Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
IME, INFjs are naively optimistic about this. So that statement is a huge blow to any INFj argument. Look at rockclimber, for example. INFjs seem to naively hope everyone will live up to their standards. I, on the other hand, anticipate much less from people.Originally Posted by FDG
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I just kind of skimmed it, but it looks good. I'm glad you found your type. :wink:
And considering how often it seems that people type as what would be their dual (i.e. ENTj or ISFj? ENFj or ISTj?) comes around in this case too.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
... I suppose I will wait for people to digest that. There are more things I will bring up later, but for now, I will see how everyone stomachs this.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
beautiful formatting on that first post! I didn't read it but it sure is pretty to look at
UDP: "Hi! My name is UDP and I subconciously typed myself as ESTj because it is the exact opposite of my true type, which I steadfastly refuse to accept."
ENTp
beautiful formatting on that first post! I didn't read it but it sure is pretty to look atcreative, Bgoat. And no, I did not do it to go out of my way to look ESTj, but rather, when I am doing something that requires a lot of data like this, organizing it as such is very useful to me. It relates to
as a polr, as well - because it took a lot of time to arrange things like that.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
my only critisism is that at the beginning of the post there are empty lines in between the four page breaks and none between the four page breaks at the bottom of the post.
Not sure why that is, honestly. Oh yeah.........
I hit "return" between the top ones", and not the bottom ones.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Hmmm...a lack of symmetry, could be a serious problem.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I like the top version better
What the fuck is this shit? Why do you have to explain yourself?
lol.
The only reason I did it was for socionics, so people could understand. I wanted to explain some things I misunderstood, so hopefully other people learn from my errors. I will discuss some things if someone earnestly has a question, but there is little else for me to say - I'm done. And yes, discojoe, I have nothing to prove to anyone, that is correct.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Well...
I still have my reservations about your being an ESTj, but at this point it sounds like you're ready to stop introspecting so much and just move forward with your life, which is a very good idea. If ESTj works for you, go with it. :-)
Thank you Logos and Joy. Yes, I will have to live out being ESTj - but it seems a lot more fitting than any of the IJs, any irrational, and, so far, ENTj as well. We will see how it holds out. But as for all the analysis that can be made reasonably at this time, combined with my real life experience, ESTj is it.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I think I said you are an ESTj like a year ago! I don't remember what made me come to that conclusion. Sadly I didn't stick with that long enough to convince you (or myself
I have to get used to the idea of you being ESTj, but I will say that you seem to have a serious need for Fi and I have my Fi maternal instinct thing going with you pretty frequently. I think my maternal instincts kick in when I see someone need Fi anyway.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
get real. we all know you are a sweaty skinny dude jacked into a computer 8/7. and whatever value system you have doesn't define your type simply because it correlates with the board's stereotype of ESTj.
asd
This board has had some strange stereotypes of ESTj and I don't know why. Assuming Heath can't be one, and thinking Ezra must be one because he's arrogant, and then someone said that if a "real ESTj" ever showed up here he ("he" is another assumption about ESTjs btw) would make such a stink and nuisance of himself that we'd all know it. I know several ESTjs IRL and they're all really lovely people so that annoyed me.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
I'm sure you said that same about me a few months ago.I think I said you are an ESTj like a year ago! I don't remember what made me come to that conclusion. Sadly I didn't stick with that long enough to convince you (or myself
For the record, I am certainly not ESTj, regardless of what Ganin's Type Assistant might purport.
What! Are you seriously suggesting that physique determines type?
There's been thread about body type correlating with Socionics type, but it would be best not to get into the subject here.
I know that book that came out a few months ago that a lot of people here rejected exclaimed that type is determinable by body type. Apparently, if your spine kind of angles in near your cranium instead of continuine in a straight line, you are j and not p, and if you are muscly or broad, you are S, but if you're skinny, you could be S or N.
I thought UDP was a teenager and was corrected with the fact that he is 20. Regardless, he is young enough that his body type might be influenced by the fact that he's only 20.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Some of my closest friends have been ESTjs, and they had none of those characteristics, so I have no idea where those stereotypes came from.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I think it makes sense; the one thing I'm not sure you got right is
That post of yours in the "clingy" thread already made clear that you are a Fi quadra type.
You made a very good case for not being INTj and I have no objections to ESTj, but I'd take another look at ISFj.
