Analysis of Erotic Attitudes

[Gilly]

There has been lots of talk about erotic attitudes and their roles in intertype relations, so I figured I'd do some speculating about their origins in Model A.

We all know that the need of one type for another is driven by the inadequacey of each type to comfortably meet all of the expectations placed on him/her. That's pretty basic: Ne needs Si, Se needs Ni. What most people don't look at is how the insecure functions of each pair play into erotic compatibility.

Perhaps the other, darker origin of intertype relations is based insecurity that originates in the insecure mental track irrational function and is expressed in the roles played out by partners in erotic attitudes.

Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported

Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated

Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired

[Animal]

Perhaps the other, darker origin of intertype relations is based insecurity that originates in the insecure mental track irrational function and is expressed in the roles played out by partners in erotic attitudes.

Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported

Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated

Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired

I think you're right and confirms the little glimpses I've gotten of where the erotic attitudes comes from.

ETA: Boy did I misread, lol. nm. Anyways good work.

[implied]

Perhaps the other, darker origin of intertype relations is based insecurity that originates in the insecure mental track irrational function and is expressed in the roles played out by partners in erotic attitudes.

Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported

Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated

Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired

I think you're right and confirms the little glimpses I've gotten of where the erotic attitudes comes from.

ETA: Boy did I misread, lol. nm. Anyways good work.

excellent work! can we wiki this?

[Blaze]

i like it. kinda of outlines the dark side of the leading functions. but do our insecurities come from our lead function? i would think they'd come more from the superego block.

[Blaze]

i like it. kinda of outlines the dark side of the leading functions. but do our insecurities come from our lead function? i would think they'd come more from the superego block.

That's what George was saying.

yeah i see now, i missed it because he didn't say superego block, he said mental track irrational function guess this didn't register.

what about paranoid Te, Ti, Fe, Fi?

[Creepy-bg]

i like it. kinda of outlines the dark side of the leading functions. but do our insecurities come from our lead function? i would think they'd come more from the superego block.

That's what George was saying.

yeah i see now, i missed it because he didn't say superego block, he said mental track irrational function guess this didn't register.

that's just Gilly trying to sound like an intellectual :wink:

[Not A Communist Shill]

Victim + Aggressor relationships seem very physical - the Ni type is millions of miles away, and needs to be forced into reality, while the Se type can't stop moving and needs to be guided, or something.

Ne and Si relationships could be describe in a similar way, but they seem more abstract - more to do with the gentle caress of skin, softly spoken word etc. - Ni is abstract, of course, but a Ni-Se relationship seems like a fisherman trying to catch a fish or something, so it seems very physical and rough. Ne and Si types seem to prefer showing their affection through holding hands, and generally being more 'soft' with each other.[/random ramblings]

(I think Gilly's thing is very good ).

[ScarlettLux]

I LOVED that! The Paranoid Se for me is 100% true... can't relate to the Ne/Si ones obviously, but the Paranoid Ni is someone I would love to help...

[aka-kitsune]

Please bear with me...

If I may interject a noob question here: why "paranoid"? Just as an insecure label for the role? This is Role function in the model, you're discussing... correct? So INFp would be paranoid Si...?

btw... if you do a web search on "erotic attitudes" you get about 548,000 hits.
but search "Gulenko erotic attitudes" and you get 44.


I just found that rather amusing.

[Gilly]

I LOVED that! The Paranoid Se for me is 100% true... can't relate to the Ne/Si ones obviously, but the Paranoid Ni is someone I would love to help...

These descriptions are addressing Super-Ego functions. Identifying with the Paranoid Se one would make you an Infantile/Ne type.

[Gilly]

Please bear with me...

If I may interject a noob question here: why "paranoid"? Just as an insecure label for the role? This is Role function in the model, you're discussing... correct? So INFp would be paranoid Si...?

btw... if you do a web search on "erotic attitudes" you get about 548,000 hits.
but search "Gulenko erotic attitudes" and you get 44.


I just found that rather amusing.

"Paranoid mental track" just means Super-Ego functions, Paranoid meaning weak and unvalued, and mental track being "conscious." So yes, INFp would be paranoid Si.

Sorry if my terminology sounded super-intellectual or confusing; that really wasn't my intent If I had thought to say "Super-Ego Irrational function" I would have, but what I wrote was what came to mind first.

[ScarlettLux]

Uh oh...

I do not identify with Paranoid Si...

That Paranoid Se one still is perfect for me, and how I tend to always feel.. I want to be supported in achieving my goals. Hmm, well I guess this isn't enough for me to question my type, but still, strange.

[Gilly]

Well, EVERYONE wants to be supported in their goals; that's not the primary focus of the description. The real focus should be on the first sentence. The real key to understanding paranoid Se is the feeling of "I have to always keep moving in order for the world not to collapse around me." Blaze/diamond has this absolutely nailed when she talks about Ne types feeling like their lives are always a mess, or something to that tune.

