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Thread: Gammas and Grieving

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    Default Gammas and Grieving

    So Monday of this week my grandpa who was my dual (INTp) passed away. Ever since I've been really upset but I don't really feel like it really happened yet. But Idk I just want to cry and stay in his bed and not leave his house but my dad who is INTj wants to run away and forget about it, move on. So I was just wondering how you gammas deal with death and the grieving process. Any thoughts?
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    nice avatar man, :wink:

    i don't know how gammas grieve but i'm sorry to hear about your grandfather. sound like you were pretty close and you might feel the loss for awhile.

    it helps me to think about how the person is now with God, which is where i want to be. i think about the person's legacy and what i can do to carry it on so the person isn't forgotten. also how to get closer to and support others who the person was close to.

    common stages of grief, according to kubler-ross: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. i don't think this is necessarily a sequential thing, people go in and out of all the stages for about a year.

    good luck.

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    I havn't had anyone that I dearly loved die really. However, my step mom died and I don't feel bad for it. Whenever someone dies, I am happy for them. Then, I cry hysterically if I see the pain of the people they left behind that loved them so much. Luckily my dad was very strong when it happened and I didn't see him cry at all. (ESTp tough-guy heh)

    Whenever it happens, and it will, I will miss them and be happy for them, and cry a great deal.


    I suppose it is a matter of faith for me. But I can't handle seeing loved ones or friends in great emotional pain. Or imagining how others feel when they lose someone they loved very much. Very sad. I have too much empathy >.<


    I'm good at being a stern shoulder though, I can hold it in until Im alone sometimes.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
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    So far I have just moved straight to acceptance, and skipped the grieving. I suppose, in my case the circumstances of the death would affect my reaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion
    be happy for them
    Happy? Why happy?

    Oh and I avoid saying anything about it, so I don't offend or upset anyone further. So I'll do the same now.

    EDIT: Now that I thought about it more. I think what really happens is that the grievance just dissolves in to the general unhappiness that I feel. An added drop to an ocean. So I don't feel the difference, it's always just as heavy.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord
    So far I have just moved straight to acceptance, and skipped the grieving. I suppose, in my case the circumstances of the death would affect my reaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion
    be happy for them
    Happy? Why happy?

    Oh and I avoid saying anything about it, so I don't offend or upset anyone further. So I'll do the same now.

    EDIT: Now that I thought about it more. I think what really happens is that the grievance just dissolves in to the general unhappiness that I feel. An added drop to an ocean. So I don't feel the difference, it's always just as heavy.

    The happiness has to do with the faith...so it varies from person to person depending on what you think happens to people and their souls as a result of death...
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
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    i must determine the value of the person lost, then experience that loss of value. determining the value of the person is difficult, but so is experiencing the loss of value, so i am pretty inept at completing the process. i think my memories of a person help me begin to determine their value, but then again, i am insecure about whether or not i am remembering the "right" things, the things that would represent the person's truest value to me. so sometimes, out of frustration or confusion or apathy, i tend to ignore the value (and grief) prematurely.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

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    Default Re: Gammas and Grieving

    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    So Monday of this week my grandpa who was my dual (INTp) passed away. Ever since I've been really upset but I don't really feel like it really happened yet. But Idk I just want to cry and stay in his bed and not leave his house but my dad who is INTj wants to run away and forget about it, move on. So I was just wondering how you gammas deal with death and the grieving process. Any thoughts?
    I don't think there is any common "Gamma way" of dealing with death, but it might be type related. It is probably easier for us INTps than for some other types.

    I was 12 years old when my grandfather died. That was a long time ago, but in retrospect I can now say that he might have been an ESFp, and thus my dual. We had a special relation, and his death felt more of a loss to me than when other people I have known have passed away. But essentially, I see death as a natural phenomenon. We all know that we are going to die one day, but we will not experience our own death, only others, because every moment we will experience is a part of life, not death. Our own death is something that happens after every second of our life has passed away, and there is no moment left to experience. Death itself is non-existence, and since non-existence is not such a bad thing (we were in that state billions of years before we came into existence) why would we not accept it as something inevitable that makes life perhaps a little bit more bitter-sweet, but also gives a reason to value the time we have more.

    What will be will be. What has been can't be changed, and what you can't change, it is better to accept. It is a stoic attitude, but is an attitude that makes you not fear death. What we should try to avoid is too much suffering, but death itself is not an evil.

