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Thread: Advice for ESE-SLI supervision relationship (ESFj & ISTp)

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    Default Advice for ESE-SLI supervision relationship (ESFj & ISTp)

    I met an ESFj recently, and we're in the early stages of an intimate relationship (yay ).

    I know that we are supervisory relations, which supposedly aren't good for close relationships, but I find him really attractive and want to give it a go.

    He is a little apprehensive about getting physical because of past experiences (and I am too a little), any ideas on how to help that?.......give him a lot of afformation maybe?

    Any tips on how to get along with an ESFj's generally?

    And do you people like physical touch generally, being Si I really like physical touch, holding hands, cuddling etc, do you people like a lot of that stuff too?
    Friendly ISTp
    Interested in everything, yes, EVERYTHING
    Flower's motto: Life's too short even to do the things you want to, let alone the things you dont!!

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    RUN!!!!!

    Haha, On a serious note, expect a nice smooth ride for about 6 months or so, then the need for these increases from him:

    -Reassurance
    -Lots of "I love you's" throughout the day
    -Expect them to completely not understand that you need lots of 'alone time'
    -not very adventurous in certain cases.


    Amogst other shit I can't remember. I know my experiences can't and probably won't match up with yours too well, but as an ISTp male who has a ENFj girlfriend, I can tell you this: There's a reason why it's called 'conflicting'




    Oh, and the sex is awesome.

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    My ESE cousin recently divorced her SLI husband. They always had problems, and she would complain that he is selfish. He spent all of the extra money that the family (two kids too) would earn on himself. His lack of responsibility irritated her, and always having late notices on bills caused much tension.

    She nagged him a lot though, and he eventually admitted to having an affair when she found condoms in one of his back packs.

    Edit: I love Si stuff. Lots of constant cuddles, holding hands, sex 3 times a day. Can't get enoough...
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    You will have conflicts.

    She sees it as her duty to use Si creatively, but you take Si as "who you are".

    Be careful. You are both caregivers too, so one of you will have to adjust to accepting the others Si, which may be difficult.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Thanks people,

    That is what I kinda expected, I think we will be ok with the Si stuff, coz im pretty adaptable if I need to be. I think the problem is going to be with the Fe side of things, being my polr

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard
    -Reassurance
    -Lots of "I love you's" throughout the day
    -Expect them to completely not understand that you need lots of 'alone time'
    this stuff is going to be real tough for me, he already talks and talks and talks and talks, which is great, I like it coz im always a little cautious about initiating conversation about certain things with people, so with him I dont have to, but after a little while I can see that its going to get annoying lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
    Edit: I love Si stuff. Lots of constant cuddles, holding hands, sex 3 times a day. Can't get enoough...
    thought it would be true, glad that your backing it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    She sees it as her duty to use Si creatively, but you take Si as "who you are".
    Do you have any examples of that, are you saying he wants practical use out of Si, whereas im not looking for any return from it, because its just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Be careful. You are both caregivers too, so one of you will have to adjust to accepting the others Si, which may be difficult.
    So one person basically has the default role of being cared for, and the other giving that care, and that has to be a consistent dynamic?


