Ennagram types 8w9 and 1w9

[UDP]

How do you tell these apart?

It is difficult for me. The one's focus on morality and self restraint seems to be more "me". However, whenever I am involved in anything I go as high into the system as possible - it is extremely difficult for me to be part of an organization and just be "a regular member" or sitting on the outside. I gravitate towards position of responsibility and control.


The ennagram institute offers some examples of each. Does anyone know any videos online for such? Or anything else that would help differentiate between the two?


http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeOne.asp
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeEight.asp

Here, I relate to 1 a bit more, because it is less "human"
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/1growth.asp
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/8growth.asp

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/1and8.asp

http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/chwings.htm

[UDP]

Captain Planet: how about this
Captain Planet: does this sound like 8degenerate 5
Captain Planet: Basically I am either involved a great deal, or not at all.
Captain Planet: like in hall council
Captain Planet: I will either hold a position or gain 'power' somehow
Captain Planet: or I will just not spend my time there.

I would see a 1 doing something more "because it is the right thing to do", however, and be more comfortable with a lower position.

[aka-kitsune]

In general, Ones as a group are extremely idealistic and highly moral. Often to the point of compulsion, actually. Eights never occur to me as "controlled", even the w9s. And usually either amoral, or follow their own personal version of morality, but undefined as such.

Ones have a very rigid kind of persona that they naturally default to. Eights seem much more comfortable with themselves. Also, I've never found Eights to be introverted. Not that one could never be, but IME, they simply aren't. Eight energy is not introverted. One self-control lends itself more naturally to introversion at times, although I've known I as well as E Ones.

This may help clarify also:

"Perfectionists and Protectors can be considered "look-alike" types because both are Body Center (gut) types and are concerned with rightness, justice, truth and fairness. Protectors (8s) however, state their truth openly, express their anger directly, and go from impulse to action easily. Perfectionists (1) suppress anger and impulse, becoming resentful and tense until a sense of righteousness allows their anger to spill out."

The Essential Enneagram
David Daniels/Virginia Price

Inhibition seems to be the key word for me in telling these types apart. Eights are not inhibited; Ones are. How you deal with anger is usually a good differentiator.

[UDP]

Can you give me a concrete example of that inhibition?

That post does not really seem to help me differentiate between 1 and 8

[Gilly]

Can I be the first to say that I TOTALLY saw this coming?

[Ezra]

UDP, you haven't expressed particularly 8-like sentiments. Wanting to get to the top of an organisation for an 8 is because they can't stand being controlled by a force other than themself. The 1 might do the same thing, but they do it because think they can do the best job.

How you deal with anger is usually a good differentiator.

Also, UDP, pay attention to this. I'm sure I've told you about it before. It's one of the most effective ways to tell apart a 1 and an 8.

[UDP]

Can I be the first to say that I TOTALLY saw this coming?

? Explain. It is something I have mentioned for a while, but I figured I would address it directly. What are your thoughts?

Also, UDP, pay attention to this. I'm sure I've told you about it before. It's one of the most effective ways to tell apart a 1 and an 8.

Examples?

[Gilly]

My thoughts are that you considered 8 before, dismissed it fairly easily despite your obvious desire to be a leader, and are now quite predictably reconsidering it as it obviously correlates with your recent switch to LSE.

[UDP]

My thoughts are that you considered 8 before, dismissed it fairly easily despite your obvious desire to be a leader, and are now quite predictably reconsidering it as it obviously correlates with your recent switch to LSE.

I tested as an 8 even before I came to socionics. 1, 5, 8. I know I am not a 5, and I wonder if 5 was my "regression".

[Gilly]

The thought of you testing as an 8 seems ludicrous to me. What or who have you ever actually led? 8s are almost always fairly verbal, if not downright loud, competitive, and they like to tell people what to do and be in charge. When I picture you IRL, I see a pretty quiet guy who's not about to go around being the boss. Sure, you might not hesitate to use authority if you have it, but you certainly wouldn't be one to establish it or even actively seek it unless it was necessary in your master plan. That's where the 1 comes in, I think, and I absolutely see you as a 1.

[aka-kitsune]

Can you give me a concrete example of that inhibition?

Why don't you give us a concrete example of how you deal with anger? Do you hold it in until you shriek in holy righteous anger? Or do you level everyone around you with unmitigable rage?

Former = 1
Latter = 8

That post does not really seem to help me differentiate between 1 and 8

Why don't you re-read it...? Slo-w--ly. It's pretty clear.

[UDP]

[UDP]

edited

[UDP]

The thought of you testing as an 8 seems ludicrous to me. What or who have you ever actually led? 8s are almost always fairly verbal, if not downright loud, competitive, and they like to tell people what to do and be in charge. When I picture you IRL, I see a pretty quiet guy who's not about to go around being the boss. Sure, you might not hesitate to use authority if you have it, but you certainly wouldn't be one to establish it or even actively seek it unless it was necessary in your master plan. That's where the 1 comes in, I think, and I absolutely see you as a 1.

