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Thread: Exertion information element pairings list

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    Default Exertion information element pairings list

    What follows is a list of the exertion element pairings and the activity patterns they suggest. I'm trying to cut out the influence of the metabolism types, but I may not be initially successful. I want to thank labcoat for his analysis of exertion type as the world in which one lives, as the immediate product of one's own activities.

    Starting with my own dominant pairing, FeNi.


    This pairing sees the world as comprised of self-contained units that are always in motion. An example would be the concept of the physical body, which contains within it molecules, which contains within it atoms, which contains within it subatomic particles. Each of these complexes contain within them moving objects, their collective movements observed as the substance of time's flow. Just as beta decay happens in atoms, and mutations within cells, so do changes in the organization of a contained object affect the operation of their containing objects, which leads to changes within the containing objects and by extension, to the objects containing them. Effectively, this pairing witnesses the world as a series of ever smaller universes, each with their own mechanics and timelines.


    This pairing observes a world of people and objects seeking fulfillment. Internal object dynamics are observed as the means of providing stimulus to stimulie. One such dynamic is the concept of nation: the nation exists as a form of collective identity that encourages people to look out for each other and provide for their mutual needs. A car engine is another such dynamic: the motion of the motor is the means by which gasoline gets to the engine, by which electricity gets to the ignition, and by which the person driving the car reaches their destination.


    This pairing witnesses a world of structures whose natures delimit ranges of possibility. Because the world is a structure, the arrangement of the structure determines what is permitted and what isn't. Consider the concept of law as an inhibitor of activity. If a law exists forbidding the government from providing a service, then it stands to reason that one could not receive the service by means of the government. The existence of the structure makes the event of the government's performance of the service impossible. On the other hand, if the law states that the government can provide the service if it is requested, the government's performance of the service is, conditions permitting, imminently realizable.


    This pairing sees a world of structures that possess the initiative of force. The quality of the structure determines the strength of the force. It is also indicative of whether or not the force may flow. Conditions on the exertion of force, including rules of combat and of physical restraint, belong to the considerations of this pairing.


    This pairing lives in a world of stimulie seeking stimulus. Depending on whether the stimulie can receive their stimulus, various internal object dynamics may or may not be allowed to function. The concept of fertilization is an example: the sperm stimulus is received by the egg stimulie, which enables the internal phenomenon of life to transpire in the egg. Another example is the concept of sensation: if sensory stimulie receives positive stimulus, then the person possessing the sensory organs will have a positive experience of life.


    In this pairing's reality, everything has a price. Depending on whether or not a required stimulus may be matched to a stimulie, it may or may not be possible to permit an exchange of information. Stimulie are perceived as communicative with other stimulie only in as much as they receive the stimulus the require.


    This pairing observes reality as a web of relationships, each strand of which allows the transport of a stimulus to a stimulie. Without the required relationships, there can be no acquisition of required stimulus.


    This pairing is witness to various products of the imagination. The existence of these products creates an impetus for their regulation by structure. Conversely, one can argue that without the products, the structures regulating them would not exist. A recent example of this pairing in action can be discerned in the backlash of American conservatives to Jessica Jackson's exposure of her breast during the SuperBowl. This event created an impetus for much more stringent regulations on public media, the like of which may not have been put in place had the event not occured.


    This pairing observes various products of the imagination as triggers for different kinds of emotions. Depending on what one allows to happen, people may feel differently as regards their situation. The event of the Holocaust, for example, reviled and disgusted the Allies while giving a sense of peace and accomplishment to the Nazis. A more mundane example can be found in the feelings created by the advent, at last, of the wedding one has imagined for years, now finally come into fruition.


    This pairing sees feeling as a trigger for force. Emotions may be observed as permissive or inhibitive of force. They are perceived as a means of its origin, and as conditions for its continued existence. Examples of this pairing at work can be discerned in the wills of nations to pursue war: fear equals war, while the waning of fear eventually leads to peace and the recession of armed force levels.


    This pairing observes structure as the consequence of force. By exerting force, one can restructure the world as one chooses; all that is needed is enough strength to overcome the existing structure. The threat of force is equally perceived as a means of changing law and order.


