View Poll Results: Fiona Apple's type?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    0 0%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    0 0%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • IEI (INFp)

    12 70.59%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    0 0%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    0 0%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    0 0%
  • ILI (INTp)

    6 35.29%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    0 0%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    1 5.88%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    0 0%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    0 0%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

    0 0%
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Thread: Fiona Apple

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    Default Fiona Apple

    Type?














    Last edited by silke; 12-07-2014 at 02:13 AM. Reason: updated links
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

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    eww

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    WHAT? Fiona Apple is HOT!
    ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
    In touch with semireality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeonMonk
    WHAT? Fiona Apple is HOT!
    Yeah, I guess. I just find her to be disgusting.

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    I'm gonna disagree and say Ethical-sensory Extratim.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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    EIE? I disagree, I think she's HOT.

    Heheh.
    ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
    In touch with semireality.

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    But her eyes remind me of an ISFJ. =/
    ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
    In touch with semireality.

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    You dare challenge my VI.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NFp-
    You want us to say "INTj", XcaliburGirl. So I'll go ahead and say it: She's INTj.
    Not necessarily. She doesn't seem INTj to me, but I'm sometimes bad at typing identicals. Rocky, I really don't think she's an ESE either. I like her stuff when I'm feeling moody.

    Strangely enough, Implied's posts remind me of Fiona Apple...don't know why. Maybe they're the same type. Hmm...
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

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    Esfj. Listen to her song "Criminal" and compare it to Britney Spears' "Oops I Did it Again" - the two songs are about the same thing, but from a very different psychological perspective.

    I love Fiona Apple. I love that song Criminal, too.
    Entp
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    ah i had thought she was SLI.

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    i remember xcaliburgirl (i think) thinking we were similar or something. i doubt we're the same type though, at least not without reading/knowing much about her.
    Last edited by implied; 04-14-2008 at 10:57 AM.
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    I really love her music.

    ILI seems right, and I can see a resemblance implied.

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    IEI

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    Same, ILI was always what came to mind. Oh and I love her music.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

    ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
    The Ineffable IEI
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    Some Beta introvert, probably INFp.

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    IEI

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    She's IEI, of this I am absolutely certain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Ni-INFp seems pretty apparent to me as her type; I'm curious why some people would assume she's INTp.
    Apparently IEI-Ni are mistaken for ILI quite commonly:
    Fiona Apple Quotes

    My guess is either a lack of looking into her and giving a quick typing, or misunderstanding how Fe works, or how it works in the creative position.

    As soon as you open up that quote page, a list of related authors include 3 confirmed INFps - Tupac, Eminem, and Kurt Cobain, with Michael Jackson, Jim Morrison, and Jimi Hendrix as other possible INFps although I don't know nearly enough about the last ones mentioned to make any type of distinction. There may even be others but I'm not aware of them(Bob Dylan?).

    Anywho, the correlation to INFp musicians is overwhelming - if you take the body of her quotes as a whole, you get a clear image of an enneagram 4.

    I don't see any Te focus whatsoever, if anything I see weak Te, however her focus on people, her insecurities, her emotions, and relationships is apparent. She has had emotional displays - meltdowns on stage, an impromptu emotional speech which led to media backlash - long periods of procrastination where she has done nothing, an all or nothing mentality, an intensity in emotions , and given advice and quotes which blatently contradict Fe PoLR and Te creative.

    She has an apparent focus on authenticity that screams beta and isn't indicative of gamma - in the sense that she emphasizes the importance of authenticity in self expression(go with yourself impromptu speech - which she did to the alienation of the media industry and possible supporters Fe>Fi ) over the 'moral stiffness' of gamma and Fi - in where a certain kind of censorship is emphasized for relational harmony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Ni-INFp seems pretty apparent to me as her type; I'm curious why some people would assume she's INTp. Though it would be an obvious sham for me to assert anything, since I don't actually have real opinions of my own and only loyally parrot whatever Galen says. Just another one of his typically blind, hapless followers who can't think for themselves because they're brainwashed under the spell of his charismatic fanaticism and demagoguery.
    Well that's convenient, because I only conform my beliefs about socionics to what you say about it. This is what makes our relationship work so well, we're like a binary star system orbiting each other and feeding off of each other's socionics knowledge until we eventually collapse in on one another in a glorious Socionics cataclysm. The two satellites being rendered inseparable, we will then be known as Ashlen.

