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Fox Mulder and Dana Scully from the X-Files
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Last edited by marooned; 01-26-2009 at 09:44 PM.
You: So my main conundrum is that everything about him really seems like an F to me... except that he isn't emotionally expressive. He appears like a logical type. He keeps an open mind and tries to be objective. But he isn't unsympathetic or unempathetic to others. But, to contradict myself suddenly, I did notice he fails to notice Scully's emotional turmoil at times. He seems so distracted by his quest for "the Truth" that he may sometimes not notice the feelings of others, or what they're going through right away. And that would be more T-like. I think an F would put feelings first... so that is certainly a snag.
Me: Fi-types aren't particularly emotionally expressive. ENFps are noted for being studious, it's a matter of self-appraisal to them. They're also known for occasionally being selfish pricks. Mulder is also heavily Ne-based so the preference of Fi over Ti is not as clear as it could be, but he still follows ENFp patterns rather than ENTp ones. I see no mystery here.
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
I see Fox Moulder as an INTj. He's Ti-oriented, by this I mean that success for him is determined by his own internalized conceptions of success.... so he doesn't try to get to the top of the FBI or acquire social prestige but instead is content with a position that will let him attain his own goals. Also he doesn't have Fe, you'll notice that he has episodes where he loses control and acts out rashly - this seems common in logical types (whereas in ethical types their emotional frustrations leak out more often and are even used a tool to manipulate the situation)
INFp-Ni
He easily gets carried away with his obsession (weird cases). Overall conclusion is ENTp.
EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
E3 (probably 3w4)
Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!
Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/
I actually think that INTj is a pretty good suggestion, though for different reasons than I expect the people present will really get, (what I mean is INTj is more likely than ENTp for example). But the thing about messiness is true. The causticity that misutii suggested as reason for T can equally be attributed to Ep temperament though. And misutii's understanding of Ti in relation to goals is completely wrong. Personal (as in not commonly accepted) goals are more attributable to Ne.
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
No, it's your understanding of my understanding that is wrong. Functions don't operate on their own. Ti and Ne need to work together and your post merely clarified my own. Moulder's personal goals (and interest in the paranormal) can be attributed to Ne and his perserverance in carrying them out (the whole "I believe" thing) is Ti. Anyways the Filatova description suits him quite well.Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
I don't think his messiness has any real relevance to him being J or P, unless we're typing him by MBTI standards. There's already been ALOT of discussions on this forum that have dismissed the whole "Js are always neat and tidy and Ps are always messy and chaotic" myth.
I don't think there's really any validity to labelling him ENTp. ENTps are much more concerned with how others see them and with social prestige in general. Moulder doesn't seem to pay much attention to how he presents himself. ENTps seem inclined to 'play the game' -they tend to be very charming and charasmatic. Moulder in comparison keeps to himself, does his own thing, is internally motivated. While my method of "causticity", in terms of typing others, may seem unorthodox and even confuse you, put it into perspective before dismissing it. When I explain things like Ti and Ne, and tendencies of types I am doing so subjectively from my personal perspective. For example, I differentiate between INTj and ENTp as an INFp does so don't expect any Te in my analysis.
misutii:
That was just sad. You're misusing terminology and don't apparently know anything about anything. Study more.
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
Rick has typed David D as an INFj. I concur with that.
Have you noticed that Moulder never really throws punches etc that i remember? He always gets knocked over by some running creature etc. Low
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
David as INFj is believable. Also increases the possibility of why someone would suggest INTj for the character.Rick has typed David D as an INFj. I concur with that.
Have you noticed that Moulder never really throws punches etc that i remember? He always gets knocked over by some running creature etc. Low
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
not sure about mulder being intj. he's faster on his feet than they usually are, no offense to any intj's here. he's also more emotionally expressive than an intj would be. he seems more perceiving than judging for sure. i agree with loki that Ne or Ni is the lead function. he's clearly intuitive, perceiving, and a smart feeler.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Excuse me little boy but it's funny that you'd say that, especially considering that you yourself haven't contributed anything even remotely significant to this thread. Your words read like the petitions that schoolchildren recently sent to the astronomical museum in New York, pleading in an ignorantly authoratative tone that Pluto not lose it's status as a planet because it's their favourite planet, that people that actually know what they're talking about don't have the right to denounce Pluto's status in our solar system because things should remain the same so that poor, confused little minds be spared any such tortuous discomfort. However, the most knawing qualm I have with this analogy, the one that eventually separates you, and places you at a level lower than these children, is that unlike them you didn't even bother to pick up a crayon and trace me a picture that would maybe serve to endow you with a few drops of petty sympathy before I laughed mockingly in your face.
