" each other. Has anyone seen this in action (identicals taking the role of the dual)?

[Exodus]

I know an INTj who is probably married to his identical (I don't know her very well). I see very little evidence of him taking the role of the dual - in fact the opposite. He is very TiNe, and uses his strengths maturely.

I have taken the role of the dual in my casual interactions with other INTjs, especially with Ti subtypes. With Ne subtypes it goes back and forth.

I think long-term romantic Identity relationships are rare.

[KSpin]

Maybe because there would be no mystery in the relationship?

[Expat]

I know a couple who I think is ISFj-ISFj. In that case, the guy takes over the "ENTj" role.

[redbaron]

I know a couple who I think is ISFj-ISFj. In that case, the guy takes over the "ENTj" role.

I'm wondering if my brother and sister-in-law are ISFp and my SIL takes over the ENTp when they are functioning as a couple. It feels like objectively they are ISFps but with each other, my brother is more introverted and more sensing and more feeling than she is, so they seem to balance each other as duals. I don't know if that makes sense or not but that's how it feels. It's like they are identical when facing the rest of the world but when facing each other, they are suddenly complementary. Perhaps this is just my own perception. Is that how a dual relationship seems to outsiders?

[jewels]

I don't know of any identicals in a long-term relationship. I dated a couple of ENFP guys and it was weird. It was like, I knew exactly what they were thinking, so I was really bored.

The first time I met one of them I noticed he was acting charming, complimentary and not offensive at all. Then I realized I was acting the exact same way. We even had a similar speech pattern. It kinda freaked me out. And then I got really bored because I could figure out how he'd react to everything.

Sometimes I actually find other ENFPs kinda annoying. especially when they're scatterbrained or over-react to things. But I guess it's true the things that bug you about yourself, bother you more in other people.

[redbaron]

So I'm thinking now that my sister-in-law is indeed my brother's dual. I went back and re-read the ENTp description and it really does sound like her. (my brother is ISFp, most likely) Makes sense.

[soapofsappho]

I've heard that when identicals are together long-term, say in a serious romantic relationship, one of them takes on the role of the dual, effectively acting as the dual to the other.

But what I've observed of one pair of identicals in particular is that one of them "stays" the type (not making much or any effort to change at all) while the other keeps sort of trying to act as the dual, but a bit clumsily. It's awkward.

Other observations or experiences? I'm wondering whether this is just these two, or if this is more the trend.

[fen]

Duality is a bogus relationship ideal.
I think in relationships with identicals, say between two IEEs, they can both do "caregiver" stuff for each other.
Relationships are two way streets, and if only one person is doing the bending and adjusting, as in your observation of an identisis couple, it will likely fail. One person is compromising more than the other, and eventually they will grow weary and conflict will arise.

[FoxOnStilts]

Yes, I noticed that and did it myself in an identical relationship. After me trying to dual got exhausting, we both sat around for a few weeks playing world of Warcraft, not bathing, and building forts out of all the pizza boxes we had ordered. were really good friends now, so it's whatever.

[Radio]

identical relationships feel like incest. they're gross. no thx.

[fen]

Meh, I'm tired of people relishing in their type's fallbacks and weak spots.
You don't have to be inept at Si, or Ti, or Ne, or anything. Work on that stuff and stop celebrating weakness just because Socionics gives you a cover for it.
Take some responsibility for these things and work on them.
A dual might take over these weak spots for you, but what reason does that dynamic then give you to grow? Seems like stagnation to me.

[FoxOnStilts]

Meh, I'm tired of people relishing in their type's fallbacks and weak spots.
You don't have to be inept at Si, or Ti, or Ne, or anything. Work on that stuff and stop celebrating weakness just because Socionics gives you a cover for it.
Take some responsibility for these things and work on them.

I don't think anyone suggested that was the case [in this thread, that is].

[fen]

Well I didn't say it for no reason.

[FoxOnStilts]

Well I didn't say it for no reason.

It might be worth making a thread on that subject, however, if you think it's an issue instead of making random posts in a thread that the subject wasn't brought up in at all. That would facilitate more discussion than bringing it up in a thread that's really not made for that and more for comparing experiences. I don't disagree with you, but it comes off as somewhat hostile, especially when no one was "celebrating" what they suck at or saying that duality is the One True Relationship.

[fen]

It was in response to not bathing because someone else didn't remind you to. >.>
You don't need an SEI around to remind you to bathe. You are an adult and can bathe yourself.
I don't mean this in an inflammatory way towards you Fox. It's just the pattern of this kind of thinking that's annoying.

[FoxOnStilts]

It was in response to not bathing because someone else didn't remind you to. >.>
You don't need an SEI around to remind you to bathe. You are an adult and can bathe yourself.
I don't mean this in an inflammatory way towards you Fox. It's just the pattern of this kind of thinking that's annoying.

rofl okay whatever. That was obvious hyperbole. I didn't expect that someone would actually think I didn't bathe for weeks.

[fen]

Yeah I definitely didn't require a link to the definition of hyperbole. I managed to pass the 6th grade.

[FoxOnStilts]

Yeah I definitely didn't require a link to the definition of hyperbole. I managed to pass the 6th grade.

You took what was a hyperbole as fact, so I thought it was better to be safe than sorry.

[Radio]

WHAT ARE YOU GUYS DOING

STOP BEING SUCH ******S

MOVING ON

[fen]

In the event I didn't know the meaning of the word, I could have looked it up myself.

Also, how can an actual occurrence be a hyperbole? I have heard you talk about the whole WoW/not bathing thing with your ex before. It's not a hyperbole if it actually happened.

Edit: I love you Radio.

[FoxOnStilts]

Also, how can an actual occurrence be a hyperbole? I have heard you talk about the whole WoW/not bathing thing with your ex before. It's not a hyperbole if it actually happened.

I'm sure you've only said "boy, this weighs a ton!" once, because if you say it more than once, then it had to have actually happened.

[Hitta]

Socionics styled relationships are illogical because they don't conform to the natural order of things. If one were to consider a relationship a equilibrium equation between different molecules or compounds, the interactions that take the longest to reach equilibrium state are those that are more complex. When I think of the idea of duality, I think of this couple that sort of just sits and reads the newspaper together. It is a highly flawed abstract concept that it seems this entire forum clings to like its some wisdom of the gods. The whole idea of balance is contradictory to the transformation and change that is necessary to keep a relationship interesting.

[FoxOnStilts]

A dual might take over these weak spots for you, but what reason does that dynamic then give you to grow? Seems like stagnation to me.

I do think you should make a thread about this, though, because duality isn't supposed to cover your weak spots, but encourage them to use them better yourself. Hence the 'dualization' aspect. Then people can also draw conclusions off of this from superego, kindred, supervisor, supervisee and conflictor relationships, because the superego is weaker than the super-id and talk about how those relationships are useful as well.

[tcaudilllg]

Penny and Leonard are my fav dual couple.

[717495]

Penny and Leonard are my fav dual couple.

mine too. in fact I never even realized.

[anndelise]

Personally, I find that when my dual's around, my weak spots are covered and it's lovely, but when they aren't around, I'm better at seeing what should be done in whatever scenario and doing it myself. Learning by example

While Richard's a semi-dual rather than dual, I've learned a lot while being with him. I'm better now at managing my money...though I still go through spending sprees sometimes, and I can't seem to manage to save money. But I'm waaaay better than I used to be. And after his asking me if I'm sure I really want an item...I now ask myself that more often. I'm also significantly calmer than I used to be, even when he's not present.