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    fiona apple is the shit. total IEI.

    in the MTV interview she comes across as a dynamic ethical introvert, unvalued Fi. ergo, IEI.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    She's IEI, of this I am absolutely certain.



    Apparently IEI-Ni are mistaken for ILI quite commonly:
    Fiona Apple Quotes

    My guess is either a lack of looking into her and giving a quick typing, or misunderstanding how Fe works, or how it works in the creative position.

    As soon as you open up that quote page, a list of related authors include 3 confirmed INFps - Tupac, Eminem, and Kurt Cobain, with Michael Jackson, Jim Morrison, and Jimi Hendrix as other possible INFps although I don't know nearly enough about the last ones mentioned to make any type of distinction. There may even be others but I'm not aware of them(Bob Dylan?).

    Anywho, the correlation to INFp musicians is overwhelming - if you take the body of her quotes as a whole, you get a clear image of an enneagram 4.

    I don't see any Te focus whatsoever, if anything I see weak Te, however her focus on people, her insecurities, her emotions, and relationships is apparent. She has had emotional displays - meltdowns on stage, an impromptu emotional speech which led to media backlash - long periods of procrastination where she has done nothing, an all or nothing mentality, an intensity in emotions , and given advice and quotes which blatently contradict Fe PoLR and Te creative.

    She has an apparent focus on authenticity that screams beta and isn't indicative of gamma - in the sense that she emphasizes the importance of authenticity in self expression(go with yourself impromptu speech - which she did to the alienation of the media industry and possible supporters Fe>Fi ) over the 'moral stiffness' of gamma and Fi - in where a certain kind of censorship is emphasized for relational harmony.
    this

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    What exactly are you defining Fi as when you say she has unvalued Fi? ILIs aren't exactly dynamic unethical introverts. I don't see anything hinting at Fe valuing or what's all that Fe about her. She seems to have some typical Fe-PoLR problems, and makes perfect use of Te creative.
    Last edited by 717495; 08-08-2012 at 01:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    What exactly are you defining Fi as when you say she has unvalued Fi? ILIs aren't exactly dynamic unethical introverts. I don't see anything hinting at Fe valuing or what's all that Fe about her. She seems to have some typical Fe-PoLR problems, and makes perfect use of Te creative.
    well...her stance on her relationships with men....she focused on how things changed between her and her men, how it seemed to end badly at first but then on how it changed and became better and how she felt about them now. just the way she said it, seemed to reflect dynamic Fe much more than static Fi. and the way she said it, she seems to embrace that feelings are always changing.



    listen to the words of this song and the way she sings it. there is no fucking way this woman is Fi or logical. Fe all the way, do it.
    Last edited by Blaze; 08-06-2010 at 02:07 AM.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    She talks about enjoying the highest highs and lowest lows, which is the epitome of Beta. (Betas lack tempo)

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    What exactly are you defining Fi as when you say she has unvalued Fi? ILIs aren't exactly dynamic unethical introverts. I don't see anything hinting at Fe valuing or what's all that Fe about her. She seems to have some typical Fe-PoLR problems, and makes perfect use of Te creative.

    I don't think you are using the definition of ethics as seen in socionics - what does the statement I put in bold even mean? I don't think that's a good justification for anything, there's a clear difference between ethicals and logicals - surely you are not correlating ethics with 'morality' as every type has their own code...As far as Fe valuing, I find it more than just a little puzzling that you don't see Fe - her quotes are focused on ethical aspects, her interviews, its her way of being, how she uses phrases and how she interacts - I would go into depth explaining but to go as far as to confuse an Fe ego with Fe PoLR, it would be a bit much.

    What are these Fe PoLR problems you see, and how do you see perfect use of her Te creative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Of the ones there… Tupac and Cobain are definite INFps. Jim Morrison is some Beta but I'm not sure which. Michael Jackson might be INFp but he's hard to type. I still think Eminem is faux-Beta. Best I can figure for Jimi Hendrix is INTp and I know Bob Dylan's ISFj as fuck.



    Yeah, sounds mostly like talk of emotional histrionics and shit that would bore me to tears.



    Gammas aren't "morally stiff."
    I put it in quotes because I feel gammas can be considered in that light under certain circumstances (although they aren't necessarily like that or always like that) whereas fiona doesn't show a trace; as in I could see why one might call a gamma that but it would be unreasonable to say that about her.

