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Thread: LIIs/INTjs social skills, meeting new people, shyness and leadership

  1. #1
    Creepy-Justin

    Default LIIs/INTjs social skills, meeting new people, shyness and leadership

    I am an INTJ.I have tried acquiring social skills from my childhood.(My mother is an ENFP.She always used to push me into social situations and blame me for moving away from people.)I tried putting me in social situations continously.I am 27 year old now.I started losing my hope that I can have good social life.I feel like losing all my confidence in a social situations.This is killing me in my job too.In meetings I am silent eventhough I know many things.I feel like I am a peak INTJ.Can someone help me in giving very good practical tips to have a comfortable social skills?

  2. #2
    Creepy-

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    -Just have a couple drinks every time you need to be social. Carry a small flask and your problems are solved.
    -Cocaine is good too.
    -2-3 straight cups of coffee or 2-3 redbulls works as well.

    Nothing else will work man. Just learn to become a functioning addict and you'll have the power to speak up!!

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    @Guest.

    I find that if I build up my confidence in other ways, I have more confidence in social situations. Now, I'm saying this as a socially inept person, mind you. :wink:
    Exercising helps for some reason...makes me feel kind of powerful and sexy and therefore more confident.

    Also, it's easier to get along w/ people when you are working towards a goal or project w/ them. When I'm forced to be in charge of something that builds confidence.

    And sometimes you've just got to force yourself to socialize. *shrug* Try to make a concious effort to get past small talk and into something interesting, then you can hopefully forget about yourself.
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

  4. #4
    Creepy-Justin

    Default INTJ social skills--can someone help ?

    Thanks for the reply..
    Wow...These were my old methods..This works only temporary.Moreover once I will have trouble after hangover.Any tips for long term ?without getting into these bad habits.

  5. #5
    Creepy-Justin

    Default INTJ social skills--can someone help

    XcaliburGirl,

    Your comments are really valuable..Thanks very much..My above reply was for the 1st reply.

    Justin

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    Just start playing with people's emotions ... or not ... I hate having a PoLR ...

    Maybe if you forced yourself to be more assertive and start to practice using your , it will get better after a while and you will appear more charming.

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    I tend to act more and more semi-extroverted. At first I tried to get past the small talk, also I talked easier with people I had a common coal with.

    The next phase was when I concentrated on talking to everyone I know. I walk on the streets and recognize people all the time. I just make sure that I smile and say "hi" to every one of them. (and not the introverted shy smile, but a genuine "I'm really happy to see you"-smile.) That helps because usually I don't even talk to them, but they are much friendlier towards me when I see then in another occasion. It's easier to talk then. PS! This might be slightly difficult at first, but it does give a lot of confidence. The first time the person might not even recognize you, but the next time he/she might actually say "hi" before you even notice him/her. In some time, you will be walking and every now and then you see someone who is really happy to see you, even if you two don't really talk.

    The phase after that: you imagine how difficult it is for them to talk to you. Many people you talk to occasionally are introverts, maybe even INTj. They want to talk to someone and if you just have to make it as easy as possible for them. It is best to start with introverts and try to open them up. Extroverts are slightly exhausting and therefore more difficult to talk to.

    I was very quiet in high school and I have been training my social skills for over 3 years. I still have a problem with large groups of strangers, standing in front of the class and some extremely extroverted people. On the other hand, I am the most talkative and open person in familiar introverted groups, I often see people who say hi, I make new acquaintances fairly easily and I feel like most people like to talk to me.

    I wish you luck and determination in your quest.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Very wise words Kris. Some key points I have picked up on:
    • - introverts naturally understand the social habits of introverts so who better to pick a conversation with, at least to begin with.
      - introvert to extrovert socialising requires more practice since extroverts don't naturally understand the social habits of introverts and perhaps expect constant chatter rather then "the introvert pause".
      - as an INTj there is the small talk dillemma, having a point to a seemingly pointless conversation. i think it can be very hard especially when you might rationally know the likely type your chatting with hence some rational idea of where the relations gonna head and whether you're already interested in pursuing it.