I think it makes sense; the one thing I'm not sure you got right is
That post of yours in the "clingy" thread already made clear that you are a Fi quadra type.
You made a very good case for not being INTj and I have no objections to ESTj, but I'd take another look at ISFj.
What are the main differences between ESTj and ISFj, as they would apply for me?
What should I differentiate between, for myself, to decide between the two?
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
A test to check the correctness of your conclusion, UDP: You identify with the Club STs in Socionics, and with being a Guardian rather than a Rational in Keirsey's model, don't you?
show me a Keirsy description(s) that you think are good enough to use for differentiation.
I can relate to STs in socionics, yes.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Congratulations. I hope your right and can settle down into Delta
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
ISFjs appreciate help with Ni matters, ESTjs don't.
Aside from that...
I think ISFjs are less social than ESTjs are. ESTjs are comfortable talking and laughing with strangers at parties.
ISFjs have a colder appearance than ESTjs. ESTjs are more casual.
ISFjs are more forthright with "harsh" criticism than ESTjs, who will still criticize but are more likely to try to soften it a bit.
ESTjs are more likely to go along with and support whatever their partner's interests (activities) and beliefs are, ISFjs are more likely to have strong beliefs of their own, and to challenge their partner's reasons for their interests or beliefs (not that they're any less supportive).
With acquaintances, ESTjs generally try to be as helpful as they can be, offering loans, food, help with tasks, etc.... while ISFjs are less sympathetic and more impatient with acquaintances who foolishly get themselves into trouble, especially if they had been warned or if they had been in that situation before.
ESTjs typically enjoy going out to bars or parties, ISFjs would generally rather just hang out in smaller groups in quieter settings with people they know.
ESTjs tend to spend money on Si stuff more readily than ISFjs.
[s:fbc0d4a4e6]ESTjs seem more apt to think that joining the military is generally a good idea, while ISFjs would say it depends entirely on the person and the situation.
ESTjs are more socially traditional and more in tune with the way things are "supposed to be" than ISFjs. (Perhaps what I've seen in this regard is Aristocracy vs. Democracy?)[/s:fbc0d4a4e6]
Wow... I was married to an ESTj and am practically married to an ISFj... you'd think I'd be able to come up with more than that.(I think it's more a matter of determining what is and isn't type related. Some of what I did write may not be type related.)
I agree with everything except the last two in Joy's list. At least the ESTjs/ISFjs I know don't follow that pattern. But they follow the rest of the list.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Yeah, I debated not putting those in there, then opted to leave them but add the disclaimer at the end.
@ Joy: The general comparison between ISFj and ESTj which you had posted seems to be biased towards ESTj. Just my POV.
Funny, I know more ISFjs in the military than ESTjs, who are mostly going on to Med school or becoming teachers.
Doubtful, as probably the type with a pulse on the social scene is the Democratic ESFj.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
And to the rest of you, nm my last two points.
All you have to do is know me in real life and you could tell I am not INFj.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I think it was the other way around EzraI'm sure you said that same about me a few months ago.I think I said you are an ESTj like a year ago! I don't remember what made me come to that conclusion. Sadly I didn't stick with that long enough to convince you (or myself
For the record, I am certainly not ESTj, regardless of what Ganin's Type Assistant might purport.
This is probably true in close relationships but I think not for outsiders . I worked everyday with an ISFj woman and I had an ESTj boss. I've never reiceved any form of criticism from the ISFj but the ESTj was always buggering me about everything.
Unlikely...ESTjs are more likely to go along with and support whatever their partner's interests (activities) and beliefs are, ISFjs are more likely to have strong beliefs of their own, and to challenge their partner's reasons for their interests or beliefs (not that they're any less supportive).
ISFjs are IxFx types, you are describing a strong ExTx here. Also with a
BUT it could be different because you're talking about a male ISFj and I'm talking about ISFj girls.
[quote]
ESTjs are more socially traditional and more in tune with the way things are "supposed to be" than ISFjs. (Perhaps what I've seen in this regard is Aristocracy vs. Democracy?)[/s]
that's very accurate
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yeah but the INFj's one is the good way. If you just expect people to live up to standards, they will, because they have no reason not to. If you tell them what to do, instead, they will do the opposite just to spite.IME, INFjs are naively optimistic about this. So that statement is a huge blow to any INFj argument. Look at rockclimber, for example. INFjs seem to naively hope everyone will live up to their standards. I, on the other hand, anticipate much less from people.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
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