    This pairing is witness to the influence of force on feeling. The threat of force is observed as a means of producing feeling, and of arousing dormant motive forces into wakefulness. For all feelings that have been constellated, there is an energy at work setting them into motion. Simple examples of this pairing include the use of military might to intimidate nations, or the recollection of pleasant feelings when undertaking a favorite activity. More complex examples include the influence of the sun's rays on the balance of earth's ecosphere, and the use of wealth to stabilize an economy.


    This pairing observes a world of thresholds whose passage is necessary for the creation of connections between objects. Only once a field of activity has reached "critical mass" may a vital relationship be established. By selectively increasing given quantities of energy, one can control the formation of relationships and choose what relationships will manifest.


    This pairing is witness to "tipping points" that transpire when a certain threshold of activity is acheived within a field. Once this threshold is reached, the accumulated energy "spills" out of the field, creating a rush of emotional activity that is regulated by the dynamics of the receiving internal objects into a new subjective experience of reality.

    [in progress...]

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    This is more difficult than I imagined. Really, these pairings can only be described by the things they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    This is more difficult than I imagined. Really, these pairings can only be described by the things they do.
    In all honesty, tcaudilllg, this proposition seems much more complicated than people's root perceptions probably are, IMO.

    A better theory still requires a simple base, and this looks too ... diverse from the get-go.

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    I don't know who moved this thread, but I argue that their moderation powers be immediately stripped.

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    I was the one who suggested it be moved.
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    And frankly, I'm having a very difficult time understanding why you don't think this belongs in the non-socionics forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    And frankly, I'm having a very difficult time understanding why you don't think this belongs in the non-socionics forum.
    Because it is socionics.

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    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    okay, what's my exertion type? :wink:
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    ah, curious about mine as well!
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

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    To be clear, tcaudilllg, I support your development of your theory... maybe there's something to it... I wouldn't know... I just don't want you to call it Socionics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    To be clear, tcaudilllg, I support your development of your theory... maybe there's something to it... I wouldn't know... I just don't want you to call it Socionics.
    You are hardly the arbiter of what is and isn't socionics. Technically, anything that explains the interworking of the information elements in a logical, reasonable manner, is socionics. Just because the Socionics Institute doesn't recognize it as such means nothing, because people can equally choose not to recognize the institute.

    As for your exertion type, we need to ask two questions.

    First question: you see people talking. What are they talking about? Fit what they are talking about to an information element, and you've got the first half of your exertion type. Obviously people can talk about many different things, but what makes a conversation interesting to you?

    To assist you, choose from this list.

    Introverted Intuition (Cumulative Progression)
    The processing of the cumulative progression of an information metabolism element's activity, abstractly described by the algorithmic series "A + B = A + B = A ...", whereas A and B are cases of information observed by the metabolism type.


    Extraverted Intuition (Spontaneous Instantiation)
    The spontaneous emergence of a new case of information into being, made possible by the release of the potential energy held by one or more objects. The case is of the metabolizing element.


    Extraverted Logic (Bond Logic)
    The act of a link or bind between two objects. (external dynamics of objects) The origin of the bind is owed to a case of the metabolizing element.


    Introverted Logic (Heiarchial Logic)
    An impetus for the organization of information is created. Similarly, the conditions for the disorganization of the same information are perceived. The information organized is of the metabolizing element.


    Extraverted Sensing (Motor Volition)
    A force of some magnitude is imparted upon an object. The force exerted is characterized by the metabolizing element.


    Introverted Sensing (Interrelative Exchange)
    An interrelationship is engaged between two fields. The character of the interrelationship is defined by the metabolizing element.


    Extraverted Ethics (Existential Response)
    An experience of internal change is undergone by an object. The kind of change experienced reflects the influence of the metabolizing element.

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    Most of the time it's stupid superficial shit, and they're trying to look good. It's rather sickening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Fit what they are talking about to an information element, and you've got the first half of your exertion type.
    They're talking about things that are happening with the people in their lives. Fi stuff mostly, I guess. But what I see is them trying to look good and be emotionally expressive... Fe.

    Now, for this exercise I pictured in my mind a couple of girls I had to walk around at a grocery store recently. They were talking like that. If I hadn't seen them just recently, I may have had a different answer.
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    For those who didn't know, tcaudilllg doesn't work for free! You need to pay him first! (Or suck his balls, if you're low on budget)

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Listen, I'm not your typing toy alright? I don't see a reason to type you nor will I. If you want to help me make a test by which your type may be reliably figured, then I welcome the assistance. But you should not expect my assistance without offering me something in return, because you are obviously not naturally disposed to such.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Fit what they are talking about to an information element, and you've got the first half of your exertion type.
    They're talking about things that are happening with the people in their lives. Fi stuff mostly, I guess. But what I see is them trying to look good and be emotionally expressive... Fe.