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    Gammas do have a tendency to forcefully abide by their value systems, which can come off as self-righteous and morally stiff to other quadras. The same way Betas can forcefully abide by their own ideological systems. Gammas are quite capable of being very judgmental about other people's values .

    I don't see why this is so controversial. If it's accepted that Beta's can be rigid in their beliefs, why isn't it accepted in Gamma's? Both are quadras.

    Obviously the extent to which any of this is true will depend on the person should be taken into consideration along with other criteria when typing, but if you don't find even a hint of it, you should probably consider other possibilities as well.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Because to me 'morality' typically conveys connotations of an 'ethical' code that comes from outside of the self, that the person's essentially indoctrinated with through religion or some other dogma, along with a mandate prescribing that everyone else should believe/behave the same ways.

    It isn't like that at all. Yeah, values tend to be pretty serious for Gamma and of the highest importance—vital to life itself, even. But it's a code that comes from within, that applies only to one's self and is hence only true in context to the self. I don't expect anyone else to live by my expectations and I won't judge them as less for not doing so (though if they infringe on mine, we're going to have a problem). If I don't like another person's standards, I simply don't allow close relations with them—or if its bad enough, I'll avoid dealing with them entirely. Which doesn't necessarily involve a judgment of that person being good or bad (though some people are inherently good, some inherently bad). They're just different, and perhaps in a way that's bad for me personally. In which case it's pragmatic that I shouldn't waste time dealing with them because nothing of constructive worth is going to come out of it—in any personal/emotional/spiritual sense or what have you.

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    Not sure what point you're trying to make. I don't see any of that as being necessarily indicative of Fe creative, pirate. She's much more alike to ILIs, even in the style of expressiveness and playfulness she has.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Poli confuses his own pathetic whinyass, blubbery, butthurt nature with being "Fe PoLR", and on account of her being female+his benefactor he probably feels sentimentally moved by her (though she doesn't come off like he does) to a point that he overly-identifies with her person.
    Do you always just make things up as you go?

    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    There may even be others but I'm not aware of them(Bob Dylan?).
    Bob Dylan is a great example of an IEI. Everything he says is Fe tinged Ni.
    Last edited by 717495; 08-08-2012 at 01:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    About you being a whinebag? No, that's obvious judging by your recent arguments.

    About the thing I said of people sometimes being prone to overly-identify with their benefactor, no I'm not making that up and I've observed that trend manifesting in many Benefit pairs.
    It was a rhetorical question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    You're only saying that right now just to be an asshole.

    Bob Dylan's actually a great example of someone who'd come across "morally stiff" in the way I think thePirate was talking about.
    I wouldn't say Bob Dylan is really morally stiff, unless you change the whole definition of what that means. He comes across like that sometimes...but typically IEIs will be more attentive to Fi than EIEs are. He's definitely an Fe creative--your dual.
    Last edited by 717495; 08-08-2012 at 01:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Gammas do have a tendency to forcefully abide by their value systems, which can come off as self-righteous and morally stiff to other quadras. The same way Betas can forcefully abide by their own ideological systems. Gammas are quite capable of being very judgmental about other people's values .

    I don't see why this is so controversial. If it's accepted that Beta's can be rigid in their beliefs, why isn't it accepted in Gamma's? Both are quadras.

    Obviously the extent to which any of this is true will depend on the person should be taken into consideration along with other criteria when typing, but if you don't find even a hint of it, you should probably consider other possibilities as well.
    This is pretty much true. I guess to me Beta Fe always has a way of being more purposeful than Gamma's Fi (which is more ideological in a quadral nature, not to say Fi ego isn't purposeful. it's just not thrown about how Fe is.), and at the same time Gamma's Te seems more purposeful than Beta's Ti. Though those are basically placing the functions themselves without the Ni/Se tinge. IEIs have a way of tapping more into Fi than EIEs do, especially in order to defend their Fe. But for ILIs, Fi is always an ethical necessity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Not sure what point you're trying to make. I don't see any of that as being necessarily indicative of Fe creative, pirate. She's much more alike to ILIs, even in the style of expressiveness and playfulness she has.
    well, I don't agree with this as I see her level of emotionality and energy and overall vibe done match that for me, but that difference in perception I don't think can really be argued on this level, so to this I ask again:

    What are these Fe PoLR problems you see, and how do you see perfect use of her Te creative?

