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Thread: Questions About ILEs

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Questions About ILEs

    I've a few questions for ILEs and those who know any or a fair bit about them.

    To what extent are you/they concerned with aesthetics (or are aesthetic)?

    Also, to what extent are you/they organised in all senses of the word?

    And lastly, in your experience, have you/they always shied away from combat or tried to avoid serious or mood-spoiling topics/moments?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    IME they don't care much about how their WORK areas look, or pretty much anywhere they live, but with the products they make they can be concerned with aesthetics (as long as it doesn't subtract significantly from what it needs to do). They're basically attracted to anything they consider "cool," and that includes interesting form as well as interesting function.

    But yeah, they're not very organized at all. My friend keeps resistors in a shelved container, but that's about the extent of his organization. He keeps handy objects hanging from above his desk. He can USUALLY find stuff with a little effort, but occasionally it takes a while.

    Combat-wise, I've never seen him actually fight someone irl. He does study martial arts, but more for the philosophy and the experience than anything else I think. He could probably defend himself reasonably well, but I really can't see him attacking someone for any reason. Verbally, yes, he'll attack people, but even then it's only when he deems it necessary (he disagrees and can't tolerate the stupidity of the other position), which is not very frequently. Every now and then. Much less than Gilly, say. Or maybe he WOULD argue more often, except I'm not very argumentative, so I don't notice it. I think he does try to avoid serious/mood-spoiling moments; when they come up, he'll go along with it for a little while but then there will be an awkward pause and he'll make a silly noise or otherwise change the subject. He's usually really upbeat and funny, though, so that doesn't happen often.
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    Creepy-Diana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    IME, the ones I've known have loved to argue. They look for things to discuss, playing devil's advocate, drawing people in. Can be very witty.

    They don't seem to be concerned with aesthetics at all, ime, and can be very very disorganized. The most disorganized person I've ever known was ENTp. Papers everywhere, and pieces of wires, computer parts, electronics taken apart, a bunch of stuff all in the process of being done at once. Was late often. Was expert at getting extensions for things.

    Seem to get a kick out of riling people up, so don't mind spoiling moods really. Done for their own amusement more than anything.
    whugg. i agree that they are experts at getting extensions for things. very frustrating when you're working hard to meet a professor's deadline, cranking out papers and busting your ass. then some idiot comes along and lies about things and gets it done 2 weeks later, does half the work you do, and does a sloppy job at it, yet still passes the course.

    @ezra - generally very weak aesthetics. i think this trait is pretty generalized among a lot of NT types, especially the extroverted ones. generally i don't think i've known an ENTp who isn't in "comfortable" looking clothing (-ish.) granted, ISTps do this as well but it's a little different. and regarding combat, i think ENFps could honestly be much feistier & aggressive if the situation called for it.

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    Default Re: Questions About ILEs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    To what extent are you/they concerned with aesthetics (or are aesthetic)?
    depends. i consider myself to be concerned with aesthetics, but only to the extent that i want my living space and clothing style to reflect my own personality. for the longest time i never concerned myself with the subject at all; i would leave anything anywhere at any time and rarely would care about it. after a while, though, i thought it would be a fun game to consciously make my living space look scattered and messy, but try to do it in an attractive manner.

    also, my dad's best friend (a fellow ILE) always wears mis-matched clothing and keeps his house a complete mess, but it was because he did this naturally his whole life and ended up making it an advocation.

    in a nutshell: it's not that big of a concern for me/us, haha

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Also, to what extent are you/they organised in all senses of the word?
    to me, organization is practically useless since i can usually remember where i put something, and if i don't i can usually compensate for the lack of said object using ingenuity (which is extremely fun )

    unfortunately this adds considerably to the level of disorder in my personal living space, and for some people (specifically my SLE roommate :<) it can be very bothersome. example:

