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Thread: Identical Relations: INFp & INFp

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    Default Identical Relations: INFp & INFp

    i'm afraid of a relationship with another INFp. should i be?
    INFP

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    Default Re: INFp identity

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv_damage
    i'm afraid of a relationship with another INFp. should i be?
    You should be afraid of everything.

    Drugs, teen sex, terrorists.

    The dark.

    The light.






    ... umm take that back. I would say no.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Default Re: INFp identity

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by nerv_damage
    i'm afraid of a relationship with another INFp. should i be?
    You should be afraid of everything.

    Drugs, teen sex, terrorists.

    The dark.

    The light.






    ... umm take that back. I would say no.



    that doesn't help
    INFP

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    Default Re: INFp identity

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv_damage
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by nerv_damage
    i'm afraid of a relationship with another INFp. should i be?
    You should be afraid of everything.

    Drugs, teen sex, terrorists.

    The dark.

    The light.






    ... umm take that back. I would say no.



    that doesn't help


    I'm saying you shouldn't be afraid like that. If you meet someone you want to be in a relationship with, go with it. And if you do do it and it doesn't work out, you live and learn.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    This person is very special to me. If i feel incomplete and have to break it up, I'd never ever forgive myself for hurting her.
    INFP

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    Quote Originally Posted by nerv_damage
    This person is very special to me. If i feel incomplete and have to break it up, I'd never ever forgive myself for hurting her.
    Pssh, who says she'd be happier never being in a relationship then being in one for awhile before it was over?
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nerv_damage
    This person is very special to me. If i feel incomplete and have to break it up, I'd never ever forgive myself for hurting her.
    At worst, you'll end up getting bored of each other. It's actually very difficult to genuinely hurt your identical. I've tried. They see right through my bullshit, lol.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    Quote Originally Posted by nerv_damage
    This person is very special to me. If i feel incomplete and have to break it up, I'd never ever forgive myself for hurting her.
    At worst, you'll end up getting bored of each other. It's actually very difficult to genuinely hurt your identical. I've tried. They see right through my bullshit, lol.
    thanks.
    i actually wanted to hear what you had to say more than anyone else because you remind me so much of myself and i've seen a video post you did and you look like my long lost brother.
    INFP

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    Glad I could help.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Default Re: INFp identity

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv_damage
    i'm afraid of a relationship (). should i be?
    No, you should not be afraid of a relationship. Just figure out whether it will work or not, and act accordingly. You might not know right away, but it is up to you to find out. And so on.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Give it a try, it couldn't hurt.

    I personally can't see myself in a relationship with another INFp because after a while they end up feeling like a sibling. It's a strange kind of feeling. I also find so much pointless conflict in identical relations. I feel like INFp's try to control me, and when I don't allow them to control me they become filled with horrible rage, and they will try to hurt me from the inside with all the power that they have. They will call me horrible names and try to accuse me of stealing things, or accuse me of doing things that I would never even think of doing... all because I will not allow them to control, or take advantage of me. Of course this has very little affect on my feelings most of the time, and I'll more than likely find it more humorous than anything. Then before you know it everything goes back to normal, and we'll be joking around like good friends; just as if things had never happened. I also feel like the Fe subtypes can be a bit too emotional and touchy, while the Ne subtypes can be distant and somewhat selfish.

    That is just from my experiences with identicals, so take what I said with a grain of salt.
    thank you soo much. I'm not sure of her subtype but hopefully she's the Fe subtype like me cuz the Ni subtype like my friend sarra can be a pain. No offense to sarra or Ni subtypes.
    INFP

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    Default Re: INFp identity

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv_damage
    i'm afraid of a relationship with another INFp. should i be?
    I've been thinking lately that we're all afraid of too much with respect to others.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Ask yourself this: Do things “fall into place” when I talk to this person?

    Go with your gut, and trust yourself and not other people. You know this situation first hand; therefore you know this better than we do. I have faith in you brother :wink:
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Default Identical Relations: INFp & INFp

    So I am kind of into another IEI, lols. And it looks as though my feelings are returned. I feel I like him as much as my SLE but in a different way. With the SLE it was like; -wow he's amazing. He's such an arsehole. He's so sexy- and with the IEI it's like -wow - he is so cute, aww =). But so mix messagey, ugh-.