So be a nice little boy "Smilingeyes", pick up those crayons you've been neglecting and show the class what you know or else I'm going to have to take away your recess. You're going to miss out on all the fun the other children are having... and because now I've decided that the year should be... oh let's see... how about 1930, it means that you're going to spend our precious, albeit forgettable, time together with your eyes staring firmly at your toes, and your arms held out straight in front of you, so that I can see those nasty little idle hands of yours, which, unfortunately, due to regulations outside of my control, I must now begrudgingly proceed to whack raw with the classroom's metre-stick, which, due to budget cuts, will of course have to double for a daunting leather strap in your own imagination. But anyways back to those nasty little idle hands of yours, yes those loathingly despicable creatures. I promise I'll stop whacking them once they appear to become appeasingly raw enough, you know, once the skin begins to peel away, revealing the pinker, more tender layers underneath, the purer layers your beady little eyes haven't yet had the time to taint with their disgusting glare. But please don't worry dear because at least when we're done those ragged mangled paws that exist where your hands used to be will actually serve to function in your own interest. At least then you'll have a reasonable excuse to neglect ever having to pick up another crayon again.
Aww... oh I know, being that I'm such a kind and gentle mentor I just couldn't wait until recess! There's ice in the fridge down the hall if you need it, which you do because it's impolite to bleed on everything you know. What? You need someone to open the door for you? Why can't you use your mouth?... oh wait we need that for tomorrow's lesson...
Ok. So I hurt your feelings and now you abandoned the subject matter and just play for the audience. I'm mean. I also happen to be right. And your two posts above had 8 easily identifiable errors that betray that you don't understand the system. So if I didn't bother to heavily discuss my position, at least I pointed to the right direction whereas you're just misleading people and trolling. You need to actually know or understand something before you can assume any authority. But I ask myself, do I really, really care about anyone that considers anything you write and I find that the answer is negative. So keep playing to the audience. Undoubtedly they'll give you cheers for being such a capable wielder of the written word and inventing many supposedly hurtful things to say. Good luck, you'll need it.Excuse me little boy but it's funny that you'd say that, especially considering that you yourself haven't contributed anything even remotely significant to this thread. Your words read like the petitions that schoolchildren recently sent to the astronomical museum in New York, pleading in an ignorantly authoratative tone that Pluto not lose it's status as a planet because it's their favourite planet, that people that actually know what they're talking about don't have the right to denounce Pluto's status in our solar system because things should remain the same so that poor, confused little minds be spared any such tortuous discomfort. However, the most knawing qualm I have with this analogy, the one that eventually separates you, and places you at a level lower than these children, is that unlike them you didn't even bother to pick up a crayon and trace me a picture that would maybe serve to endow you with a few drops of petty sympathy before I laughed mockingly in your face.
So be a nice little boy "Smilingeyes", pick up those crayons you've been neglecting and show the class what you know or else I'm going to have to take away your recess. You're going to miss out on all the fun the other children are having... and because now I've decided that the year should be... oh let's see... how about 1930, it means that you're going to spend our precious, albeit forgettable, time together with your eyes staring firmly at your toes, and your arms held out straight in front of you, so that I can see those nasty little idle hands of yours, which, unfortunately, due to regulations outside of my control, I must now begrudgingly proceed to whack raw with the classroom's metre-stick, which, due to budget cuts, will of course have to double for a daunting leather strap in your own imagination. But anyways back to those nasty little idle hands of yours, yes those loathingly despicable creatures. I promise I'll stop whacking them once they appear to become appeasingly raw enough, you know, once the skin begins to peel away, revealing the pinker, more tender layers underneath, the purer layers your beady little eyes haven't yet had the time to taint with their disgusting glare. But please don't worry dear because at least when we're done those ragged mangled paws that exist where your hands used to be will actually serve to function in your own interest. At least then you'll have a reasonable excuse to neglect ever having to pick up another crayon again.