    Now, for this exercise I pictured in my mind a couple of girls I had to walk around at a grocery store recently. They were talking like that. If I hadn't seen them just recently, I may have had a different answer.
    This actually makes a lot of sense. In particular, it explains your grasp of socionics as a phenomenon that is inferred through fact.

    Next question: you are planning something. What are you planning, and how does the figure into what is planned? Also relevant, when people are trying to make themselves look good, what are they hoping to gain by it, information element-wise, in your view?

    Also, we can get to the matter of exertion PoLR. Does bad health/bad interrelationships patterns lead to problems of finding effective stimulus, or to a general worsening of your condition? That is, do you find yourself worrying about how things could get worse than they already are, or about finding solutions to the health problems you already have? (when in bad health)

    I think though, that this quote may be all that's needed to conclude your exertion type.
    Most of the time it's stupid superficial shit, and they're trying to look good. It's rather sickening.
    , exertion ESE.

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    ahhhh stop editing!

    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Obviously people can talk about many different things, but what makes a conversation interesting to you?
    I'm having a hard time distinguishing how this is anything different than my own existing quadra values.

    To assist you, choose from this list.

    Introverted Intuition (Cumulative Progression)
    The processing of the cumulative progression of an information metabolism element's activity, abstractly described by the algorithmic series "A + B = A + B = A ...", whereas A and B are cases of information observed by the metabolism type.


    Extraverted Intuition (Spontaneous Instantiation)
    The spontaneous emergence of a new case of information into being, made possible by the release of the potential energy held by one or more objects. The case is of the metabolizing element.


    Extraverted Logic (Bond Logic)
    The act of a link or bind between two objects. (external dynamics of objects) The origin of the bind is owed to a case of the metabolizing element.


    Introverted Logic (Heiarchial Logic)
    An impetus for the organization of information is created. Similarly, the conditions for the disorganization of the same information are perceived. The information organized is of the metabolizing element.


    Extraverted Sensing (Motor Volition)
    A force of some magnitude is imparted upon an object. The force exerted is characterized by the metabolizing element.


    Introverted Sensing (Interrelative Exchange)
    An interrelationship is engaged between two fields. The character of the interrelationship is defined by the metabolizing element.


    Extraverted Ethics (Existential Response)
    An experience of internal change is undergone by an object. The kind of change experienced reflects the influence of the metabolizing element.
    lol this doesn't help me at all.... I have no idea what you're talking about to be honest. Using my own understanding of the IM Elements, I'd say that when a conversation with a casual acquaintance is interesting, it's related to a dynamic IM Element most of the time. It's hard to choose between Ni and Te. If it's a conversation that I'm listening to and not participating in, Te is what makes it interesting. Delta ST talk quickly bores me though, unless the topic of conversation is one which holds a particular interest for me, such as related to my line of work. In interacting with those I'm close to it's different, but if I understand the question correctly, an interesting random conversation with random people is what I should be looking at. Ugh now I'm thinking about Se and Ne, too... I love seeing ESFps talk to people when they're telling them what to do. It amazes me, especially when they're talking to INxx types. And then there's Ni again. UGH I don't know. Self-analysis is not my strong suit (obviously ).
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Fit what they are talking about to an information element, and you've got the first half of your exertion type.
    They're talking about things that are happening with the people in their lives. Fi stuff mostly, I guess. But what I see is them trying to look good and be emotionally expressive... Fe.

    Now, for this exercise I pictured in my mind a couple of girls I had to walk around at a grocery store recently. They were talking like that. If I hadn't seen them just recently, I may have had a different answer.
    This actually makes a lot of sense. In particular, it explains your grasp of socionics as a phenomenon that is inferred through fact.
    I dunno, I see Socionics as being about inter type relations, the dynamics people's interactions of all of their functions. I guess it's more of a Fi phenomenon than Fe.

    Next question: you are planning something. What are you planning, and how does the figure into what is planned?
    A necessary evil that exists in this world for the purpose of other people's comfort. Something which I have no choice but to play along with in order to attain my goals.