    Yeah so lol, does anyone think that an IEI relationship has a chance? I don't know if the attraction will stay strong, you know? It's just wierd because he is exactly like me. I thought people didn't get attracted to identicals =p!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    So I am kind of into another IEI, lols. And it looks as though my feelings are returned. I feel I like him as much as my SLE but in a different way. With the SLE it was like; -wow he's amazing. He's such an arsehole. He's so sexy- and with the IEI it's like -wow - he is so cute, aww =). But so mix messagey, ugh-.

    Yeah so lol, does anyone think that an IEI relationship has a chance? I don't know if the attraction will stay strong, you know? It's just wierd because he is exactly like me. I thought people didn't get attracted to identicals =p!
    LOL!

    To answer your question, yes, double IEI relationship definitely CAN work. Just be sure to have a lot of and in your life somehow as well, otherwise it can feel very smothering, and as if you two are at a standstill. Other than that, understanding is magical and perfect, but the relationship may also seem to be er... a bit boring, without other quadra members to spur it along.

    I think B&D put it really well when he said that with 2 identicals, you wanna lie in bed all day with lovey-dovey eyes and fuck each-other.. but not much else gets done.


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    My first love was with another IEI. We were star-struck. It was a serious Romeo-Juliet thing. But yeah, what ScarlettLux said is true. I think, if I had a choice between a dual or an identical, I would want my dual, long-term. Nearly ANY relation can work, honestly. But if I had a choice and got to do it all over again, I would probably actively look for my dual. I think the long-term affects could be enormous (in a very positive way).
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Yeah you need to live fully if you have an identical relationship. Dual will insist you do stuff with them, so living/be with gets taken care of itself. But you have pure, bedroom understanding... but yeah, not much else. Which is fine if that's what you want in a relationship.

    Identical is like, pure connection... but you kinda drown out too much of the outside world.

    It's really the ONLY downfall though. Other than that, it's just as good as dual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    Yeah so lol, does anyone think that an IEI relationship has a chance?
    I never had an Identical relationship so take what I'm about to say with a pinch of salt.

    According to the holy scriptures of Socionics, Identical relationship are second best thing after duality. The main thing I guess is the fact that you do get even better understanding and the reduce chance for conflicts.

    The main issue might be the lack of energy, lack of willpower.
    I you take turns being "selfish" in bed and PLAN to do social things together, you cover a lot of the bad tendencies.

    I also recommend Anthony de Mello's "A Rediscovery of Life" video series for the both of you. Practicing awareness will help you both with Se deficiency.

    Earl Nightingale's "Lead the Field" audiobook will provide you with enough ideas to compensate for Ti. Play a game and force yourself (at least in the beginning) to do some of the suggested exercises.

    Other than that... what can I say... have as less sex as possible... aim for 3/4 to 1/2 of natural tendencies and transfer some of the desire into every day activities. Read a good pictured book on Kama Sutra like Anne Hooper's.

    Take some kind of sporty activity like swimming or dancing or both.

    Best of luck!
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    They probably stand a chance, but I personally think they're the least fruitful of same-quadra relationships. Still, that's the 4th best relationship in the socion. (Or the 12th worst, depending on how you look at it.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Still, that's the 4th best relationship in the socion.
    What are in your view the 2nd and 3rd? And why?
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    What dual gives you has little to do with psychological compatibility and has EVERYTHING to do with PHYSICAL compatibility. I don't mean sex per se or attraction -- but covering up weaknesses in the environment for the self-conscious introvert. (and directing the energy of the extrovert better)

    Technically speaking, identical is always the best match *psychologically.* Or even mirror.

    But duals give you 'the best of both worlds', they understand you, don't want to change you -- just like the Identical (like truly attracts like), yet the more extroverted/outgoing partner handles the physical environment 'real world' part that the introverted/subjective partner just can't handle. This has nothing to do with how much you LIKE a person, but has everything to do with what you NEED.