    One more thing...for ESE's, their dual seeking function is Ti, would this mean they appreciate people giving them logical explainations of how things work or why things are like they are? I know how good it feels when my dual seeking funtion is being fed, and I think I can feed him with Ti very well, if thats indeed how to do it.
    Friendly ISTp
    Interested in everything, yes, EVERYTHING
    Flower's motto: Life's too short even to do the things you want to, let alone the things you dont!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by flower
    One more thing...for ESE's, their dual seeking function is Ti, would this mean they appreciate people giving them logical explainations of how things work or why things are like they are? I know how good it feels when my dual seeking funtion is being fed, and I think I can feed him with Ti very well, if thats indeed how to do it.
    It means that when they explain in detail some interaction they've had with someone, they expect you to briefly comment - as in "yes, that sounds right" and "no, I think she was wrong" and to give clear-cut answers to their questions - not offer them information so they can make their decisions, they want a clear-cut decision or opinion. If they ask, "what do you think, shall we go for lunch now", say "yes" or "no", but not, "I don't know, we could go now or later, I'm ok either way".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by flower
    One more thing...for ESE's, their dual seeking function is Ti, would this mean they appreciate people giving them logical explainations of how things work or why things are like they are? I know how good it feels when my dual seeking funtion is being fed, and I think I can feed him with Ti very well, if thats indeed how to do it.
    It means that when they explain in detail some interaction they've had with someone, they expect you to briefly comment - as in "yes, that sounds right" and "no, I think she was wrong" and to give clear-cut answers to their questions - not offer them information so they can make their decisions, they want a clear-cut decision or opinion. If they ask, "what do you think, shall we go for lunch now", say "yes" or "no", but not, "I don't know, we could go now or later, I'm ok either way".
    Ah i see. I thought I had the wrong idea, i cant see that he would be interested in me explaining some logical thing in physics or something lol. Its Fe orientated........they want a clear cut answers and statements to questions, opinions or something they have brought up, and if required the ability to explain logically why you say that.
    Friendly ISTp
    Interested in everything, yes, EVERYTHING
    Flower's motto: Life's too short even to do the things you want to, let alone the things you dont!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by flower
    One more thing...for ESE's, their dual seeking function is Ti, would this mean they appreciate people giving them logical explainations of how things work or why things are like they are? I know how good it feels when my dual seeking funtion is being fed, and I think I can feed him with Ti very well, if thats indeed how to do it.
    It means that when they explain in detail some interaction they've had with someone, they expect you to briefly comment - as in "yes, that sounds right" and "no, I think she was wrong" and to give clear-cut answers to their questions - not offer them information so they can make their decisions, they want a clear-cut decision or opinion. If they ask, "what do you think, shall we go for lunch now", say "yes" or "no", but not, "I don't know, we could go now or later, I'm ok either way".
    this causes a lot of conflict between my mother and me, honestly. i think i'm trying to be adaptable and flexible by giving her the control over what she does with her day. she responds by trying to be flexible and adaptable. as a result, no decision on lunch ever gets made. basically just becoming good at making decisions, regardless of if they're good ones or not, seems to be necessary.
    6w5 sx
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    That's kind of interesting. Te and Fe both being about adjusting to others.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by flower
    One more thing...for ESE's, their dual seeking function is Ti, would this mean they appreciate people giving them logical explainations of how things work or why things are like they are? I know how good it feels when my dual seeking funtion is being fed, and I think I can feed him with Ti very well, if thats indeed how to do it.
    It means that when they explain in detail some interaction they've had with someone, they expect you to briefly comment - as in "yes, that sounds right" and "no, I think she was wrong" and to give clear-cut answers to their questions - not offer them information so they can make their decisions, they want a clear-cut decision or opinion. If they ask, "what do you think, shall we go for lunch now", say "yes" or "no", but not, "I don't know, we could go now or later, I'm ok either way".
    Question on bolded - wouldn't anyone prefer a direct response to that question, rather than a "I don't know, blah blah"?
    In my opinion it usually works this way in couples:

    A says: shall we go to lunch
    B says: what do you prefer
    A says: it's the same
    B says: so let's choose X
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Despite whatever your closed-minded view of how other people function might suggest, some people actually like flexibility.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Question on bolded - wouldn't anyone prefer a direct response to that question, rather than a "I don't know, blah blah"?

    If I'm asking, "What do you think, shall we go for lunch now" I pretty much expect "Sure, let's go" or "Not yet, because. . ." because I wouldn't bring it up if I didn't want to go eat. A wishy-washy answer just would annoy me.
    My example was a very bad one. "Going to eat" is not a good example, an opinion on something would be better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Despite whatever your closed-minded view of how other people function might suggest, some people actually like flexibility.
    Then perhaps you can suggest an example to the question?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Well I'm married to an ESFj (13 years) and things are pretty good. He has learned that I need alone time and he's okay with that. He didn't understand it at first but now he gets that about me. He DOES like lots of 'I love yous' which I don't need. I find it too much. He's generally too talkative but he works a lot so when he IS home, I enjoy talking to him. If we were home together all day every day it would drive me crazy. I like being flexible, he likes being definite. But we know that about each other so we work with it. It's not a big deal.

