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Thread: Theory of Super Transcendence

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    Default Theory of Super Transcendence

    The purpose of this theory is to state that there are two divisions of functions for each type, and that the information elements in a given division are theoretically all the same information elements, or they manifest themselves in the same way exact way. One division is composed of functions 1,3,5,7. The second division is composed of 2,4,6,8. Division one will be called the base division. Division two will be referred to as the creative division. 1,2 are core functions. 3,4 are weak functions. 5,6 are agenda functions. 7,8 are unseen functions. In functional polarity, there is a positive information element and a negative information element. The positive and negative information elements are like the opposite of each other in the same field or area of expertise. Also in types, there is a strong portion(functions 1,2,5,6) and a weak invisible portion(3,4,7,8). I am going to use INTj as an example to describe my theory. INTj's creative agenda function is -Fe/+Fi. -Fe would be consider the act of influencing behavior through negative emotions(such as sarcasm). +Fi is all the positive emotions that an individual can feel, like happiness or sympathy. The weak creative block of an INTj is composed of -Fi/+Fe. -Fi is all the negative emotions of a person. Sadness, sorrow. +Fe is showing showing and influencing a person through positive emotions, like laughter and being nice. Step one in the Super Transcendence is to understand that these two blocks are the same. Lack of -Fi/+Fe means an +Fi/-Fe agenda. For example since an INTj has a hard time feeling negative emotions, the INTj will have a positive emotions agenda. Since the INTj has a hard time expressing and influencing a person through positive actions, then the INTj will have an agenda to express and influence emotions through negative things (sarcasm, rudeness). An INTjs 1 function is -Ti/+Te. Their 7 function is -Te/+Ti. -Ti is about paradoxes, classifications, analyzes, abstractness. +Te is about productivity, being economical(don't think of this term in a business sense), doing this slow and steady, adding positive components. -Te is about risks, performing in times of chaos, removing the negative components. +Ti is about reality, organization, hierarchy, following laws. My theory of Super Transcendence states that having -Ti/+Te in the 1 function, is the same as having -Te/+Ti in the 7 block. 7 is a lack of visible type of function. As looking at the descriptions of the functions, it is easy to see that -Ti is the opposite of +Te, and +Te is the opposite of -Te. The lack of having one would mean to have an abundance of the other. The last step is connecting the different information element types together. Having -Ti/+Te in the 1 spot will always mean that -Fe/+Fi is in the 5 spot. Having a need to show negative actions and emotions to people, according to the model is the same thing as having -Ti in the 1 function. Being analytical, paradoxical, and abstract is the same thing as having a need to show negative emotions. Its a hard connection to make, but its there. It has to be. Everytime -Ti/+Te is in the 1 function, -Fe/+Fi has to be in the 5. So all 4 functions in each division are theoretically the same thing. Anyone time -Ti/+Te is in the 1 function, +Se/-Si will always be in the 3, -Fe/+Fi will always be in the 5, -Te/+Ti will always be in the 7. This is the Theory of Super Transcendence.


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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Looks like we've got another tcaud in the making.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    This is difficult to read as is. Anything against paragraphs?
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Looks like we've got another tcaud in the making.
    And you think you're an ENTp?

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    You think that has anything to do with you being a complete nut? -Fi is not someone's "negative emotions;" that's probably the silliest thing I've heard you say yet
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You think that has anything to do with you being a complete nut? -Fi is not someone's "negative emotions;" that's probably the silliest thing I've heard you say yet
    Even Gulenko would disagree.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Prove it.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote from Gulenko:

    - R - (poor relations, hatred, hostility, antipathy, repulsion, the coldness of relations, alienation, unsociability, distant psychological distance, evil, mercilessness)',

    or in other words... the negative spectrum of emotions

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    From where?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    You lost me about half-way through. I think the only thing you really explained there is how the duality between ESFj and INTj works.

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    Their on this page, but I can't get it to translate properly:

    http://socionics.org/theory/Default....ad=p-func.html

    Sign description of the functions
    The analysis, carry ouied Gulenko, makes it possible to reveal more the "thin" structure of the mental functions of one form. Thus, "black ethics" Hamlet differs somewhat from the analogous function of Hugo. This difference it isolated with the aid of the signs + and -. Is given below the "interpretation" of these differences (what function for which "answers"):


    (+) positive emotions - happiness, merriment, emotional lift, enthusiasm, laughter, enthusiasm, optimism, a good mood, the experience of happiness; (in the first place this function in Hugo)

    (-) negative emotions - mountain, grief, melancholy, the emotional decrease, depression, weeping, tear, dissatisfaction, pessimism, poor mood, the experience of misfortune. (in the first place this function of Hamlet)


    (+) good relations - love, friendship, sympathy, attraction, heat of relations, sociability, close psychological distance, it is kind, pity; (in the first place this function in Dostoyevsky)

    (-) poor relations - hatred, hostility, antipathy, repulsion, alienation, unsociability, distant psychological distance, evil, mercilessness. (in the first place this function in Dreiser)


    [+) benefit, benefit, efficiency, technology, facts, acquisition, accumulation, purchase, economy, the guidance of order, practicalness; (in the first place this function in Shtirlitsa)

    (-) uselessness, disadvantageousness, use, application, wear, expenditures, expenditure, risk, experiment, sale, trade, action under the conditions of chaos, resourcefulness. (in the first place this function in the jack of London)


    (+) konkretika, detail, detailed study, carefulness, strictness, place into the hierarchy, the laws, the decisions, the instructions, the selection of the best version, the logic of organization, (in the first place this function in Maxim)