    If you just want a type of relationship that is always private, where you just look cutsey in each other's eyes, then there's nothing wrong with Identical. They can sex you up, and treat you well privately. If you are already balanced and improved yourself enough, it's probably more ideal. But the two people try to function together objectivally, something goes wrong. Identicals are good for romance, Duals partnerships. Dual marriages get recognized easier by society because the objective world can see how the other person covers up your weaknesses.

    Duals are better not because of Twu Wuv or that you innately like them better, it's a concrete, scientific, non-romantic thing.

    If you live in a society that tries to totally get rid of environmental hazards, then you see Identicals finding love - like what happens in homoerotic college institutions (gay until college graduation for a lot of people), where people are given a safe haven just to think. But your dual is irrespecable in the messy natural world filled with obstacles. Gay culture is filled with aesthetics and peaceful worlds because of this. Some people say only minds can connect, others bodies. Concept of duality seems to try and include both.

    It all depends on where you are and what you want etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    What dual gives you has little to do with psychological compatibility and has EVERYTHING to do with PHYSICAL compatibility. I don't mean sex per se or attraction -- but covering up weaknesses in the environment for the self-conscious introvert. (and directing the energy of the extrovert better)

    Technically speaking, identical is always the best match *psychologically.* Or even mirror.

    But duals give you 'the best of both worlds', they understand you, don't want to change you -- just like the Identical (like truly attracts like), yet the more extroverted/outgoing partner handles the physical environment 'real world' part that the introverted/subjective partner just can't handle. This has nothing to do with how much you LIKE a person, but has everything to do with what you NEED.

    If you just want a type of relationship that is always private, where you just look cutsey in each other's eyes, then there's nothing wrong with Identical. They can sex you up, and treat you well privately. If you are already balanced and improved yourself enough, it's probably more ideal. But the two people try to function together objectivally, something goes wrong. Identicals are good for romance, Duals partnerships. Dual marriages get recognized easier by society because the objective world can see how the other person covers up your weaknesses.

    Duals are better not because of Twu Wuv or that you innately like them better, it's a concrete, scientific, non-romantic thing.

    If you live in a society that tries to totally get rid of environmental hazards, then you see Identicals finding love - like what happens in homoerotic college institutions (gay until college graduation for a lot of people), where people are given a safe haven just to think. But your dual is irrespecable in the messy natural world filled with obstacles. Gay culture is filled with aesthetics and peaceful worlds because of this. Some people say only minds can connect, others bodies. Concept of duality seems to try and include both.

    It all depends on where you are and what you want etc.
    yeah I agree with this.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I don't intentionally 'Seek' SE so it's a bit misleading. It's not something I want or I go soughting after, it's more of a need. Obviously, we want people just like us - societies that are psychologically like-minded do the best.

    I already talked a lot about this before, but it seems people with poorer intelligence are still under the delusion that duals work the best for internal reasons. Or a nonsense that 'identicals are clashing' You will only clash with your identical if you try to attempt a project where objective understanding is needed (well if you are both IEIs) But if you hate/dislike your identical, you are only hating yourself. If you like/love yourself, you adore your identicals.

    Identicals don't psychologically clash though never, that is just crazy talk.

    Since Conflictors have a lot of initial attraction but not safety/comfort, even that relationship could work if both people travel a lot, and don't get psychologically close. These are all just FRAMEWORKS people, don't go basing your lifeon them. DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE INDIVDIUALLY IN YOUR LIFE, IS WHAT YOU NEED. I ALREADY EXPLAINED WHY AND HOW DUAL RELATIONSHIPS ARE LESS NEEDED THE SMARTER WE BECOME.

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    I've noticed IEIs tend to be attracted to one another. I don't see how I could be attracted to an LSE, but maybe that's because the only two male LSEs I know are too old and too young.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    yeah I agree with this.
    Thank you. Your dual makes you feel physically safer. Mental/psychology though, other IEIs have saved my life before helping me overcome inner battles.