    roommate: where the hell is the mail?
    me: it's on top of the tv.
    roommate: why did you put it there? you're supposed to put the mail on the kitchen counter.
    me: i would have done that, but that's where i put all those unused newspapers my mom gave me. they were really ugly -- didn't look good anywhere else.
    roommate: THERE'S LIKE 80 OF THOSE DAMN NEWSPAPERS! WHY DIDN'T YOU THROW THEM AWAY?
    me: i keep forgetting to. first of all, they fit in perfectly with our nasty ass kitchen. second, i got way too distracted by this dude on tv. LOOK AT HIS HAIR you see? this guy's way more important than all the visitors we never have who, if they were to visit, would be positively influenced by a potential papier-mâché project.
    roommate: ugh. do you not even have the decency to put the mail on top of your pile of crap?
    me: i do, but the mail sort of blends in with the newspapers, see? i put it in a striking location, i.e. your black tv, so that you wouldn't have to spend the time looking for it. i was being nice :< jerk.
    roommate: i hate you. throw away those damn newspapers.
    me: fine D: see if i call you next time there's a guy with hair on tv.

    in a nutshell: we're not. ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    And lastly, in your experience, have you/they always shied away from combat or tried to avoid serious or mood-spoiling topics/moments?
    i don't know about anybody else, but i do know that i hate physical fights, and i also hate it when everybody's having a good time and then one person screws it up for everybody. the point of a groove is to not throw it off, duh.
    entp-ti 6w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    whugg. i agree that they are experts at getting extensions for things. very frustrating when you're working hard to meet a professor's deadline, cranking out papers and busting your ass. then some idiot comes along and lies about things and gets it done 2 weeks later, does half the work you do, and does a sloppy job at it, yet still passes the course.
    pfffffff

    what's the point of busting your ass when it's obvious that you don't have to? i say it's your fault for wasting all that energy on time that could have been better spent sleeping.
    entp-ti 6w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooveefone
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    whugg. i agree that they are experts at getting extensions for things. very frustrating when you're working hard to meet a professor's deadline, cranking out papers and busting your ass. then some idiot comes along and lies about things and gets it done 2 weeks later, does half the work you do, and does a sloppy job at it, yet still passes the course.
    pfffffff

    what's the point of busting your ass when it's obvious that you don't have to? i say it's your fault for wasting all that energy on time that could have been better spent sleeping.
    spend your time as you wish! it actually equalled out okay in the end because he just barely passed the class with a c- when he could have gotten an a had he planned/bothered with homework. hard to call him an idiot, easy to call him a dick!

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    Creepy-Diana

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    So I assume most ENTps are 7w6s (Most 7w8s would be ESTps and ESFps)? Perhaps 3s.

    6s are more likely to be ENTj I think, although I suppose perhaps there are ENTp 6s.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    I enjoy aesthetics quite a lot. It's just that those aesthetics exist in my head, and are more related to atmosphere, mood, etc., than my external environment.

    Organized? Hah.

    I always shy away from combat, and I don't like conflict. Unless I win, of course.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    6s are more likely to be ENTj I think
    Bah, I don't understand where you got this from.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ENTps are dangerous! I don't know if I mistype them but they seem very confrontational and even scary to an extent. Ok I'm exaggerating a bit but the point is they don't seem to shy away from "spontaneous" confrontation at all. And it seems it is very hard if not impossible to make them back down by making threats or ultimatums. They will rip your eyes out if you try that (heh). However they have problems focusing on a goal for a long time (like...more than one day), problems to stay "determined" for a long time and if under consistent Se pressure (day to day) they eventually run away instead of keep resisting. But they are "spontaneously" confrontational and can hold their own well. So my suggestion of how to "win" an ENTp is not to challenge them head on with full power but instead gradually and slowly increase pressure on them, stay determined, and not let it go until they decide they can't live with it anymore. But you have to be really careful if you are pushing them I suggest being on good terms instead.

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    I care about aesthetics, but never enough to make it a priority. But i'm an artist, so...that may have something to do with it.

    An ILE's approach to aesthetics is almost always this: "this house could be beautiful; this project could be designed to make it look good; etc." Like with anything else, the ILE is concerned far more with the "could" element than anything else.

    JRiddy
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