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Thread: My brother's new girlfriend

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    Default My brother's new girlfriend

    OK so my brother (ISFj) is almost finished with his divorce, and has met someone new. Rebound relationship. He says he's in LOVE. I finally met her today.

    First, she was very late, and my brother said she is always late everywhere she goes.

    She seemed to need to keep busy - she kept fussing with things, like getting dishes to clean, picking up stuff as soon as the kids finished with anything, etc.

    She wasn't warm at all, but she was still nice in an understated way. She was talkative but didn't show a lot of emotion until she talked about her work - she's a family/child counselor. Then she became pretty animated.

    She dresses in a very flashy manner, like she had a toe ring and lots of jewelry and stuff, but it didn't look very well put together to me. Like she wanted to show off wealth more than she wanted to be comfortable. I assume Se>Si.

    She kept giving my brother advice. She suggested some different dishes he might get, suggested a movie he might like. Hmm I don't remember everything but she's into giving advice. Maybe that's why she's a counselor?

    That's all I've got.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    SLE
    or
    SEE
    or
    ESE

    Ethical or Logical?
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    My feeling would be logical. She certainly wasn't an Fe type. She didn't seem warm at all. On the other hand, ethical types aren't always warm, and logical types can have a kind of warmth. And she's a counselor, which could be an Fi thing. It's hard to say, overall. But my feeling would be logical.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    What types are often late like that? Is that an irrational thing? I'm sometimes late but I'm more random. Like I'm within 10 minutes one way or the other. But apparently she is always like half an hour or more late. My sister-in-law (husband's sister) is like that too. There's got to be some kind of Socionics explanation for that.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    She could be ENTj. There are other possibilities of course. The question is... when she gets really animated talking about work, is it because she was helping people or because it's her career? Also, the cleaning and flashy jewelry thing wouldn't be typical behavior for ENTjs, but she may have been nervous because she was meeting you.

    Other possibilties: ESTj, ESFp, ENFj, ESTp, ESFj.... ISFj?
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    She was talking to me about her knowledge re child development, as a counselor. We were talking about our kids, and she'd talk about things she'd read and learned. She really enjoyed talking to me about what she knew and how it was relevant.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    She could be ENTj.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Is that kind of continual lateness something common to ENTjs? My mom is hyper punctual so it doesn't feel ENTj-ish to me based on my experience. But maybe some ENTjs are habitually late?
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    She was talking to me about her knowledge re child development, as a counselor. We were talking about our kids, and she'd talk about things she'd read and learned. She really enjoyed talking to me about what she knew and how it was relevant.
    That makes ENTj seem more likely.

    I guess the fact that she wore too much jewelry could be indicative of a Si PoLR. While most female ENTjs don't wear much jewelry or makeup very often, I would imagine it's common to go through a phase (or phases) where they decide to, but take it overboard, then realize it doesn't get good reactions (or whatever) and pretty much stop wearing it altogether again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    But maybe some ENTjs are habitually late?
    My sister (who I consider to be ENTj) is. And she doesn't give a f**k about it. She always ends up going to places by herself cause she needs a lot of time to prepare. She has to be perfect you know.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    But maybe some ENTjs are habitually late?
    My sister (who I consider to be ENTj) is.

    Ahhh.

    Well I hope she is. My brother was very unhappy in his last marriage (to an ESFp so his mirror). I'd like him to be happy. He's really a sweetheart. I worry that this is a rebound relationship and he'll end up being married to someone he isn't compatible with because I can see he really wants to be married again. I think he's moving too quickly.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    But maybe some ENTjs are habitually late?
    Yes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    But maybe some ENTjs are habitually late?
    My sister (who I consider to be ENTj) is.

    Ahhh.

    Well I hope she is. My brother was very unhappy in his last marriage (to an ESFp so his mirror). I'd like him to be happy. He's really a sweetheart. I worry that this is a rebound relationship and he'll end up being married to someone he isn't compatible with because I can see he really wants to be married again. I think he's moving too quickly.
    There's more to compatibility than type. That said, I think it's pretty common for Gammas to move into relationships quickly.

    Te + resolute + static ethical aggressor + Fi dual seeking victim = a "we're either together or we're not" mentality, leading to serious, committed relationships developing pretty quickly

    I think this may be even more true of Gamma rationals.
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    I think ESTj > ENTj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    She could certainly be ESTj. I don't think I know any female ESTjs IRL to compare her with.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    First, she was very late, and my brother said she is always late everywhere she goes.
    More on the "late" thing later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    She seemed to need to keep busy - she kept fussing with things, like getting dishes to clean, picking up stuff as soon as the kids finished with anything, etc.
    That is EJ temperament, but with Si rather than Ni focus. That is the stereotypical ESFj behavior, but also applicable to ESTjs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    She wasn't warm at all, but she was still nice in an understated way. She was talkative but didn't show a lot of emotion until she talked about her work - she's a family/child counselor. Then she became pretty animated.
    That's consistent with dominant Te and Fe role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    She dresses in a very flashy manner, like she had a toe ring and lots of jewelry and stuff, but it didn't look very well put together to me. Like she wanted to show off wealth more than she wanted to be comfortable. I assume Se>Si.
    Yes I know what you mean but I think it's rather that she likes the look, it's her own taste, and with Fe role she does not care that much about whether or not others like it - or perhaps she doesn't notice it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    She kept giving my brother advice. She suggested some different dishes he might get, suggested a movie he might like. Hmm I don't remember everything but she's into giving advice. Maybe that's why she's a counselor?
    Sounds like Te EJ and/or Si caregiver behavior, both actually.