    Does an INTj actually need to be more social in the context that society might expect? I can be the Don Juan of instant messaging but the Don Mute of crowded bars. Even my ENTp friend has gained an understanding of this and suggested that perhap i should just stick to internet dating. Funny thing though is that where i'm no stranger to internet dating, i have plenty of contacts who either wouldn't consider it or don't have the patience and actually ask me if i can sort them out with some dates off the net. They'll have to wait for my next book on it.

    The INTj as an Infopreneur kinda sounds about right for the 21st century.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

  9. #9
    Creepy-Justin

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    Kristina,

    Thank you for your valuable comments..

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    Default Re: INTJ social skills--can someone help ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin
    I am an INTJ.I have tried acquiring social skills from my childhood.(My mother is an ENFP.She always used to push me into social situations and blame me for moving away from people.)I tried putting me in social situations continously.I am 27 year old now.I started losing my hope that I can have good social life.I feel like losing all my confidence in a social situations.This is killing me in my job too.In meetings I am silent eventhough I know many things.I feel like I am a peak INTJ.Can someone help me in giving very good practical tips to have a comfortable social skills?
    this probably won't help much as i tend to have the same problems. INTJ's simply aren't social, if people could only read minds - but alas, their heads would explode.

    i find that simply being myself works pretty well. this means, be saracastic, but do it with a smile. if they understand that it's sarcastic (or a friendly kind of mean), they will laugh. use humor, but don't tell jokes unless your good at it.

    speak to everyone on your level, those under you, and those above you. i never talk up to someone. personally i don't think i have that many friends, however it seems i do - everyone knows who i am. and considering I'm at least 80% introverted, and over 200 people know who i am, i guess I'm doing well enough.

    of course the hard part comes to talking to girls. this is where i haven't figured it all out yet. i know lot's of stuff. i can answer some of the strangest questions, go as deep as they want to pry. but people have to ask the questions first, and none ever do.

    i've found that simply being myself for the other's though - many find me a curiosity. i don't say good morning (i don't see the point), i'm here, your here, the feeling of good is rarely there. if they want to say it, fine, if they don't fine. many say it out of custom, if you don't they won't. if they really mean it, they will say it regardless of you. many simply like hearing the honest truth. it's something very rare to find these days. so many pleasantries - i get right to the matter. and though abrupt, it seems many actually like that. and if they don't - tough.

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    This is killing me in my job too.In meetings I am silent eventhough I know many things.
    I tend not to say much at meetings myself... but if they're discussing something that I know very well, especially if I think I have a valuable idea that no one else knows, then I will say something...
    INTJ

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    Default Re: INTJ social skills--can someone help ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin
    I am an INTJ.I have tried acquiring social skills from my childhood.(My mother is an ENFP.She always used to push me into social situations and blame me for moving away from people.)I tried putting me in social situations continously.I am 27 year old now.I started losing my hope that I can have good social life.I feel like losing all my confidence in a social situations.This is killing me in my job too.In meetings I am silent eventhough I know many things.I feel like I am a peak INTJ.Can someone help me in giving very good practical tips to have a comfortable social skills?
    this probably won't help much as i tend to have the same problems. INTJ's simply aren't social, if people could only read minds - but alas, their heads would explode.

    i find that simply being myself works pretty well. this means, be saracastic, but do it with a smile. if they understand that it's sarcastic (or a friendly kind of mean), they will laugh. use humor, but don't tell jokes unless your good at it.

    speak to everyone on your level, those under you, and those above you. i never talk up to someone. personally i don't think i have that many friends, however it seems i do - everyone knows who i am. and considering I'm at least 80% introverted, and over 200 people know who i am, i guess I'm doing well enough.

    of course the hard part comes to talking to girls. this is where i haven't figured it all out yet. i know lot's of stuff. i can answer some of the strangest questions, go as deep as they want to pry. but people have to ask the questions first, and none ever do.