    Times are changing, and there is nothing we can do about it. We live, and then we die. Some of us live longer than others. Your grandfather did exist, and in that respect he was more "lucky" than those of us who were never born and will never experience what it is like to live and exist on this planet. And he lived longer than my friend from high shool who committed suicide at the age of 25, longer than my other friend's sister who committed suicide at the age of 22, or my class fellow that accidentally died only 20 years old, and longer than my bridge partner who died by accident at the age of 35. Your grandfather was probably happier than some of those people I once knew, and that is something you can perhaps try to see as some sort of consiliation. And whatever his life was like, I can assure you that he is not unhappy now. You should of course cry if you feel like it, as that is not a bad thing either.

    Your grandfather has had his life, now it's your turn. Your grandfather's clock has stopped, while yours is still ticking. Our life is just a second compared to eternity, and you and I are nothing but grains of sand in a cold desert. Don't miss that second, liveandletlive. By trying to be as happy as you can possibly be yourself, while you still exist, you would make that second meaningful. My guess is that your grandfather would have appreciated that, and that he would have smiled if he could, feeling a tranquil, porling joy in his heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion
    The happiness has to do with the faith...so it varies from person to person depending on what you think happens to people and their souls as a result of death...
    I see, yeah guessed it had to do something with faith. I don't believe in anything. So for me the only life after death is, that after a person has died. His actions that he did during his life, can still affect those who are still living.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord
    So far I have just moved straight to acceptance, and skipped the grieving. I suppose, in my case the circumstances of the death would affect my reaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion
    be happy for them
    Happy? Why happy?

    Oh and I avoid saying anything about it, so I don't offend or upset anyone further. So I'll do the same now.

    EDIT: Now that I thought about it more. I think what really happens is that the grievance just dissolves in to the general unhappiness that I feel. An added drop to an ocean. So I don't feel the difference, it's always just as heavy.
    In some cultures, a person's death is not something to be mourned, instead the completion of a person's life as marked by their death is something to be celebrated.
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    I the thing with grieving that Jung describes under Te that my emotions don't coincide with the event. Like once I heard the notice of this friend that had been hit by a car...and I didn't feel anything for two days, then suddenly I was walking down the street and without any reason i started to cry...
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    I watched my grandfather die in bed. I literally saw him take his last breath, then his eyes rolled up into his head, and my mom (who had been taking care of him for three years) started crying hysterically.

    It was traumatic at the time, but in hindsight is was pretty cool.

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    When my grandfather died, I was at home. My mom called me from his house and told my dad and I. I sat down for a little while and just went blank, then I started cleaning my room and the rec room because I just didn't know what else to do. Then after a while I sat down and started crying and just fell asleep after a while. Really strange experience.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    When my grandfather died, I was at home. My mom called me from his house and told my dad and I. I sat down for a little while and just went blank, then I started cleaning my room and the rec room because I just didn't know what else to do. Then after a while I sat down and started crying and just fell asleep after a while. Really strange experience.
    that's pretty close to how I react... I wish I could feel the way Diamond and Clover described but I don't think my faith is that strong. I feel God and such when it pertains to myself, but I can't rationize somebody elses death in that way. I just go blank I guess and don't know quite how to feel.

    /edit the exception to that is when I attent funerals. Hearing spirituals and religious music connects me to God and I can feel their passing then (and the joy/saddness of it). The rest of the ceremony surround death though doesn't do it for me (what the priest says, the burrial, wakes, etc...)

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    Wow... I'm sorry to all those who have lost someone close to them. I'm one of the lucky ones who hasn't had to experience something like this and hopefully never will but it's pretty much inevitable in the course of life. The thing is, my grandparents on my dad's side both passed away and I didn't feel one jot of emotion because I had never known them. I questioned myself sometimes, because when I was a baby they apparently took care of me and things like that, but still... I never really "knew" them. I guess it's not wrong to feel nothing in a situation like that. I know I would definitely be one of those ones to cry immediately and not "go blank" ... that's just my way of handling stuff. I know this because I've had moments of shock where someone close to me might've been in real danger, but it was nothing in the end ... however, I got really upset and just started thinking about what would happen if he weren't in my life... oh man, it was the worst thing. But sort of enlightening too because up til that point, to be honest, I never really knew whether or not I could care about another person that way... sounds cold-hearted, no? It's true though. I think with death, we all don't know how to handle it until the time comes and it really hits hard one way or another.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Wow... I'm sorry to all those who have lost someone close to them. I'm one of the lucky ones who hasn't had to experience something like this and hopefully never will but it's pretty much inevitable in the course of life. The thing is, my grandparents on my dad's side both passed away and I didn't feel one jot of emotion because I had never known them. I questioned myself sometimes, because when I was a baby they apparently took care of me and things like that, but still... I never really "knew" them. I guess it's not wrong to feel nothing in a situation like that. I know I would definitely be one of those ones to cry immediately and not "go blank" ... that's just my way of handling stuff. I know this because I've had moments of shock where someone close to me might've been in real danger, but it was nothing in the end ... however, I got really upset and just started thinking about what would happen if he weren't in my life... oh man, it was the worst thing. But sort of enlightening too because up til that point, to be honest, I never really knew whether or not I could care about another person that way... sounds cold-hearted, no? It's true though. I think with death, we all don't know how to handle it until the time comes and it really hits hard one way or another.
    this seems honest.