    Also relevant, when people are trying to make themselves look good, what are they hoping to gain by it, information element-wise, in your view?
    Fe + Se, most of the time.

    I think though, that this quote may be all that's needed to conclude your exertion type.
    Most of the time it's stupid superficial shit, and they're trying to look good. It's rather sickening.
    , exertion ESE.
    I'm supposed to be disgusted by my exertion type's functions?

    Also, we can get to the matter of exertion PoLR. Does bad health/bad interrelationships patterns lead to problems of finding effective stimulus, or to a general worsening of your condition? That is, do you find yourself worrying about how things could get worse than they already are, or about finding solutions to the health problems you already have? (when in bad health)
    lol, that's the same thing for me. I can send you a PM about this if you want, but I'd rather not discuss it here. The first part in itself though, no. I know things are going to be fine. At my worst I just doubt my ability to get there without a lot of time and effort that I have no idea how I'll be able to come up with.
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    Sweet, now that we've got all of the self-deception coralled in one thread, maybe we can make some progress in Socionics!
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Right, you need facts to determine who you are. You make plans to meet other's needs. You accept roles that seem relevant to your experience of life, and form relationships with people who have similar experiences. The aim of a social role, in your view, is always to head off some approaching social disaster that threatens the life of your community. You are open to suggestion with regard to what people are feeling, and from these suggestions you structure your life appropriately. These structures seem to offer a sense of power or wealth, the acquisition of which can allow you to fill the needs of yourself and others. As a means of self-defense, you appeal to a higher authority, and in so doing constellate an emotional firestorm based on people's reaction to the invoked authority; some stand with you, others against you, and still more are uncommital. You endevor to bring more people unto the acceptance of this authority, by which a new common power may be released.

    I'll need to think more about this. More later.

    I'm supposed to be disgusted by my exertion type's functions?
    No, but it is a constant that whenever you see people trying to create weak activity, you will be disgusted. You specifically used the word "sickening". The word choice is relevant because you had to express your feelings as a metaphor for sickness. This indicates your fixation on health as a confident creative product.

    You couldn't be exertion because a exertion type would never accept such a concept as a "necessary evil". If evil exist, it must be purged, says . immediacy is clearly given more weight than progression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Right, you need facts to determine who you are. You make plans to meet other's needs. You accept roles that seem relevant to your experience of life, and form relationships with people who have similar experiences. The aim of a social role, in your view, is always to head off some approaching social disaster that threatens the life of your community. You are open to suggestion with regard to what people are feeling, and from these suggestions you structure your life appropriately. These structures seem to offer a sense of power or wealth, the acquisition of which can allow you to fill the needs of yourself and others. As a means of self-defense, you appeal to a higher authority, and in so doing constellate an emotional firestorm based on people's reaction to the invoked authority; some stand with you, others against you, and still more are uncommital. You endevor to bring more people unto the acceptance of this authority, by which a new common power may be released.

    I'll need to think more about this. More later.
    This isn't anything like me, actually. You're giving way too much emphasis to Fe. To be more specific...

    Right, you need facts to determine who you are.
    It doesn't matter how many facts I have. Being unable to recognize and understand my own feelings is the issue.


    You make plans to meet other's needs.
    If so, it's not something I think about all that much. I probably do that less than others do.

    You accept roles that seem relevant to your experience of life, and form relationships with people who have similar experiences.
    Roles? wtf... No. The word literally pisses me off. And the people I have relationships with often have very different backgrounds than mine.

    The aim of a social role, in your view, is always to head off some approaching social disaster that threatens the life of your community.
    If so, I definitely don't think about it in those terms. I do try to make things work better overall, which in turn is better for anyone it affects, but it's not a "social role", it's who I am. And what is community? People who live near each other? If I am taking an interest in people I don't know, it's because they're human, not because of ANYTHING that has to do with society or community.

    You are open to suggestion with regard to what people are feeling, and from these suggestions you structure your life appropriately.
    Again, if I do anything like that, I don't think about it in those terms. Generally I use Ni and Te (more so Ni) to determine what others are feeling, but I certainly do not structure my life around it.

    These structures seem to offer a sense of power or wealth, the acquisition of which can allow you to fill the needs of yourself and others.
    Substitute "structures" for "long term goals", and you're getting closer. It's not about power though, and only about money in terms of financial freedom.