And of course, remember that everyone has certain amounts of each of these in him/here, just like everyone uses each function. The real question is, which is most like the way you actually view the world?

[ScarlettLux]

I do feel like my life is always a mess.. and I have felt that "having to keep moving" thing...

[XoX]

I LOVED that! The Paranoid Se for me is 100% true... can't relate to the Ne/Si ones obviously, but the Paranoid Ni is someone I would love to help...

Heh. That is rather funny You can still reverse before you will be officially typed as..let's say ENFp

[UDP]

Which .... paranoid function.... are you supposed to relate to?

POLR? Creative? dual seeking?

Or just Se - aggressor, Ni - Victim, Si - caregiver, Ne - infantile?

[UDP]

Uh oh...

I do not identify with Paranoid Si...

That Paranoid Se one still is perfect for me, and how I tend to always feel.. I want to be supported in achieving my goals. Hmm, well I guess this isn't enough for me to question my type, but still, strange.

Shouldn't you identify with Paranoid - Victim?

[XoX]

Which .... paranoid function.... are you supposed to relate to?

POLR? Creative? dual seeking?

Or just Se - aggressor, Ni - Victim, Si - caregiver, Ne - infantile?

This is for your new identity:
Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

This is for your old identity:
Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported

[Slacker]

I identify with the Se one too - but not so much that everyone is working against me as that everything is chaos and the world is a cruel, cruel place and someone has to step up and deal with that shit for me.

[UDP]

Which .... paranoid function.... are you supposed to relate to?

POLR? Creative? dual seeking?

Or just Se - aggressor, Ni - Victim, Si - caregiver, Ne - infantile?

This is for your new identity:
Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

This is for your old identity:
Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported

That does not answer my question.



So is it what I said in the first post, or...


Paranoid Se = Se Polr = Infantile IJ
Paranoid Ni = Ni Polr = Cargiver EJ
.....

and so on.



PSIf the later, then should there not be "paranoid - (every function)?".)
I just wanted clarification.

[Gilly]

I identify with the Se one too - but not so much that everyone is working against me as that everything is chaos and the world is a cruel, cruel place and someone has to step up and deal with that shit for me.

That's basically the gist of it, although perhaps Delta NFs, with weak S and T, would feel like the "powers that be," or some such, are working against them, whereas Alpha NTs might see "people in authority" as being noncompliant or generally ill-meaning. But that's sheer speculation.

[Gilly]

Which .... paranoid function.... are you supposed to relate to?

POLR? Creative? dual seeking?

Or just Se - aggressor, Ni - Victim, Si - caregiver, Ne - infantile?

This is for your new identity:
Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

This is for your old identity:
Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported

You value Ti.

[UDP]

?


Could you answer my post please?

[Gilly]

Read the thread, and you will find what you're looking for. I don't feel like saying it over and over again.

[Gilly]

Paranoid Ne fits the bill for me.

I was actually hoping to hear from you on this one Good to know that they all seem right on; now all we need is Paranoid Ni confirmation...

[Gilly]

Erotic Attitudes are related to irrational functions.

Fi can certainly provide a specific kind of motivation, but I would never delegate the entire concept of "motivation" to Fi.

[UDP]

I LOVED that! The Paranoid Se for me is 100% true... can't relate to the Ne/Si ones obviously, but the Paranoid Ni is someone I would love to help...

These descriptions are addressing Super-Ego functions. Identifying with the Paranoid Se one would make you an Infantile/Ne type.

Oh, I see.

[UDP]

Are these correct?

INTj, ENTp, INFj, ENFp
Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported

ESFj, ISFp, ESTj, ISTp
Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

ISTj, ESTp, ISFj, ESFp
Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated

INFp, ENFj, INTp, ENTj
Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired

[UDP]

Paranoid Se is definitely not me, same for Ne.

Not sure if Paranoid Ni makes more sense than Si, but right now Ni would have the lead.

[Gilly]

Yes, that's correct.

[reyn_til_runa]

There has been lots of talk about erotic attitudes and their roles in intertype relations, so I figured I'd do some speculating about their origins in Model A.

We all know that the need of one type for another is driven by the inadequacey of each type to comfortably meet all of the expectations placed on him/her. That's pretty basic: Ne needs Si, Se needs Ni. What most people don't look at is how the insecure functions of each pair play into erotic compatibility.

Perhaps the other, darker origin of intertype relations is based insecurity that originates in the insecure mental track irrational function and is expressed in the roles played out by partners in erotic attitudes.

Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported

Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated

Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired

paranoid Ni :
1st half is something i regularly and half jokingly admit to in order to make fun of myself. second half, seldom admit to, but feel. whenever suicide comes to mind, it always seems that the scenarios i play out involve some stupid person getting in the way of the act.

paranoid Ne:
i would say i generally know what i'm capable of, so that's not really the problem. I relate to needing a person who can test me, though. otherwise we are useless to each other.

paranoid Si:
i relate to this the least. although it may seem at times that nobody values me, i can't say it's a real concern of mine. it's a given that nobody will value me because they do not really know me, and how can you value that which you do not know? i do not want someone to strive to attain me. this notion sounds miserable. either take me all at once, or let me take you all at once, but don't "fight for me." Eek. drawn out seductions are embarrassingly passionate and predictable.

Paranoid Se:
my ESFp ex was very much this way. it was very obvious that he needed me to support him. suddenly he'd want to become a computer tech and of course i think he can't handle it....yet i say "go for it, sounds like you'd be good at it" and he does the training and the job just fine. i suppose i didn't quite know what to do with his needs, but i can give very good advice to people when i don't relate to them. i also thought it was weird how much he valued his family, by virtue of their being family and nothing more.

anyway, there is a part of the Se one that rings true for me, but i tend to think of myself as working against the world, and not as much the other way around. i also know that i don't have everything i need for my goals, but i don't blame the world for that. i blame myself and can't imagine having someone else implement my imagination. if i don't have a goal, who fucking cares. i have vague and wonderful goals. this way i cannot fail too many times because midway i can just change the conditions of the goals.

so i would say Ni>Ne>Se>Si if you want that kind of order....but actually one does not automatically and linearly follow the other. so disregard this last paragraph.

[Blaze]

so the paranoia/eroticism of the rational types is determined by their polr? huh, interesting. i'd rather be irrational then. hahaha better to be paranoid about one's role function than polr any day.

:-)

makes sense why i would be attracted then to my estp ex...all that Se is kinda nice...cept that i became more and more like him in order to not feel quashed.

[aka-kitsune]

paranoid Si:
i relate to this the least. although it may seem at times that nobody values me, i can't say it's a real concern of mine. it's a given that nobody will value me because they do not really know me, and how can you value that which you do not know? i do not want someone to strive to attain me. this notion sounds miserable. either take me all at once, or let me take you all at once, but don't "fight for me." Eek. drawn out seductions are embarrassingly passionate and predictable.

I'd like to point out here that just because one feels a certain way about something, doesn't mean that it plays out exactly in a straightforward path, as in A->B->C.

I DO in fact relate to paranoid Si, but it's a very core issue, and most of the scenarios I've created did NOT involve following the script of someone actually "fighting for me" or "striving to attain me". Most of the time, I seem to choose someone unavailable in some manner -- and then secretly wish for them to pursue me. (They usually don't). Indirectly in this way, I often set myself up to be disappointed. But then, it seems to me that the ones who have vied to gain my attention directly haven't been challenging enough.

In the end, it seems I may see my value as determined by the difficulty (initial indifference) of untimately winning the affection/attention of the prize.

[redbaron]

paranoid Si:
i relate to this the least. although it may seem at times that nobody values me, i can't say it's a real concern of mine. it's a given that nobody will value me because they do not really know me, and how can you value that which you do not know? i do not want someone to strive to attain me. this notion sounds miserable. either take me all at once, or let me take you all at once, but don't "fight for me." Eek. drawn out seductions are embarrassingly passionate and predictable.

I'd like to point out here that just because one feels a certain way about something, doesn't mean that it plays out exactly in a straightforward path, as in A->B->C.

I DO in fact relate to paranoid Si, but it's a very core issue, and most of the scenarios I've created did NOT involve following the script of someone actually "fighting for me" or "striving to attain me". Most of the time, I seem to choose someone unavailable in some manner -- and then secretly wish for them to pursue me. (They usually don't). Indirectly in this way, I often set myself up to be disappointed. But then, it seems to me that the ones who have vied to gain my attention directly haven't been challenging enough.

In the end, it seems I may see my value as determined by the difficulty (initial indifference) of untimately winning the affection/attention of the prize.

Yes, I relate to this. I know exactly what you're saying. In the end, you may grow so tired of the resulting disappointment of the unattainable that you give in to the ones who give you attention more directly. Which could be a relief in some ways as long as you're not settling for the easy catch (which I'm not implying you would do!).

[Expat]

Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

From what I know of ESEs - and I've known a few well - I think it fits them. I have less experience with the other Si types.

[redbaron]

Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed

From what I know of ESEs - and I've known a few well - I think it fits them. I have less experience with the other Si types.

Yes, it fits my ESE husband well. But so does the Ne, "to be evaluated". Not sure which fits better.

[Expat]

excellent work! can we wiki this?

I intend to include it there. This is one of the most insightful contributions I've seen in quite some time.

*bows to Gilly*

[Gilly]

Why thank you, I'm rather flattered

[Blaze]

*high fives to gilly* :wink:

[reyn_til_runa]

so, gilly, it seems my responses do not fit the mold. glitch?