Now, I might be a 1, as it still reads in my sig, but that is not at all a realistic portrayal of me.

I seem quiet because spending time with other people is, briefly, extremely boring -- in terms of doing what my average college peers enjoy doing. That is why my schedule is going to be packed up the ass this year.

And consequently, that is why I am easily irritated right now, because the first three days were great, but the last two were totally empty -boring.

[aka-kitsune]

Shrieking in holy righteous anger. Got it. 1w9. :wink:

[UDP]

Shrieking in holy righteous anger. Got it. 1w9. :wink:

Why did you wink?

What would the opposite be? You have to understand your definitions are from your own personal perspective.



PS: I hate the word shrieking - it sounds pathetic, so your labeling that as one of the options is automatically repulsive.

[UDP]

The problem is that your description sounds so outrageously biased towards making type 8 anger seeming better, and type 1 anger seeming weak and wimpy, that it is hard to understand what you really are saying.

It is like, do you think you sound like a volcano, or do you think you sound like a 13 year old girl. Obviously no one is going to say the latter.

[Gilly]

No, that's how YOU see it, which is precisely why you want to be an 8.

I'm done with you for now. I've been through these stages, too; you just have to figure yourself out on your own, brother.

[Gilly]

Although I will say that 'shrieking' has negative connotations, AK.

[UDP]

I don't care honestly if I am a 1 or 8, I just want to be sure.

For now, lets say I am 1w9 - if that fits best.

[Ezra]

Also, UDP, pay attention to this. I'm sure I've told you about it before. It's one of the most effective ways to tell apart a 1 and an 8.

Examples?[/quote]

8: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING? PUT MY FUCKING CDs BACK IN THE CORRECT ORDER YOU FUCKING RETARD! I'VE TOLD YOU BEFORE!!"
*After no reply*
Rebel: "OW! What was that for!"
8: "FOR NOT LISTENING TO ME YOU FUCK!"

1: *Showing signs of fury boiling underneath, and being poorly but nonetheless controlled* "UDP, I do not appreciate the way you take my CDs and leave them scattered around the house. Please pick them up and put them back in the correct order."
*After no reply*
1: "UDP, put my CDs back please."
Rebel: "And if I don't?"
1: "Put them back, now."

[Ezra]

UDP, I don't think you're an 8. Even an 8w9. I think you should stick to 1w9.

[aka-kitsune]

Although I will say that 'shrieking' has negative connotations, AK.

Well... that's how 1 anger often comes across to me. Shrill and indignant, usually accompanied/underpinned by a moral judgement. I'm actually quite scared of 8 anger though. It's explosive and leveling. 8s can tend toward violence too. If that sounds like "better" anger, well, I can't agree.

One anger is also usually more frequently vented at "nonthreat" objects (I know a 1 with serious road rage) which don't evoke any kind of guilt associations. Anger vented at intimates brings immediate guilt. Also -- ones are typically sarcastic and critical, as this is one of the expressions of their underlying anger. Eight's anger doesn't discriminate. 8w9s are generally more capable than 8w7s of knowing how to control their anger so that it doesn't cause harm.

So, in general, a 1's anger leaves less fallout than an 8's.

Keep in mind also that 1s are more indirect, 8s are direct. A offended 1 will very likely give you the silent treatment, and will hold grudges until/if you acknowledge that they were right. They archly retreat into coldness. With an 8, once the situation blows over, it is forgotten.

[Ezra]

I'm actually quite scared of 8 anger though. It's explosive and leveling. 8s can tend toward violence too. If that sounds like "better" anger, well, I can't agree.

There's no need to be. You know some unhealthy 8s if they actually hit out at you. These are weak 8s. The 8's anger is designed to do exactly as you described - level. It is there to move you into action. You stick up for yourself and don't show cowardice, and an 8 will respect you. They won't fuck you up physically unless they have to. And only bullies (not 8s) will physically hurt you unprovoked.

[UDP]

I definitely have set myself on 1w9.

The 9wing makes a lot of sense, particularly now I am interacting with people on a regular basis.

It is an unusual mixture... and I realize I am flexible to the environment. I will generally balance out things, so I imagine that is so. I may be so/sx. I can be extremely critical in a way I can only see as being 1... and depending on where that criticism lies, it will make me more personable or less. But it is always there.

Perhaps related to 9wing, perhaps not: I realize seem decades "older" than most everyone around me, regardless of age. Like, a few people I was working with for some things commented on how they thought I was taking it personally when they were joking around because I wasn't going with them about things. But in reality I was just not paying attention to them either way. Perhaps it is one of those disregard for Fe things that makes me come off as extremely cold or unemotional at times.

((But at the same time, it makes me think about all the great delta and even gamma types I know, and makes me really feel like I'm glad to have INFj as my dual ))

[Ezra]

Yeah, I think it's unbelievable that Joy thinks you're ethical. I think she just puts ESI for anyone really who are tough to type. I think most people do it.