    (and yes, the sex is great. Although sometimes he talks during and I have to say shhhhh....)
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Well, I was thinking of essentially what Fabie posted.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    It means that when they explain in detail some interaction they've had with someone, they expect you to briefly comment - as in "yes, that sounds right" and "no, I think she was wrong" and to give clear-cut answers to their questions - not offer them information so they can make their decisions, they want a clear-cut decision or opinion. If they ask, "what do you think, shall we go for lunch now", say "yes" or "no", but not, "I don't know, we could go now or later, I'm ok either way".
    Wow. I didn't stop and think that there are (other) people who really appreciate these kinds of answers. I've always worried that I sound too abrupt or controlling saying just 'yes' or 'no' (even though it's what I want to say). You just helped the idea of my dual become a little more exciting and real .
    Sometimes it bothers me when Fe types do this, if they just cut you off after the "yes" or "no". It's like they don't want to hear the reasoning behind the answer. But IME it's usually ENFj and ISFp that do this; INFps almost never do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    It means that when they explain in detail some interaction they've had with someone, they expect you to briefly comment - as in "yes, that sounds right" and "no, I think she was wrong" and to give clear-cut answers to their questions - not offer them information so they can make their decisions, they want a clear-cut decision or opinion. If they ask, "what do you think, shall we go for lunch now", say "yes" or "no", but not, "I don't know, we could go now or later, I'm ok either way".
    Wow. I didn't stop and think that there are (other) people who really appreciate these kinds of answers. I've always worried that I sound too abrupt or controlling saying just 'yes' or 'no' (even though it's what I want to say). You just helped the idea of my dual become a little more exciting and real .
    Sometimes it bothers me when Fe types do this, if they just cut you off after the "yes" or "no". It's like they don't want to hear the reasoning behind the answer. But IME it's usually ENFj and ISFp that do this; INFps almost never do.
    But most ESFjs seem to be able to read your body language and tell if you are going to say more, so they will usually wait before resuming their talking.
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    havent had prolonged contact with ESFjs of any kind, but I have been amazed at their ability to read my body language. I always feel relief when this happens. A friend of a friend is ESFj and I am amazed to this day the way he could tell what I needed while eating out with him one night. Come to think of it, I have felt grateful that I don't have to say more about my needs and don't mind if they keep talking. I remember saying less than usual.

    Besides, if I do feel that they are dominating the.. conversational space, I don't always pay attention to everything they are saying so.. I guess we're even.

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    I've always felt that I could read people's body language rather well. what's funny though, is now I see the other side of the coin by living with my identical. I've found that both of us can always tell if the other has something on their mind. Even better, is that we always have very well flowing conversations whenever we are chatting it up, more so than I've had with most people at least.

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    Do keep in mind we're emotion-creating and taciturns... "Yes" and "no", despite being true to Ti's concise nature are not typical INTj responses. More like "Well, what time is it? 12 o' clock? Need to drop by the office at 1:15 so I've got time now. Shall we go?" Decisive but open, and presented in question form: emotion-creating taciturn.

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    yay, were getting closer, and its true, he is very touchy. as in likes to hold hands and cuddle I read somewhere ESFj's also like it when you show your affection for each other in public.

    Only problem I can see at the moment is if he text messages me and I dont reply fairly quickly, he starts saying, 'arent you talking to me anymore' and stuff like that, thats gunna get annoying after a while

    Hmm, I read that ESFj's are often quite sex hungry, and are a bit wild in that area, but he is very slow going and shy because of past relationships, think he is so image concious he's a bit apprehensive to let himself go, and has some hang ups about sex. Can this happen to ESFj's sometimes? It a bit off putting to be honest.
    Friendly ISTp
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    Flower's motto: Life's too short even to do the things you want to, let alone the things you dont!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by flower
    yay, were getting closer, and its true, he is very touchy. as in likes to hold hands and cuddle I read somewhere ESFj's also like it when you show your affection for each other in public.
    hmm, I don't really like the public displays of affection like full on making out etc. If i think it's not too inappropriate though, i'm down for the occasional arm around the back while walking or the occasional hug in the presence of others. Though, A lot of that depends on the other person also.
    I think it's more like, ESFJ's like it when you show affection for eachother... whether public or private.