Aww... oh I know, being that I'm such a kind and gentle mentor I just couldn't wait until recess! There's ice in the fridge down the hall if you need it, which you do because it's impolite to bleed on everything you know. What? You need someone to open the door for you? Why can't you use your mouth?... oh wait we need that for tomorrow's lesson...
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
^Can this be considered ESTj-INFp conflict relations?
Example:
PoLR
(Sorry, I can't help but comment.)
psssss he's rightExcuse me little boy but it's funny that you'd say that, especially considering that you yourself haven't contributed anything even remotely significant to this thread. Your words read like the petitions that schoolchildren recently sent to the astronomical museum in New York, pleading in an ignorantly authoratative tone that Pluto not lose it's status as a planet because it's their favourite planet, that people that actually know what they're talking about don't have the right to denounce Pluto's status in our solar system because things should remain the same so that poor, confused little minds be spared any such tortuous discomfort. However, the most knawing qualm I have with this analogy, the one that eventually separates you, and places you at a level lower than these children, is that unlike them you didn't even bother to pick up a crayon and trace me a picture that would maybe serve to endow you with a few drops of petty sympathy before I laughed mockingly in your face.
So be a nice little boy "Smilingeyes", pick up those crayons you've been neglecting and show the class what you know or else I'm going to have to take away your recess. You're going to miss out on all the fun the other children are having... and because now I've decided that the year should be... oh let's see... how about 1930, it means that you're going to spend our precious, albeit forgettable, time together with your eyes staring firmly at your toes, and your arms held out straight in front of you, so that I can see those nasty little idle hands of yours, which, unfortunately, due to regulations outside of my control, I must now begrudgingly proceed to whack raw with the classroom's metre-stick, which, due to budget cuts, will of course have to double for a daunting leather strap in your own imagination. But anyways back to those nasty little idle hands of yours, yes those loathingly despicable creatures. I promise I'll stop whacking them once they appear to become appeasingly raw enough, you know, once the skin begins to peel away, revealing the pinker, more tender layers underneath, the purer layers your beady little eyes haven't yet had the time to taint with their disgusting glare. But please don't worry dear because at least when we're done those ragged mangled paws that exist where your hands used to be will actually serve to function in your own interest. At least then you'll have a reasonable excuse to neglect ever having to pick up another crayon again.
Aww... oh I know, being that I'm such a kind and gentle mentor I just couldn't wait until recess! There's ice in the fridge down the hall if you need it, which you do because it's impolite to bleed on everything you know. What? You need someone to open the door for you? Why can't you use your mouth?... oh wait we need that for tomorrow's lesson...
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I think the character is an ENTp.
The actor seems INTj/INFj
Sure. Though there's a bit of the supervisory activity from my part. I can't for the life of me consider myself weak in^Can this be considered ESTj-INFp conflict relations?
Example:
(Sorry, I can't help but comment.)at the moment. Misutii seems to be quite vexed but I'm not getting the "oh no, I'm in trouble, everything's falling apart vibe" -myself. Perhaps I should. Perhaps that's my mistake. Hmm. And that means that I've been trouncing someone's polr from a position of strength which is always unfair and quite unbecoming.
Misutii:
I sincerely apologize and withdraw from this conversation.
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
i was thinking precisely the same thing. lol.^Can this be considered ESTj-INFp conflict relations?
Example:
(Sorry, I can't help but comment.)
man this shit is on the money.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
No offense taken, though are you sure you're not asserting control where you have none?
Sure. Though there's a bit of the supervisory activity from my part. I can't for the life of me consider myself weak in
Misutii:
I sincerely apologize and withdraw from this conversation.