    As a means of self-defense, you appeal to a higher authority, and in so doing constellate an emotional firestorm based on people's reaction to the invoked authority
    Whatever works. The way I see it, it's just smart to understand the dynamics of a situation and use them to your advantage. Sometimes that means going over people's heads. It can mean a lot of other things though, too.

    some stand with you, others against you, and still more are uncommital
    irrelevant

    You endevor to bring more people unto the acceptance of this authority, by which a new common power may be released.
    Not at all. People should do what they want. And the "a" word pisses me off, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    I'm supposed to be disgusted by my exertion type's functions?
    No, but it is a constant that whenever you see people trying to create weak activity, you will be disgusted. You specifically used the word "sickening". The word choice is relevant because you had to express your feelings as a metaphor for sickness. This indicates your fixation on health as a confident creative product.

    You couldn't be exertion because a exertion type would never accept such a concept as a "necessary evil". If evil exist, it must be purged, says . immediacy is clearly given more weight than progression.
    Fe only makes sense in the super ego. It's unvalued in the VERY least.
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    Fine, if you're not going to work with me, screw it. Stop posting in my thread.

    And move it back to general discussion, where it belongs.

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    How am I not working with you? Would agreeing that something describes me when it does not help anyone arrive at more accurate results?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    How am I not working with you? Would agreeing that something describes me when it does not help anyone arrive at more accurate results?
    You're trying to look at this as quadra values. It's not, it's a question of energy and what energies lead to what.

    You perceive aspects of bodies and fields. All of these aspects are setting about some kind of energy, because ours is not a motionless world. The question is, what energies are being set in motion. People of the same type can be attuned to different energies.

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    If an IM Element doesn't need to be strong or valued, then a Si type is a possibility.

    I still don't understand your theory and don't see myself reading a bunch of stuff about it, to be perfectly honest. Now, I'm not saying that it is or isn't valid. I guess I'm curious enough to have a conversation about it, but not enough to invest any significant amount of time or energy into learning all about it.
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    Not talking about IM elements at all, only the IE elements discussed above. The IE elements are what the IM elements do.

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    Okay... then Si could still work (provided it can be weak and unvalued), Fe still doesn't make sense though. (My reaction to Fe is explained thoroughly by model A.)

    ISTp could work.
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    I'll be looking it up over the next several days. I saved several (lengthly) samples of your writing from which to draw my analyses. I'll get back to you when I've made a determination, with evidence.

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    okay, thanks (make sure the things I wrote were all from the past year though please)
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    Here's a few questions that you could answer which might make it easier for us to find your exertion type:

    - What kind of information do you look for when you learn about socionics? Do you like type-descriptions or do you prefer to go by functions? What's your stance to the Reinin Dichtomies? Do you find the deeply theoretical aspects (such as + and - functions) of the theory useful and interesting, or not?

    - How do you type people?

    Also, the exertion type is used almost exclusively when we describe objects or happenings external to us that don't have an immediate significance to our own lives. If you can describe something, such as the sun, what a school is, what a summer's day at noon looks like, etc. in your own way, we'd get some excellent clues on what your exertion type is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Here's a few questions that you could answer which might make it easier for us to find your exertion type:

    - What kind of information do you look for when you learn about socionics? Do you like type-descriptions or do you prefer to go by functions? What's your stance to the Reinin Dichtomies? Do you find the deeply theoretical aspects (such as + and - functions) of the theory useful and interesting, or not?

    - How do you type people?
    Primarily quadra values, then temperaments and functions. Most importantly, I see the Socion as consisting of 8 dual pairs. I think of types as the interactions between duals (not the people, the functions).

    The Reinin Dichtomies can provide clues, but these are more obvious in some types and some individuals than others. For example, ESTj vs. ENTj, as I've written about recently, largely comes down to strategist vs. tactics. (Seeing ESTjs as caregivers is also helpful if you've ever known a Si creative type before. )

    The +/- functions are something that I don't find useful, but I've never seen any good, concise information on them. Generally I think it's not wise to make the theory any more complex than it already is, at least from the standpoint of practical application and the mental wellness and balance of Socionics hobbyists.