    i've found that simply being myself for the other's though - many find me a curiosity. i don't say good morning (i don't see the point), i'm here, your here, the feeling of good is rarely there. if they want to say it, fine, if they don't fine. many say it out of custom, if you don't they won't. if they really mean it, they will say it regardless of you. many simply like hearing the honest truth. it's something very rare to find these days. so many pleasantries - i get right to the matter. and though abrupt, it seems many actually like that. and if they don't - tough.
    True..Nothing will work for INTJ in social situations...better be yourself and leave everything to god....Avoid changing organization or locations frequently
    INTJ

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    i think getting an Extraverted friend may be good idea..
    INTJ

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    Yeah, I'm one of like 5 out of maybe like 80 people at my youth group that is Introverted, and not only that in the "Student Leaders" (12) I'm the only introverted one let alone one of two NTj's. But, In surrounding myself with a whole bunch of almost polar opposites, I've began to understand that no one will understand me completely. In AP English, the teacher dosn't like my word choice, and so on. However, I'd suggest just asking for names on a regular base. If you start to talk with someone, get their name and so on.

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    "it doesn't matter if your black or white"

    michael jackson was obviously talking about Socionics functions :wink:
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    Default Any tips to increase the EI of an INTJ

    I was wondering is there any suggestions / tips to increase the Emotional Intelligence specific to INTJ .
    INTJ

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    Default Re: Any tips to increase the EI of an INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by joseph2505
    I was wondering is there any suggestions / tips to increase the Emotional Intelligence specific to INTJ .
    make him motivated to develop his Ethics (black and white)... but INTj's are nearly impossible to motivate lol

    more seriously, INTj's are not really EI-based ; they are basically not interested by that. If one want a INTj to be freindly, he must deserve it (i.e. by respecting him).

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    Are you attempting to develop your own emotional intelligence, or are you attempting to convince others that you are a warm, caring, emotional being?

    To develop your own, get the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie and check out those other 'self-help/improvement' books at a bookstore or library.

    Or, if you are a sociopath and want to convince everyone otherwise, just pay careful attention to how other people react to environmental stimuli and emulate it. "A puppy was run over? Everyone looks sad. So, next time, I shall look sad!"


    Seriously, get the books and spend time with emotional people, and you'll get the hang of it. Emotional intelligence isn't really benchmarked or anything, so there's no real way to know when you've achieved your goal, so good luck with it.
    INTJ.
    I like money. You should, too.
    http://www.working-minds.com/money.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    Are you attempting to develop your own emotional intelligence, or are you attempting to convince others that you are a warm, caring, emotional being?
    I'm already a warm and caring being, but only when I want. An INTj can be very empathetic, you know ?

    To develop your own, get the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie and check out those other 'self-help/improvement' books at a bookstore or library.
    Or, if you are a sociopath and want to convince everyone otherwise, just pay careful attention to how other people react to environmental stimuli and emulate it. "A puppy was run over? Everyone looks sad. So, next time, I shall look sad!"
    I don't like self-development. Self-development is really based on social adaptation, and stipulates that, to be successful, you must be over-compliant and pay attention to minor things like eye movement. do you know NLP ?

    Seriously, get the books and spend time with emotional people, and you'll get the hang of it. Emotional intelligence isn't really benchmarked or anything, so there's no real way to know when you've achieved your goal, so good luck with it.
    I like emotional people, they don't like me because they think I'm heartless lol. you know I-types don't really like to waste time...

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    I'm already a warm and caring being, but only when I want. An INTj can be very empathetic, you know ?
    Well, I was actually kind of serious when I said emulate other people. I know that's what I do -- most of the time, I don't give a crap about what people are talking about, but I know how to look concerned and how to soften my voice, look them in the eye and say "No matter what, I'll always be here for you." and all that crap. So, kudos for having a heart.