    And a baby could be born with hot conflictor sex from two yuppies. Of course, the two don't stay together- nothing in common and they'd quickly grow to hate each other. But that baby grows and does something great for the world.

    For the time being, at that particular point in time, the relationship was successful because of other factors.

    Nothing can teach you how to do something like an Identical can, having already been there and needing to teach others.

    Mirror is good when you want to know how to achieve your dreams in a diff way, with what you're doing isn't working, you need to see your ideals come out from a role model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Thank you. Your dual makes you feel physically safer.
    Hey, you're right! I never noticed that before. It doesn't make much sense since my dual's kind of a wimp (no offence, I love EIIs), but when I'm around a dual I feel safer.

    LSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Introverts/passive partners/bottoms usually get it wrong the first time by picking somebody too opposite at first. They still pick somebody different and complementary, but at first they miss the mark and tend to be with somebody way too overbearing. They then grow, by picking somebody more alike. (self-confidence as the main learning experience)

    I've done this ALOT attracting men that were seriously violent etc.

    This is because when your young but in love, you're still a bit overwhelmed/scared of physical envrionment - so confliction abounds. You need a protector/provider but not as much as you think.

    Extroverts/active partners/tops usually get it wrong the first time by picking somebody too similiar at first. The relationship starts with mutual friendship and support (very likeable extroverted energy), but quickly delves into nastiness when they see their own harshities reflected back in the same partner, that they'd rather not. When an actual problem arises, or beliefs get discussed, they end up being uneasy as nobody knows where to go. The extroverted partner needs their energy directed, but it's not just happening and both leave frustrated. They grow by picking somebody more different from them.

    It's much more volatile and dangerous for two positives to clash and compete than two negatives. Just a fact. An alpha needs an omega more than the omega needs the alpha. Just law of the universe.

    So take heart quiet shy faggy introverts, and know that with us - like usually attracts like more than others.

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    The reason you don't realize your dual is good for you at first is because they're most likely pleasantly blending your physiology (not psychology) in the background, instead of directly connecting with you. You're saying nothing for them to get excited about, but you're also not pushing their buttons. So, you ignore each other.

    But then later, slowly over time you realize how much you need them in the world to feel physically safer. They tend to 'calm your body' down and make you more in control of your personal life. You also then feel truly attracted to them, eternally in an erotic way- that is more tantric, body/mind than lust.

    Of course, you can speed up the process much quicker probably being one on one with a dual. Then I think it's much more magnetic. But eek in this world, with all the looneys out there I don't know about that risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    The reason you don't realize your dual is good for you at first is because they're most likely pleasantly blending your physiology (not psychology) in the background, instead of directly connecting with you. You're saying nothing for them to get excited about, but you're also not pushing their buttons. So, you ignore each other.

    But then later, slowly over time you realize how much you need them in the world to feel physically safer. They tend to 'calm your body' down and make you more in control of your personal life. You also then feel truly attracted to them, eternally in an erotic way- that is more tantric, body/mind than lust.

    Of course, you can speed up the process much quicker probably being one on one with a dual. Then I think it's much more magnetic. But eek in this world, with all the looneys out there I don't know about that risk.
    yes, you're right! So there was this guy I knew (a borderline couple friend of mine and my husband's) and I suspected he was SLE but wasn't 100% sure. We ignored each other for the most part but then on a couple of occasions, he talked to me one on one and it felt like there was this really low-key connection. I thought it was odd and interesting but didn't think much else (this was in the beginning of my knowledge of socionics). Over time, we've had more interaction. We still largely ignore each other when we're in a larger group. But one-on-one we've developed a friendship that's very cool. And when he's around I feel a)protected and safe b)happy and myself c)more confident and d)more comfortable, even when we're in a group, ignoring each other! His wife is IEI like me so we get along great too. It's very fun.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    LOL!

    To answer your question, yes, double IEI relationship definitely CAN work. Just be sure to have a lot of and in your life somehow as well, otherwise it can feel very smothering, and as if you two are at a standstill. Other than that, understanding is magical and perfect, but the relationship may also seem to be er... a bit boring, without other quadra members to spur it along.