    EDIT: Sapphoo <3

    Last edited by thePirate; 08-06-2010 at 08:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Gammas do have a tendency to forcefully abide by their value systems, which can come off as self-righteous and morally stiff to other quadras. The same way Betas can forcefully abide by their own ideological systems. Gammas are quite capable of being very judgmental about other people's values .

    I don't see why this is so controversial. If it's accepted that Beta's can be rigid in their beliefs, why isn't it accepted in Gamma's? Both are quadras.

    Obviously the extent to which any of this is true will depend on the person should be taken into consideration along with other criteria when typing, but if you don't find even a hint of it, you should probably consider other possibilities as well.
    i knew there was a reason i liked betas. and yeah agree with what you're saying.

    every quadra is rigid about something, evil about something, loose about something, pedantic about something, pretentious about something....the list could go on.

    that said fiona apple is awesome. she helped get me through my divorce. i used to sit in front of my computer and play her songs really loud and cry. if that's not Fe in the ego what the hell is.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    ESTP

    Robert Christgau: CG: fiona apple

    "Extraordinary Machine [Clean Slate/Epic, 2005]
    Instead of delivering the music a sharp-tongued breakup record by an empowered young female would imply--if not folk-rock plain and simple, then emotional piano-woman pop--Apple adapts Broadway show tune to confessional mode. Although Mike Elizondo adds momentum, Jon Brion's colors still predominate, and the melodic and structural contours are all Apple's. Ira Gershwin she's not; Betty Comden she's not either. But she wouldn't be half as inspiring if they were what she was aiming for. A-"


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    IEI-Ni

    And likely social-first - So/Sp would be my guess.

    Fiona: "In my head my agenda was, that everyone was now going to know me and understand me and be my friend and I was going to be able to walk into a room and not feel so shy because everyone was going to know what kind of person I was and how I was feeling inside... but instead of becoming very understood and accepted that I became so wildly misunderstood and unaccepted that it really screwed with my head...I'm a very very sensitive person, you can't knock me down with a feather anymore but you can still make me cry pretty easy, but I was miserable...I'm not an extremely social creature and I certainly wasn't one then..."
    ^ Her on-stage performing aside, it sounds like in her personal life she strives for social recognition and full transparency of who she is as a person, and that she got some serious blues when her need for social acknowledgement and acceptance was not met.

    Enneagram-wise I had an inkling of "competence triad" types vibe from her, though not sure where this is coming from ...


    updated typing: Ni-IEI so/sp 3w4
    Last edited by silke; 02-26-2017 at 03:56 AM.

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    IEI-Ni

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    fuck, I don't know. She looks very Ni and I don't like anything about her. I agree with So/sp. Vaguely Fe/Ti > Fi/Te.

    "The way I feel about music is that there is no right and wrong. Only true and false."

    "I'm not a control freak."

    And if I'm being honest, I don't think I have an ex-boyfriend who would have something mean to say about me.

    "When you're surrounded by all these people, it can be even lonelier than when you're by yourself. You can be in a huge crowd, but if you don't feel like you can trust anybody or talk to anybody, you feel like you're really alone."

    As a person who performs on stage, it's good to be emotionally open. If you mess with someone when they are in that state, it's like you're messing with an animal when it's eating.



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    I thought Sx/Sp

    -Most of he songs of hers I've listened to are about relationships. Entire songs directed towards specific men, speaking directly to them, even naming songs after them. Talks about stalking/watching them. A lot of the lyrics are really cutting, harsh and straight-to-the-point. No filter.

    -Really isolated. Disappears for years. Does things and admits openly to things that people consider self-destructive, bizarre, etc. and seems confused as to why people would react negatively, or just doesn't care. There's no 'health' impulse. She just rides it all out.

    I wish I had better reasoning behind it, but I just don't see Social-instinct in her.
    Last edited by suedehead; 11-12-2014 at 02:55 PM.

  38. #38
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    she VIs so/sp and there's scarcely any kind of intensity in her music. I gather her lyrics about relationships could come from her being an I_F type as well.










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    Omg what happened to her ? I've always thought she was so last also, but that may be her 4-ness.


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    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
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    I know she used to openly suffer from anorexia, she said it came as a result of her getting raped when she was young. My boyfriend says she looks like she's on a certain kind of drug that he's had a lot of experience with in this music video. She's had a lot of struggles with personal demons it seems. Either she's slipped back into her eating disorder, abusing drugs or both.

    Last edited by fox; 11-12-2014 at 06:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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