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    I don't like self-development. Self-development is really based on social adaptation, and stipulates that, to be successful, you must be over-compliant and pay attention to minor things like eye movement. do you know NLP ?
    Neuro-linguistic programming, God-damn-you Tony Robbins and your hideous teeth.
    Yeah, I know of NLP. I actually enjoy reading about stuff like body language and what-not, I view it as yet another tool that I have at my disposal. And I tend to naturally pay attention to everything (fairly strong eidetic memory) so it doesn't inconvenience me any.


    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    I like emotional people, they don't like me because they think I'm heartless lol. you know I-types don't really like to waste time...
    The trick here is to pair yourself up with someone who is warm and friendly, and work as a team. For example, my buddy Victor and I work great as a team. I feed him information and otherwise take in the environment, he acts upon the environment, charms the world and does what needs to be done.
    INTJ.
    I like money. You should, too.
    http://www.working-minds.com/money.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    I took an online EI test a couple days ago. It said I was below-average. I think that was partly because I'm not outgoing, extroverted, all that fun stuff. I say, don't sweat it, just remember to be polite.
    in individuals, EQ has basically an inverted correlation with IQ. EQ is related to right-brain elements (S and F elements) and IQ is related to left-brain elements (N and T elements) ; normally if you have an IQ of the 65th percentile, you would have an EQ of the 35th percentile (65 + 35 = 100) percentiles should add to something between 80 and 120. introversion is often confused with logic. strong logic = weak ethics, basically you can't have one's cake and eat it...

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    Default LIIs/INTjs social skills, meeting new people, shyness and leadership potential

    Over Spring Break I went to Washington DC with a group of friends in a campus organization. By the end of the DC trip, I had developed a reputation among the freshmen as an excellent conversation partner who can sustain an interesting conversation in which I would be genuinely interested in their lives. This past weekend I went on the annual beach retreat for the same campus organizations where a similar theme appeared as well. In fact, as I later was explicitly told by my friends during the beach trip, this quality had apparently made me a valuable and sought after road companion.

    Over the course of these two retreats I slowly began to realize that the LII has a certain strength even in social situations through my own conversations and interactions. LII are for the most part are socially awkward. There is little getting around this basic reality. There is a great disdain on our parts for "small talk" which is a form (if not the main form) of social ritual that we for some reason have difficulties in overcoming. It baffles us because it is so empty and meaningless. It is saying something merely for the act of saying something; it is a ritual in which once completed the two parties go their separate ways in the satisfaction of appeasing the laws of the societal deities. Despite this social awkwardness, the LII does have a great (and often underflexed) strength in social interactions: analytical questioning. But how can analytical questioning be used socially?

    When the LII uses analytical questioning in conversations and avoids (or bypass) the smalltalk, the LII is able to avoid part of the stigma for social awkwardness. Also by asking questions, the LII is able to avoid talking or revealing too much about themselves. The other key is that the LII focuses on one person at a time. So the LII lets people talk about themselves which is pushed further through LII questioning, which is far less harsh and more willing to entertain all ideas than the ILI. The question which I know I asked the most (and had pointed out to me by others) was the question why? Why do you think that? Why does that interest you? Why X and not Y? The what is not nearly as important (or memorable for the LII) as the reasoning behind the what. By doing such, the conversation partner believes that the LII has a sincere interest in them as individuals, since not only are you learning about them, but you are getting them to rethink their beliefs.

    I may expand this later, but for now, I am just going to post this as it is.
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    In my opinion the real leadership capabilities of LIIs is overlooked and under-tapped.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    When the LII uses analytical questioning in conversations and avoids (or bypass) the smalltalk, the LII is able to avoid part of the stigma for social awkwardness. Also by asking questions, the LII is able to avoid talking or revealing too much about themselves. The other key is that the LII focuses on one person at a time. So the LII lets people talk about themselves which is pushed further through LII questioning, which is far less harsh and more willing to entertain all ideas than the ILI. The question which I know I asked the most (and had pointed out to me by others) was the question why? Why do you think that? Why does that interest you? Why X and not Y? The what is not nearly as important (or memorable for the LII) as the reasoning behind the what. By doing such, the conversation partner believes that the LII has a sincere interest in them as individuals, since not only are you learning about them, but you are getting them to rethink their beliefs.
    An excellent point. Using Ti in conversation is tricky.