    Quote Originally Posted by flower
    Only problem I can see at the moment is if he text messages me and I dont reply fairly quickly, he starts saying, 'arent you talking to me anymore' and stuff like that, thats gunna get annoying after a while
    I can say i've been guilty of that also but once you establish that relationship and they know they can trust you in every way, it'll go away. (hopefully) :wink:
    If you're serious about him and he knows it, he'll have no reason to keep that up and he won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by flower
    Hmm, I read that ESFj's are often quite sex hungry, and are a bit wild in that area, but he is very slow going and shy because of past relationships, think he is so image concious he's a bit apprehensive to let himself go, and has some hang ups about sex. Can this happen to ESFj's sometimes? It a bit off putting to be honest.
    i'll just agree on the first part...lol
    On the second part, about the hangups... once he's comfortable with you and looses the insecurity he seems to have... you'll most likely be pretty darn happy with him...lol.

    just my $.03

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    Thanks cracka, encouraging stuff!! Im quickly learning a lot about this type now, its funny how the relationship to me is supervision (typically not psychologically close), yet ESFj's have so many qualitites that are compatible and complimentary to my type. Ok, i know its mbti, but kiersay's profile actually says ESFj and ISTp are a very good match, the ESFj giving the enthusiasm and anchorage for the ISTp who provides the ESFj with the constant feeling of being needed and appreciated. Socionics intertype relations have often had an air of truth to them in my experience tho, and I will find out in due course how things go and are likely to continue.
    Friendly ISTp
    Interested in everything, yes, EVERYTHING
    Flower's motto: Life's too short even to do the things you want to, let alone the things you dont!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Do keep in mind we're emotion-creating and taciturns... "Yes" and "no", despite being true to Ti's concise nature are not typical INTj responses. More like "Well, what time is it? 12 o' clock? Need to drop by the office at 1:15 so I've got time now. Shall we go?" Decisive but open, and presented in question form: emotion-creating taciturn.
    You have the same habit as tc of arbitrarily attributing things to dichotomies that they have nothing to do with.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Interrogative (N:1,2 S:3,4):
    1.Tend to use interrogative intonations – much of what they say sounds like a question.
    2.Inclined to repeat a question asked of fthem, or to voice other questions (eg, “Where should I start?”) before answering. These questions are not truly asked of anyone, just voiced, and often used to help the 'flow' of a conversation.
    3.Prefer speaking in 'question and answer' dialogues, and may actively (though perhaps not consciously) work to turn the conversation to this form. They may have a real or imaginary interlocutor with whom they carry out this dialogue.
    4.When interrupted with a question while speaking, will answer immediately and then return to where they left off, and often feel compelled to interrupt in such a manner.
    5.(when asked a question) “Is there more than one way to do that? Of course. But what is the best way? Well, [...]”
    Declarative (N:3,4 S:1,2):
    1.Inclined to speak in a declarative manner – even their questions may sound like statements.
    2.Usually use questions solely for the purpose of receiving an answer.
    3.Prefer speaking in 'alternating monologues', wherein each speaker takes turns speaking, and may attempt (though perhaps not consciously) to convert the conversation to this form.
    4.When interrupted with a question while speaking, they ask the questioner wait until they are finished speaking. They may also ask the questioner to 'be patient', and subsequently work the answer to the question into their speech. Accordingly, they prefer to wait until the speaker has finished before asking questions.
    5.“On my way to St Ives, I met a man with seven wives. These seven wives had seven sacks, and the seven sacks held seven cats, and these seven cats had seven kits. Kits, cats, sacks, wives – How many were going to St Ives?”
    "Taciturns ask questions" is standard, acknowledged socionics material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dichotomic descriptions V2.0
    It focuses on finding new things, the need to learn, creating an accepting environment, working without preconceptions, checking things out by itself, giving its attention freely, openness.
    Emotion creating is slightly less often used, but one that I have recently learned to detect. The descriptions are quite explicit about it being a function of openness and capability to listen, and to learn the other person's viewpoint. Also to expect others to do the same and to speak accordingly.

    INTj statements are emotion-creating. We don't force opinions down others' throats like the INTp's do, we make suggestions that others can then choose to consider. Even if sometimes it may sound otherwise.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I thought you might find this fun...