    I think B&D put it really well when he said that with 2 identicals, you wanna lie in bed all day with lovey-dovey eyes and fuck each-other.. but not much else gets done.
    HAHA nice, but jtis just too boring besides the fucking. when you eat with them you dont have much too talk about, so you will only find comfort because you can be with wach other without saying much, are you really an INFp? becuase i dont think so lux.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    But then later, slowly over time you realize how much you need them in the world to feel physically safer. They tend to 'calm your body' down and make you more in control of your personal life. You also then feel truly attracted to them, eternally in an erotic way- that is more tantric, body/mind than lust.
    Is that the speaking?

    Or is this my absolute lack of any contact with s speaking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    What are in your view the 2nd and 3rd? And why?
    The second best is mirror, the third is activity. This is based purely on the descriptions on socionics.us.

    Although my best friend is EIE, and I have very good relations with him, I can't judge that relations with LSIs will be worse, because I don't know any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    The second best is mirror, the third is activity. This is based purely on the descriptions on socionics.us.

    Although my best friend is EIE, and I have very good relations with him, I can't judge that relations with LSIs will be worse, because I don't know any.
    I see... I have not experienced mirror... but I've been in an activity relationship and it has been quite nice... we are still very good friends...

    The "top" in my mind was from socionics.com
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    The second best is mirror, the third is activity. This is based purely on the descriptions on socionics.us.

    Although my best friend is EIE, and I have very good relations with him, I can't judge that relations with LSIs will be worse, because I don't know any.
    I'm not sure. I guess I could see that. I tend to get along very well with most ENFjs, but wouldn't a relationship with an identical be better in the long run, due to the symmetry of temperament? As for activity, that just seems like it's the best up front, but the worst out of the four down the line.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Default Identical Relations: INFp & INFp

    Inspired by Sirena's thread.

    Seems like us IEI's love a bit of IEI, huh :wink

    Honestly, I am feeling it too guys! I LOVE this IEI guy I know. His company is addictive, just being around him is therapeutic to me.

    In a sense I feel like it's better than having a dual there! I have never felt such adoration for another person before. It's mental and I want it to stay like this forever. GOD, I would die if this got boring, which should happen soon according to the shitty rules .

    So IEIs tell me about your experiences with your identicals, please? It seems as though it's not this way for every other type, to get such a kick out of being with their own type.

    GOD someone please tell me this doesn't get boring! At least give me 60 years or so, then it can get dull because it won't matter if I am dead xD.

    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    lol, dinki, I absolutely love you.

    I think you are just a really lusty person. And I bet you can afford to be, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    lol, dinki, I absolutely love you.

    I think you are just a really lusty person. And I bet you can afford to be, too.
    :tongue:! I LOVE YOU.

    I wish they were all up for a bit of Polyamory, but I bought it up one time and it didn't go down well ...
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    In the past I've had bad relations with other IEI's. When it's good it's great, though.
    Example please ?
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akra View Post
    It's either joygasming awesome or soul shattering bad. Nothing in between.

    I actually liked how octopuslove put it the best--describes my one experience far better than I've ever personally articulated it:
    I love how you write! It makes me lol . Thanks for sharing sugar.

    This whole thread has just given me stiches, I am laughing so hard. Oh, but not at the soul shattering :frown:.
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I don't see the negative effects of IEI-IEI relations in boredom or stagnation or in being too forgiving. I'd rather say IEIs can provide extremely accurate analysis of your good and bad traits. Maybe it's a maturity thing, also? At least I have better and better relations with IEIs with age. The ONLY problem I see, is that IEIs, when the relationship is really good, make you grow trememdously as a person, but they won't really help you realize all of what you are learning. It kind of ends up like that baobab trees in The little prince. You grow and grow and grow, but have no earth to live on, or rather - your inside is huuuuge, but your world is still small - too small to carry it.


    An IEI-IEI-SLE relationship must be awesome. An IEI to grow internally, and an SLE to help you bring it all out.
    Wow thanks! I love that metaphor. How often were you with your IEI? An IEI-IEI-SLE relationship would be AWESOME!
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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