    (-) abstractness, universality, universality, system, classification, typology, general regularities, objectivity, truth, validity, analysis, the logic of science, criterion. (in the first place this function in Robesp'era)


    (+) prospect, possibility, positive potential, essence, essence, principles, new ideas, the advancement of hypotheses, theory, insight, interest, originality, unusualness, fantasticism, faith; (in the first place this function in the Don Quixote)

    (-) lack of promise, alternative, negative potential, the absence of essence, senselessness, paradox, the forgotten old, grayness, mediocrity, the depressed possibilities, disbelief, sensation. (in the first place this function in Huxley)


    (+) future, a change of the situation with time, prediction, foresight, gradual development, evolution, planned ascending, the dynamics of changes, temporary flow, imagination, consistency, imperceptible changes - step by step, convergence, convergence; (in the first place this function in Balzac)

    (-) the past, the calculation of errors, the avoidance of danger, anxiety, vague uneasiness, the ripening of the crisis, revolution, jump in the time, the skill to insure against the troubles, sharp shifts, discrepancy, the moment of decisive actions, divergence, divergence. (in the first place this function in Esenin)


    (+) - the retention of authority, insubordination, protection, defense, retaliatory attack, counterattack, hardness, settling its interests, volitional pressure from bottom to top, the force of will, possession; (in the first place this function in Napoleon)

    (-) assumption of power, subordination, attack, aggression, attack, initiative, persistence, exactingness, volitional pressure from top to bottom, the assertion of its interests due to others, overthrow, weakness, weak will, mastery. (in the first place this function in Zhukov)


    (+) pleasant sensations, comfort, convenience, accordion, beauty, attractiveness, leisure, health, weakening, a good health, pleasure, enjoyment, sensitivity; (in the first place this function in the Dumases)

    (-) discomfort, discomfort, inconvenience, disharmony, disgrace, unattractiveness, fatigue, stress, disease, poor health, suffering, pain. (in the first place this function Of gabena)

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    Right, that's three "crackpots" now, not just two.

    What will you do when you have four "crackpots"? Five? Six? Will you still insist on calling us crackpots?

    Hitta's made some labeling errors, probably because he didn't profreed (I often do the same thing), but over all his theory seems rather sound.

    Err 1
    Anyone time -Ti/+Te is in the 1 function, +Se/-Si will always be in the 3, -Fe/+Fi will always be in the 5,
    You mean 4.

    INTj's creative agenda function is -Fe/+Fi.
    By your own definition, that's the base agenda.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I stand corrected.

    However, I still don't see the rationale behind calling all of these functions the "same."
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Right, that's three "crackpots" now, not just two.

    What will you do when you have four "crackpots"? Five? Six? Will you still insist on calling us crackpots?
    I don't agree with the labeling of the functions as (+) and (-) - it's obvious why appears to differ in ENFjs and ESFjs - they are paired with different functions in the Ego.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Right, that's three "crackpots" now, not just two.

    What will you do when you have four "crackpots"? Five? Six? Will you still insist on calling us crackpots?
    I don't agree with the labeling of the functions as (+) and (-) - it's obvious why appears to differ in ENFjs and ESFjs - they are paired with different functions in the Ego.
    Right, but it's a sub-classification to atomize the differences into phenomena that can be discussed independently.
    Got a better idea for the study of the relationships?

    This model doesn't immediately have anything to do with "transcendence". I'll bet he's got some more ideas that he's not yet ready to discuss. This is just like, the beginning of the intro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Right, but it's a sub-classification to atomize the differences into phenomena that can be discussed independently.
    Got a better idea for the study of the relationships?
    What's wrong with talking about how ENFjs and ESFjs differ etc., like people always do?
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Because it tells us little about the phemenology of the elements themselves as they relate to each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Right, that's three "crackpots" now, not just two.

    What will you do when you have four "crackpots"? Five? Six? Will you still insist on calling us crackpots?
    What types talk like this?
    ENTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Right, that's three "crackpots" now, not just two.

    What will you do when you have four "crackpots"? Five? Six? Will you still insist on calling us crackpots?
    What types talk like this?
    Ha, you don't have a intuitive bone in your body.

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    Only a person with a mad-scientist complex would use a signature like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Dual-type theory is real: a truth denied is not a truth destroyed.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Only a person with a mad-scientist complex would use a signature like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Dual-type theory is real: a truth denied is not a truth destroyed.
    I object to the your use of the word "scientist" :wink:

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yeah, but "mad pseudo-psychologist" doesn't really have much ring.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  23. #23
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    For what it's worth, the notion of all judging functions and perceiving functions working together as one, is in line with my ideas.

    There is still something fishy about the way Hitta uses the + and - signs, though... I wouldn't put too much stock in the idea that the Se in Se- paired with Ti+ is the same as the Se in Se- paired with Fi+. One would be the rightward advancing version and the other the leftward advancing one.

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    Jung notes that the extroverted thinking process is always running parallel to the introverted process in his Psychological Types essay.

    Augusta may also have written a paper about it: "Good Reasons to use both Types of Thinking" or something like that. It would be beneficial for us to have access to all of Augusta's papers, I imagine.

    Do you think it possible we might pool our resources to get a subscription to the official socionics journals? I believe all of her completed articles are in there.

    Boukalov's work in particular has a magical glow about it.

    EDIT:
    Gah, how did I let you draw me back into this place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    Hmm... That's an interesting intuitive correspondence.

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