Rewind a few posts and you'll find I said:
Justifiably predicting that you'd rely on Te to prove anything you wanted to prove
Fast Forward:
Notice all the little fun grammatical and tense errors I purposefully left you to count in my reply? I.e. suddenly going back to 1930 in my little story wasn't accidental, I was remembering how my ENTj friend absolutely despised the movie "The Fountain" for going back and forward in time and failing to maintain a continual linear story. Disappointingly you didn't get my drift but you still counted the errors in the previous posts which is amusing. While you've repeatedly denounced my replies as histrionic displays meant for the enjoyment of others you've continually failed to notice the ways I made them for you. When I type others I do so on the basis of an intuitive vibe, something I don't think you understand as it makes you uncomfortable, just as you admitted INTj was a better suggestion than ENTp, but unable to grasp the process by which I came to the conclusion of INTj you reverted to Te to point out terminological errors. Kind of like how Te-oriented math teachers don't give their students full marks on correct answers to math questions when the whole process has not been shown...Ok. So I hurt your feelings and now you abandoned the subject matter and just play for the audience. I'm mean. I also happen to be right. And your two posts above had 8 easily identifiable errors that betray that you don't understand the system. So if I didn't bother to heavily discuss my position, at least I pointed to the right direction whereas you're just misleading people and trolling. You need to actually know or understand something before you can assume any authority. But I ask myself, do I really, really care about anyone that considers anything you write and I find that the answer is negative. So keep playing to the audience. Undoubtedly they'll give you cheers for being such a capable wielder of the written word and inventing many supposedly hurtful things to say. Good luck, you'll need it.Excuse me little boy but it's funny that you'd say that, especially considering that you yourself haven't contributed anything even remotely significant to this thread. Your words read like the petitions that schoolchildren recently sent to the astronomical museum in New York, pleading in an ignorantly authoratative tone that Pluto not lose it's status as a planet because it's their favourite planet, that people that actually know what they're talking about don't have the right to denounce Pluto's status in our solar system because things should remain the same so that poor, confused little minds be spared any such tortuous discomfort. However, the most knawing qualm I have with this analogy, the one that eventually separates you, and places you at a level lower than these children, is that unlike them you didn't even bother to pick up a crayon and trace me a picture that would maybe serve to endow you with a few drops of petty sympathy before I laughed mockingly in your face.
So be a nice little boy "Smilingeyes", pick up those crayons you've been neglecting and show the class what you know or else I'm going to have to take away your recess. You're going to miss out on all the fun the other children are having... and because now I've decided that the year should be... oh let's see... how about 1930, it means that you're going to spend our precious, albeit forgettable, time together with your eyes staring firmly at your toes, and your arms held out straight in front of you, so that I can see those nasty little idle hands of yours, which, unfortunately, due to regulations outside of my control, I must now begrudgingly proceed to whack raw with the classroom's metre-stick, which, due to budget cuts, will of course have to double for a daunting leather strap in your own imagination. But anyways back to those nasty little idle hands of yours, yes those loathingly despicable creatures. I promise I'll stop whacking them once they appear to become appeasingly raw enough, you know, once the skin begins to peel away, revealing the pinker, more tender layers underneath, the purer layers your beady little eyes haven't yet had the time to taint with their disgusting glare. But please don't worry dear because at least when we're done those ragged mangled paws that exist where your hands used to be will actually serve to function in your own interest. At least then you'll have a reasonable excuse to neglect ever having to pick up another crayon again.
Aww... oh I know, being that I'm such a kind and gentle mentor I just couldn't wait until recess! There's ice in the fridge down the hall if you need it, which you do because it's impolite to bleed on everything you know. What? You need someone to open the door for you? Why can't you use your mouth?... oh wait we need that for tomorrow's lesson...
I know what I'm talking about, the reason we're debating though is because I'm trying to get you to see things my way whereas you're prematurely dismissing my way as a heathen approach as is prescribed on page 3523 of the holy scientific socionic methodology of objective typing codex
Mulder and Scully from the X-Files
What are the types for agents Mulder and Scully from the X-Files?
Didn't find an existing thread on this, surprisingly.
Mulder: INTj
Scully: ESTj
Interesting. Those were also my first impressions.
<3 Mulder
old thread. old show. but i just started last night. i was dissapointed i could only watch 2 episodes before i couldn't stay awake any longer. i love the way the characters personalities play off of eachother and complement eachother (even if its a totally obvious plot device.)
i thought scully seemed Ij (and sorta relatable) and mulder, i dunno, intuitive? but ive seen very little of it, obviously.
@lecter, @truck, still the same thoughts?