    Yesterday I used a similar strategy in talking with an ESFj. I asked her about her primary goals in life, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    In my opinion the real leadership capabilities of LIIs is overlooked and under-tapped.
    I agree, but an LII's approaches to leadership will be different from the LII approach to social interaction. But I do believe in the necessity of a thread dedicated to LII-style leadership and their respective strengths and weaknesses therein.
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    I believe what you described to be an important part of LII leadership -- that is to say, making real connections and really understanding how a person works. That sort of communication is very important
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    In my opinion the real leadership capabilities of LIIs is overlooked and under-tapped.
    I might agree to a certain extent, but it's true only for the ones that have left away their pretense at home.

    In any case, good call Logos. Just make sure not to tell awkward jokes about number theory. An INTj I know was doing so well, until he started telling those maths jokes nobody except me understood.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    What an INTj shouldn't do also bears mentioning. There has to be some content to what an INTj is saying. INTjs should not merely express an opinion about something (e.g., "That movie was awesome."), that kind of behavior is best left to ESFps. Yet having no opinion whatsoever is just as bad (more INTp than INTj). The golden mean is to have reached a well-reasoned, impersonal conclusion about a topic that is interesting to other people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    In any case, good call Logos. Just make sure not to tell awkward jokes about number theory. An INTj I know was doing so well, until he started telling those maths jokes nobody except me understood.
    Thanks, but I can assure you that I have no desire or knowledge of math jokes to tell. As a matter of fact, I do not have a large collection of jokes in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    What an INTj shouldn't do also bears mentioning. There has to be some content to what an INTj is saying. INTjs should not merely express an opinion about something (e.g., "That movie was awesome."), that kind of behavior is best left to ESFps. Yet having no opinion whatsoever is just as bad (more INTp than INTj). The golden mean is to have reached a well-reasoned, impersonal conclusion about a topic that is interesting to other people.
    Would you mind expanding this section, because this would be quite interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    What an INTj shouldn't do also bears mentioning. There has to be some content to what an INTj is saying. INTjs should not merely express an opinion about something (e.g., "That movie was awesome."), that kind of behavior is best left to ESFps. Yet having no opinion whatsoever is just as bad (more INTp than INTj). The golden mean is to have reached a well-reasoned, impersonal conclusion about a topic that is interesting to other people.
    Would you mind expanding this section, because this would be quite interesting.
    The worst situation an INTj can be in socially is not having anything interesting to say on a subject. This isn't so bad when you're around extroverts, because they will fill in the gaps for you.

    Most introverts have a similar problem - not having any input to give. But in the INTj's case, it has to fulfill TiNe purposes. ESFs can get away with relying on personal presence, so the content of what they are saying doesn't matter so much. I sometimes catch myself (on the forum and IRL) simply giving agree/disagree responses, which benefit no one.

    UDP has mentioned the INTj's problem of being too neutral. My interpretation: I often feel like I have everything philosophically figured out (Ij?); the answers come so easily that I don't think to explain them to other people. So the stuff I find interesting is usually esoteric. I like this questioning strategy; it's a good way to circumvent both these problems (You rely on what others find interesting, rather than on your internal standard. This is why I enjoy teaching.). Though, again, it works best on extroverts, or introverts you know well.

    Also, use Ne humor to your advantage. It doesn't have to be mathematical, but make it weird enough to get people's (especially Si types') attention. This, unlike the other strategies, could have the downside of alienating Resolute types, however.

    All of this relates to Rick's article here:

    http://socionics.us/practice/ego.shtml

    Someone should write one of those for each type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpbailey
    To develop your own, get the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie and check out those other 'self-help/improvement' books at a bookstore or library.