    Jesus, the more you get your ass nailed, the deeper you dig yourself into this web of inconsistencies and incoherencies. Just stop embaressing yourself; Expat is going to continue nailing your ass to the wall, and if he gets tired, I'm going to pick up the slack. Or Fabie.
    A post of yours. The exact opposite of what emotion-creating stands for, despite that the name might superficially indicate otherwise. Construct creating is very, very serious about it's opinions, and wants it's listener to take them as seriously as it does. It's a fighting function that stands up for itself.

    Emotion-creating is everything that this is not.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I'm well aware of what being Taciturn implies, thank you very much.

    Being open-minded and not "shoving things down people's throats" is not what the Contructivist/Emotivist dichotomy is about. Quit acting like a fool.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    What it is about, is that no emotion creating type will ever tell you things like these:

    Quit acting like a fool.
    Jesus, the more you get your ass nailed, the deeper you dig yourself into this web of inconsistencies and incoherencies. Just stop embaressing yourself; Expat is going to continue nailing your ass to the wall, and if he gets tired, I'm going to pick up the slack. Or Fabie.
    Unless it was purposely trying to act like something it was not.

    It tries to convince, not dictate.

  29. #29
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    ...Do you know why I'm going to law school? Because I'm fucking brilliant at persuading people. And do you know how far I would get in a court room, or with any decent teacher, if my method of persuasion involved forcing my opinion on them or tried to "dictate" what they should believe? Sorry, but your petty ideas about what makes a "type" polite do not in any way apply to even one of the Reinin dichotomies or any other aspect of the theory of Socionics.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Type is significant, but unconscious rapport is vital.

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    ...Do you know why I'm going to law school? Because I'm fucking brilliant at persuading people. And do you know how far I would get in a court room, or with any decent teacher, if my method of persuasion involved forcing my opinion on them or tried to "dictate" what they should believe? Sorry, but your petty ideas about what makes a "type" polite do not in any way apply to even one of the Reinin dichotomies or any other aspect of the theory of Socionics.
    You're demonstrating quite the opposite skill on this forum. You're obviously not being objective. Case closed.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    ...Do you know why I'm going to law school? Because I'm fucking brilliant at persuading people. And do you know how far I would get in a court room, or with any decent teacher, if my method of persuasion involved forcing my opinion on them or tried to "dictate" what they should believe? Sorry, but your petty ideas about what makes a "type" polite do not in any way apply to even one of the Reinin dichotomies or any other aspect of the theory of Socionics.
    You're demonstrating quite the opposite skill on this forum. You're obviously not being objective. Case closed.
    LOL

    Argue with me, you little bitch. Show me how being flexible is related to type. I know I'm being an asshole, and I know you think I'm "proving" your point with my behavior, but you're being a stupid little shit who refuses to understand the goddamn theory and tries to just throw terms around to look like he knows what he's talking about, and THAT is pissing me off, and THAT is why I'm being a pushy asshole. Now answer the fucking question: how is being flexible related to the Constructivist/Emotivist dichotomy?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  33. #33
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    but you're being a stupid little shit who refuses to understand the goddamn theory and tries to just throw terms around to look like he knows what he's talking about, and THAT is pissing me off, and THAT is why I'm being a pushy asshole.
    You're not the authority on who understands this theory and who doesn't.

    Show me how being flexible is related to type.
    It's all in the descriptions, really. I don't see why you need to get so worked up about what I say. None of it is at all outrageous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dichotomic Descriptions V2.0
    Emotion-creating function:
    It focuses on finding new things, the need to learn, creating an accepting environment, working without preconceptions, checking things out by itself, giving its attention freely, openness. By it's action it changes the 'strategic' into the 'tactical'. It's as if it was looking for a path somewhere. The 'emotion-creating' functions are supported by the 'creation-creating' functions in that they offers ready-made solutions and models that the 'emotion-creating' can try out and in response it is willing to pay them what they ask for the service. Can become disarmed when taken seriously and asked for advice on issues it has yet to analyze.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dichotomic Descriptions V2.0
    Construct-creating function:
    It focuses on what it already knows, is accustomed to, loves, feels bound by, being busy with little time for new things. It only accepts input that is in a familiar form. By its actions it changes the 'tactical' into the 'strategic'. It wears out ideas till they break and till he finally he gets tired of them. It is as if it was working towards a finish line. It takes routine to its natural conclusion. It can become unsettled and disarmed when forced to face something new, powerful and surprising.
    Besides, whatever theory you're going to be studying up on is going to have people that occasionally test interpretations and explanations that are different from those of the main stream. If you have trouble dealing with that, maybe you should just drop the studying altogether. It sure as hell isn't going to change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Type is significant, but unconscious rapport is vital.
    This is good, I definately agree, im not sure to what extent though.