(also i know its an old show but if you could try not to spoil it for me pretty please)
You sound like Asston
I think he's the same type as the lead guy in californication
I haven't seen this in a while and didn't watch it a lot, but maybe she is ESTj both in character and real life, and he is some IJ irl but playing a different or indeterminate IJ. Regardless it is an EJ - IJ relationship I think, and cute.
I don't remember much about it, just highlights of a few episodes that I enjoyed but I agree with those typings.... they had that ij/ej chemistry thing going on.
I don't remember much either, but as far as I remember, Mulder could be LII and Scully LxE.
They're a Beta Rational duality I think. Mulder is the visionary, pushing forward his own peculiar view of the world, believing because he wants to believe, relentlessly pushing forward. Scully is his more down to Earth, organized counterpart, who is difficult to convince that there are possibilities beyond her comfort zone, beyond what she considers to be "real."
I've seen them types IEE/SLI elsewhere, and indeed Beta Rationals and Delta Irrationals are somewhat similar in that respect to one another, but where the difference lies is that LSIs stand their ground and explain their reasoning clearly -- there is more active discourse in the way that Mulder and Scully have. With IEE/SLI the SLI simply remains skeptical of the IEE's ideas (often genuinely raving, as the IEE will not suffer such pedestrian obstacles as "logic" or "reason" to interfere with their speculation) but facilitates or blocks their path as needed in order to maintain a harmonious environment. A possible example of such duality would be Calvin and Hobbes.
What do these signs mean—,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
hah. i don't remember my original post, but i know it covered this. this is probably a good paraphrasing. and really it is embarrassing, this lame categorization. but there was a reason that i can't share (because that would be beyond embarrassing and would enter into the territory of shame). it was a reaction to something to point out how i felt someone's assessment of my type didn't make sense. i was relating to mulder in a way. since then of course (i mean i hadn't even begun to really fall into the hell of socionics when i posted this) i've taken a (several) step(s) back and i'm unsure of mulder as iee or ile. but whatever.
my current thoughts for these characters are that mulder is either iee or ile. scully is possibly esi.
i don't see them as duals. scully consistently criticizes mulder for out "out there" all of his ideas are (she was hired to do this right from the beginning in fact). she is consistently closed off to these unusual/paranormal possibilities, to the point almost of refusing to see certain things. she wants hard facts and evidence--but she also is willing to apply science to whatever mulder is doing.
for reasons i can't explain, scully's personal episodes concerning her faith & her diary entries/narration (especially when she's dying or when she's trying to save mulder from dying) have a very fi leading & ni ha feel to me. but i'm not totally sure about this... i had considered lsi for scully as well before.
Yeah Mulder is probably ILE and Scully? Dunno ESI makes some sense I suppose but LSI could fit also.
John Doggett is LSI as fuck. The last few episodes of the 8th season were basically Mulder ass raping his Ne PoLR. Refusing to believe alternative possibilities or that one is in fact mistaken despite the evidence hitting one firmly in the face because of unresolved emotional problems caused by past trauma? -- um yup.
Mulder: INFj
Scully: ESTj
David Duchovny: INFj
Gillian Anderson: E**j
Imho, Mulder as LII makes more sense, mostly bcoz if i were to fill in the space around him, so to speak, with ...something, it would be something that completely accommodates him in his endeavors, so maybe an ESE? Mulder also has a strange mysticism about him (his particular ways of venturing into the unknown) which i've come to associate with LII.
I don't know Scully's type.
I'm also not sold on Duchovny being EII. Of course I could be wrong, but i'd personally say FI is likely just dry and somewhat withdrawn rather than 'inexpressive'. And i don't get the impression of someone somewhat 'withdrawn' with Duchovny, he seems rather bold in his own peculiar way. I'd suggest alpha NT for Duchovny.
Anyway, i wanted to comment bcoz i used to love this show when i was really little (? i daren't even say 'young' lol).
ETA: Duchovny's ex, Tea Leoni, seems SLI to me, fwiw.
Well, not all EIIs are Ne sub, you know.
Regardless, David D. doesn't seem to value Fe in the slightest.
Scully LSI
Mulder ILE
Scully could be LSI. Seems kinda cool supervision. Reminds me of few female LSI's I have met.
Watched a little bit of the pilot. Mulder and Scully meet... an instant Ti exchange.
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 04-25-2020 at 07:42 PM.
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