    Or, if you are a sociopath and want to convince everyone otherwise, just pay careful attention to how other people react to environmental stimuli and emulate it. "A puppy was run over? Everyone looks sad. So, next time, I shall look sad!"


    Seriously, get the books and spend time with emotional people, and you'll get the hang of it. Emotional intelligence isn't really benchmarked or anything, so there's no real way to know when you've achieved your goal, so good luck with it.

    i attempt to do it by trying all three, although the first one is my least favourite. second one is my interim shortcut measure, but since it consists of memorising appropriate responses to different social situations, not ideal to me, unless i manage to work out some kind of rule of thumb after collecting enough appropriate-response examples. having a same gender dual best friend helps with the third - no romantic conflict, and if your particular ESFj is as intelligent in EI as INTjs usually are in IQ, he or she makes an excellent example to be around to learn from. third option was most useful for me, and to be credited the most in raising me from cluelessness to some kind of emotional literacy of other people.

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    Default Re: Any tips to increase the EI of an INTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by joseph2505
    I was wondering is there any suggestions / tips to increase the Emotional Intelligence specific to INTJ .
    There are numerous texts on this issue. I always found Covey's works useful, especially concepts like "The emotional bank account", and so on (check out "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People). Self-improvement literature & LIIs generally get along well.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    good point. however, i think, also dependent on the situation. i find that it is often more acceptable to get to 'why' by asking questions that don't exactly ask 'why'. because asking why repeatedly can annoy many people who have never bothered to work out why they do what they do or think what they think, nor are they interested to find out (ESFjs for example, don't bother to think of the why, but tend to be interested to go along and find out if you're asking). with such persons, your analytical questioning is seen as a threatening gesture, an attempt to undermine their position.

    if instead you ask more neutral questions like 'what do you do if this happens?' or 'how does that work in this instance?' or 'let me try and understand: it means in this situation you then would do this?' - it sort of draws the other person in of their own volition. i think it's mainly because you've helped him partway already, vs. a 'why do you think that?' kind of question. however, such rephrasing of questions took me a couple of years at least to practice, and require more patience.

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    Default Why LIIs have difficulty meeting people

    LIIs get confused about how to contact people. They consider both old and new means and can't tell which will be the most effective. This is a big issue with LII PoLR. It's not that LIIs don't want to meet people -- they just don't know HOW.

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    Indeed. LIIs are not sure of how people will respond to their attempts to communicate, and so have no way of knowing which communications strategy will be most effective. Without a strategy, they find themselve unable to take the initiative and act, leaving them friendless and alone. Unless they can find an extravert to help them integrate with society. Preferably an ESE.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    The alternative is to go ahead and act without a strategy anyway. It's called being ENTp and it only works 1/16 of the time.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    The alternative is to go ahead and act without a strategy anyway. It's called being ENTp and it only works 1/16 of the time.
    Haha, yes!

    I think this actually has more to do with Fi than Se. The LII is more aware than the ILE of the potential relationship-related consequences of social blunders, and is therefore more cautious. Conversely, the ILE is more effective at affecting the Fe mood of a social situation, and by using that can get away with more social blunders than an LII ever could.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Haha, yes!

    I think this actually has more to do with Fi than Se. The LII is more aware than the ILE of the potential relationship-related consequences of social blunders, and is therefore more cautious. Conversely, the ILE is more effective at affecting the Fe mood of a social situation, and by using that can get away with more social blunders than an LII ever could.
    Plus we just don't care about most social blunders.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    From personal experience, I find that I have two usual responses to initiating contact. I either am about to do it, and then shrink away when I doubt myself and try to consider my “worthiness” or closeness to the person in successfully communicating with them, or I kinda rush in with no plan and then feel awkward and embarrassed afterward.

    I definitely think this is tied to Fi. I know myself that when I want to approach someone or (re-)start a conversation, I often try to “read” whether or not I have the right standing with the person to do so. Sometimes I think I’m too harsh with myself in this area, but I find being completely natural in social situations is very hard and kinda confusing.
    IJ temperament
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    Enneagram: 5(w4?)

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