    What do you think is responsible for unconscious rapport?

    Total time spent together?
    Number of topics discussed?
    Depth of discussion on a particular topic?
    Amount of personal information shared?
    Number of experiences together?
    Having lots of common philosohy about life?

    What could you do to increase your level of unconscious rapport with someone?

    Is this related to energy based vs information based socionics intertype relations? Energy based being psychologically closer and hence a greater degree of unconscious rapport? or is that something else entirely? eg, is that just related to the style of communication?
    Friendly ISTp
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    Flower's motto: Life's too short even to do the things you want to, let alone the things you dont!!

  35. #35
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    but you're being a stupid little shit who refuses to understand the goddamn theory and tries to just throw terms around to look like he knows what he's talking about, and THAT is pissing me off, and THAT is why I'm being a pushy asshole.
    You're not the authority on who understands this theory and who doesn't.

    Show me how being flexible is related to type.
    It's all in the descriptions, really. I don't see why you need to get so worked up about what I say. None of it is at all outrageous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dichotomic Descriptions V2.0
    Emotion-creating function:
    It focuses on finding new things, the need to learn, creating an accepting environment, working without preconceptions, checking things out by itself, giving its attention freely, openness. By it's action it changes the 'strategic' into the 'tactical'. It's as if it was looking for a path somewhere. The 'emotion-creating' functions are supported by the 'creation-creating' functions in that they offers ready-made solutions and models that the 'emotion-creating' can try out and in response it is willing to pay them what they ask for the service. Can become disarmed when taken seriously and asked for advice on issues it has yet to analyze.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dichotomic Descriptions V2.0
    Construct-creating function:
    It focuses on what it already knows, is accustomed to, loves, feels bound by, being busy with little time for new things. It only accepts input that is in a familiar form. By its actions it changes the 'tactical' into the 'strategic'. It wears out ideas till they break and till he finally he gets tired of them. It is as if it was working towards a finish line. It takes routine to its natural conclusion. It can become unsettled and disarmed when forced to face something new, powerful and surprising.
    Besides, whatever theory you're going to be studying up on is going to have people that occasionally test interpretations and explanations that are different from those of the main stream. If you have trouble dealing with that, maybe you should just drop the studying altogether. It sure as hell isn't going to change.
    I never said I was the authority on anything, but I can tell you that being open and forthright about one's plans has fuck-all to do with being Emotivist. Constructivists don't just tell people what to do and believe. That's all I'm saying. Now cut the bullshit.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  36. #36
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    Those Smilexian definitions of emotion-creating and construct-creating are not the same as the original Reinin/Augusta definitions; they are based on mathematico-mechanical socionics:

    Construct-creating equals I define object-of-thought in a clearly defined way or non-clearly defined action of object of thought defines me.
    Emotion-creating equals clearly-defined action of object-of-thought defines me or I define object-of-thought in a non-clearly defined way.
    Those definitions - also those quoted by labcoat - are related to an interpretation of the influence of Te, Fe, Ti, Fi.

    The original definitions - by Reinin/Augusta - are also ultimately explained by those, but they refer to very precise patterns of behavior of people interacting with each other "live" - which is not what Smilexian definitions mean.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  37. #37

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    Aww, relationship with ESFj didnt work out

    He was too different I think, we got on ok but not in a fun jokey way but in a more formal way. I looked forward to seeing him but when we were together it seemed a little like we didnt have that much in common, or common interests, and even after meeting several times it seemed like the interactions were a little forced, him telling me about all about his everyday stuff all the time with me not really that interested, and him taking little interest in anything I do or find interesting.

    The intertype relation to me is supervision which is 'information based' as opposed to 'energy based', im guessing this is what this is refering to, the interaction being mostly the exchange of factual information, rather than a kinda fun jokey energy style of interaction, that gives deeper rapport and a closer connection.
    Friendly ISTp
    Interested in everything, yes, EVERYTHING
    Flower's motto: Life's too short even to do the things you want to, let alone the things you dont!!

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