    And being a family/child counselor is a typical Delta + Caregiver kind of job.

    Now back to the "being late" thing, it's connected to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    She seemed to need to keep busy - she kept fussing with things, like getting dishes to clean, picking up stuff as soon as the kids finished with anything, etc.
    That's the origin of the old "intuition of time" PoLR in descriptions like Stratievskaya's, saying that ESXjs tend to be late -- not necessarily, since they can also learn to check the watch, but the reason for that is that they keep focusing on what has to be done right in front of them, and they tend to think less about what they have to do in a few hours. They are late because they keep going "let me finish just this one more thing" before leaving.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Ah that makes lots of sense. And she said she was late because she'd gotten started fixing something at home and had lost track of time. That fits in with that well.

    It explains why my INFj sister and I thought she was so nice. Of course we'd be in pretty complimentary relationships with an ENTj too.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    I could see ESTj, too, but I don't think it would be accurate to assume that some of the stuff you mentioned is the way she always is because you only met her once, and it was when she was most likely nervous. The way you talked about her though shows some sort of disconnect where I think you probably would have been likely to instantly click with an ESTj.
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    I wouldn't say I "instantly clicked" with her. Nor did my sister. But we both thought she was nice.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Well, I think she's either ESTj or ENTj.

    If ESTj, the "late" thing is going to be one of the sources of friction. The ISFj expects the ENTj to adapt her (I'll use "her" here) schedule to his (ISFj's) in daily matters; the ENTj complies as long as it doesn't disturb her longer-term plans. That's not going to work between ISFj and ESTj.

    Also, an ESTj will have little understanding for an ISFj's constant concern about what's going to happen. The ESTj will think that the ISFj worries too much about things they can't know in advance; the ISFj will think that the ESTj is too laid-back and perhaps even irresponsible, or maddeningly optimistic.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    She seemed to need to keep busy - she kept fussing with things, like getting dishes to clean, picking up stuff as soon as the kids finished with anything, etc.
    This to me could very very very easily be behaviour, trying to do everything at once.

    I see no reason for her not being another SEE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric
    I see no reason for her not being another SEE.
    There's nothing clearly non-SEE about her, except that I think that a SEE woman would be seen as more Fe-capable by an ENFp, and would tend to put the INFj off a bit. If you take into account the types of Slacker Mom and her sister, I think SEE becomes less likely. Obviously it's still possible.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    coming from the human services field, people who work with kids are almost invariably F. unless the kids are teenagers. then it's T.

    the lateness could be esfj or entp (i am constantly late).

    the fashion thing doesn't sound esfj, they are usually right on the money style wise.

    the fact that you didn't click but still liked her seems to suggest a different quadra, probably alpha or gamma.

    giving a guy advice in front of his family when you're meeting them for the first time seems a little off to me. i wouldn't do that and i have Fi polr, so go figure.

    esfp is a possibilty but i didn't see much forcefulness there plus see the line above this one.

    isfj is also a possibility since you would supervise her and you sound somewhat like you are assessing of her (could just be sisterly concern, tho), but would also account for some of the coldness. i don't see an isfj being late for something like this though.

    what's your brother's type?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    My brother is ISFj.

    You know, it just occurred to me that my husband said he liked her too, although he didn't interact with her much so I didn't really think to consider that. But if she is ESTj or ENTj, she's either his activity partner or supervisee, and that would be a big difference.

    And my brother said her lateness is "her one major fault". He was very unhappy about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    My brother is ISFj.

    You know, it just occurred to me that my husband said he liked her too, although he didn't interact with her much so I didn't really think to consider that. But if she is ESTj or ENTj, she's either his activity partner or supervisee, and that would be a big difference.

    And my brother said her lateness is "her one major fault". He was very unhappy about it.
    can't really see estj or entj being late all the time. plus i don't see the T as much since she works with kids. if your isfj brother likes her i think gamma or beta is more likely. but since you and your delta sister liked her, i think it could rule out beta. not sure though, maybe not enough info yet?

    did you get a sense of temperament by any chance?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I thought Ej temperment and I thought no Fe, which leaves ESTj and ENTj as the two that seemed most likely to me.

    Why wouldn't an ESTj or ENTj work with kids? They might be a minority in that kind of profession, but I don't think there's anything about that kind of work that makes ESTj or ENTj so unlikely. Particularly for a woman - women are to some extent steered to certain professions, including that type of profession.

    The lateness is what threw me off. I don't know any ENTjs personally who would be likely to be late. Not sure about ESTjs. I could see some argument for either - although Expat's explanation about getting caught up in a project and losing track of time makes sense to me.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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