    in grief, honesty seems best. if you feel like you must make a public display of your emotion, so be it. if you feel you need to hide your tears, ok. if you feel you cannot feel and do not want to try, that is okay too. what bothers me is fake emotion. people crying for the sake of someone dying or because they are programmed to cry when people die.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Wow... I'm sorry to all those who have lost someone close to them. I'm one of the lucky ones who hasn't had to experience something like this and hopefully never will but it's pretty much inevitable in the course of life. The thing is, my grandparents on my dad's side both passed away and I didn't feel one jot of emotion because I had never known them. I questioned myself sometimes, because when I was a baby they apparently took care of me and things like that, but still... I never really "knew" them. I guess it's not wrong to feel nothing in a situation like that. I know I would definitely be one of those ones to cry immediately and not "go blank" ... that's just my way of handling stuff. I know this because I've had moments of shock where someone close to me might've been in real danger, but it was nothing in the end ... however, I got really upset and just started thinking about what would happen if he weren't in my life... oh man, it was the worst thing. But sort of enlightening too because up til that point, to be honest, I never really knew whether or not I could care about another person that way... sounds cold-hearted, no? It's true though. I think with death, we all don't know how to handle it until the time comes and it really hits hard one way or another.
    this seems honest.

    in grief, honesty seems best. if you feel like you must make a public display of your emotion, so be it. if you feel you need to hide your tears, ok. if you feel you cannot feel and do not want to try, that is okay too. what bothers me is fake emotion. people crying for the sake of someone dying or because they are programmed to cry when people die.
    how do you tell the difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Wow... I'm sorry to all those who have lost someone close to them. I'm one of the lucky ones who hasn't had to experience something like this and hopefully never will but it's pretty much inevitable in the course of life. The thing is, my grandparents on my dad's side both passed away and I didn't feel one jot of emotion because I had never known them. I questioned myself sometimes, because when I was a baby they apparently took care of me and things like that, but still... I never really "knew" them. I guess it's not wrong to feel nothing in a situation like that. I know I would definitely be one of those ones to cry immediately and not "go blank" ... that's just my way of handling stuff. I know this because I've had moments of shock where someone close to me might've been in real danger, but it was nothing in the end ... however, I got really upset and just started thinking about what would happen if he weren't in my life... oh man, it was the worst thing. But sort of enlightening too because up til that point, to be honest, I never really knew whether or not I could care about another person that way... sounds cold-hearted, no? It's true though. I think with death, we all don't know how to handle it until the time comes and it really hits hard one way or another.
    this seems honest.

    in grief, honesty seems best. if you feel like you must make a public display of your emotion, so be it. if you feel you need to hide your tears, ok. if you feel you cannot feel and do not want to try, that is okay too. what bothers me is fake emotion. people crying for the sake of someone dying or because they are programmed to cry when people die.
    how do you tell the difference?
    i can't always tell, but most of the time it's "expected" emotional responses that seem fake. you know when you are at a funeral or in church and the person next to you quietly hands you a tissue before you've even begun to cry? do people actually cry after it is expected that they will? this "predictability" test is not always reliable, though, because it's like saying "because we expect the sun to rise, and it does, the sun does not really rise."
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    an esfp with an intj dad.. that must of been a pain in the ass
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat
    an esfp with an intj dad.. that must of been a pain in the ass
    haha you have no idea. it's wierd because the other day we were sitting on the couch just watching TV and we both just started hitting eachother's PoLR for everything- "why do you do this? you're so dumb" basically. I hate loving/love hating my conflict
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