    Also, the exertion type is used almost exclusively when we describe objects or happenings external to us that don't have an immediate significance to our own lives. If you can describe something, such as the sun, what a school is, what a summer's day at noon looks like, etc. in your own way, we'd get some excellent clues on what your exertion type is.
    I'll have to come back to this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Most of the time it's stupid superficial shit, and they're trying to look good. It's rather sickening.
    , exertion ESE.
    that is sort of hilarious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Also, the exertion type is used almost exclusively when we describe objects or happenings external to us that don't have an immediate significance to our own lives. If you can describe something, such as the sun
    When I think of the sun, the immediate picture that comes to mind is the way it would look high in a blue sky, with very little view of the sky and nothing besides the run and sky right off hand. It's warm on my face and I have to squint my eyes and feel like I should turn away. My attention only stays on that image for a split second though, and then it immediately shifts to a larger scale image of the sun, the type you'd see on an astronomy diagram. Then I'm thinking vaguely about space.

    what a school is
    The immediate feeling that comes to mind is that of frustration with being forced to attend school when I was younger and the stupidity of it all... they tell you where to go, when to be there, what do to, when to have it done by, what to learn about... make sure your desks are in a neat row and your eyes to the front of the room. Ugh. It's training for the worker ants.

    Then I remember that there's college and whatnot, too, and that brings a more positive feeling to mind. College is more about what you're learning than anything, and no one's forcing you to go. It's people wanting to better their lives. But then I'm reminded of the upper middle class mindset and get irritated again.

    what a summer's day at noon looks like
    eh... whatever I happen to be doing at the time
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    For some reason Joy is extremely difficult to type.

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    Yeah, that's what a few people have suggested.
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    Let's try this: tell us your opinions.

    Oh man this is really difficult, primarily because you make it a priority to be as well understood as possible. But your opinions are mostly , right? If we could just see that aggression in action, we could deduce its nature, and very likely unravel the sequence of your exertion functions.

    I'll try again with this here, ...very difficult to match up what you say with IM elements.

    One thing I am absolutely certain of: your sensory IM elements are matched with intuitive exertion elements, and vice versa. You have the "sensory-intuitive" aura of peacefulness with the tenor of your surroundings.


    Right now I'm thinking maybe ISTj.

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    The immediate feeling that comes to mind is that of frustration with being forced to attend school when I was younger and the stupidity of it all... they tell you where to go, when to be there, what do to, when to have it done by, what to learn about... make sure your desks are in a neat row and your eyes to the front of the room.
    Ok, here people are telling you where to direct your energies, and their directions always seem to be changing. This sounds like vulnerable. They also want these things done at specific times, but these times are variable and spontaneous. exertion.

    Ugh. It's training for the worker ants.

    Then I remember that there's college and whatnot, too, and that brings a more positive feeling to mind. College is more about what you're learning than anything, and no one's forcing you to go. It's people wanting to better their lives. But then I'm reminded of the upper middle class mindset and get irritated again.
    I see it now. The momentary disgust with the PoLR experience (+ according to Hitta) is the trigger for entry into the vital track, in the form of the memory that the possibility of college exists. This is the trigger for a feeling whose observation is a positive experience, the act of learning in college. The learning is empowering, which in turn offers the capacity for better liiving.

    ENTj-ISTj.

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    How can you spew all this generalized bullshit about the "upper middle class mindset" when you've never BEEN in the upper middle class? Isn't that just a wee bit presumptuous?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    The immediate feeling that comes to mind is that of frustration with being forced to attend school when I was younger and the stupidity of it all... they tell you where to go, when to be there, what do to, when to have it done by, what to learn about... make sure your desks are in a neat row and your eyes to the front of the room.
    Ok, here people are telling you where to direct your energies, and their directions always seem to be changing. This sounds like vulnerable. They also want these things done at specific times, but these times are variable and spontaneous. exertion.

    Ugh. It's training for the worker ants.

    Then I remember that there's college and whatnot, too, and that brings a more positive feeling to mind. College is more about what you're learning than anything, and no one's forcing you to go. It's people wanting to better their lives. But then I'm reminded of the upper middle class mindset and get irritated again.
    I see it now. The momentary disgust with the PoLR experience (+ according to Hitta) is the trigger for entry into the vital track, in the form of the memory that the possibility of college exists. This is the trigger for a feeling whose observation is a positive experience, the act of learning in college. The learning is empowering, which in turn offers the capacity for better liiving.

    ENTj-ISTj.
    Interesting. Thank you.
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