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Thread: Is there a link between personality disorder and typology

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Default Is there a link between personality disorder and typology

    I've read something on a socionics site about it, but is there a direct link between those two?

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    Different people think different things. Some think that specific types are more prone to specific disorders. I don't know if that's true or not, but in some cases it seems to make sense. I think this could be particularly applicable to problems related to the PoLR.

    However, I think that any type can have any disorder.
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    Yes, there is. Different personality disorders are more strongly correlated with certain types than others, and that is no coincidence. Just one example: Cluster A disorders (paranoid, schizotypal, and schizoid) are correlated with introversion in general, whereas cluster B disorders (anti-social, borderline, narcissistic, and histrionic) are correlated with extraversion. Of course they also correlate along other dimension of the types as well. Both the types and the disorders are genetically inherited to a strong degree, and there must be a link between them.

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Ah interesting.

    I'll follow soon with a list of personality disorders and their socionics counterpart.

    Let's see if it is correct.

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    Mariano Rajoy's Avatar
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    That is an interesting project Jarno, even if slightly scary. ILE with an accepting function that loses touch with real world data, mean producing function, disregard for pleas to stop hurting from the role, and a PoLR assumption that others have no emotions, point to one cranky personality.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Just don't go there.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I suspect if you take what I discussed in this thread to it's logical conclusion - that is, asking yourself how the contrary function pairs would influence each other if they were conscious of the influence that is otherwise "hidden" -- then you end up with personalities that exacrebate the "temporary" PD symptoms common to anyone under stress, into a chronic problem of social maladjustment.

    I use Jung's terminology to refer to the relations between conscious and unconscious. He called this "the transcendent function." Although Jung saw them as relations between what we now call information elements, it appears to me to be a rather generalized case applicable to all relationships between contrary elements and governed primarily by the socionics functions themselves.

    http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11490

    As I see it, there are two ways to use transcendent functions. The first way is to let the conscious function of the pair choose from the pool of information available to the conscious function that which is most suitable to the situation. This choice is compensated for by the unconscious function's option of choosing from consciousness' pool of information that which is most useful to itself. It is not an equal relationship, however: consciousness chooses what information is made available to unconsciousness at its own volition and in service to its own ends.

    The second way is to let the unconscious function master the relationship: consciousness sees only what the unconscious wants it to see. Similarly, the unconscious has its pick of unconscious content at its leisure.
    Take the Transformer's Megatron, for example: controlling says, "peace through tyranny!".


    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    just don't go there.
    People deal with this stuff in psychiatry every day.

    That is an interesting project Jarno, even if slightly scary. ILE with an accepting function that loses touch with real world data, mean producing function, disregard for pleas to stop hurting from the role, and a PoLR assumption that others have no emotions, point to one cranky personality.
    Reminds me of the character Bozel, the Prince of Darkness, in the Langrisser RPG series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Just don't go there.
    yeah SO don't go there...

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Just don't go there.
    yeah SO don't go there...
    Give us a reason first.

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    Default Re: Is there a link between personality disorder and typolog

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    I've read something on a socionics site about it, but is there a direct link between those two?
    There probably is, more often than not. Although there many be some intertype tangling wrt current labels, too.

    I think that eventually, many DSM disorders will be reclassified wrt psychological type. At least, they should be. One bonus is that certain behavioral standards won't be quite so liberally "normalized" for everyone. And, the underlying dynamics of cognitive imbalances can be better ascertained once you know the type, and how far along they may have "unravelled" in this direction or that ...

    EDIT: It is important to remember that current diagnoses of such disorders are manmade labels and undergo periodic revisioning. They usually were not constructed via the most scientific of methodologies. It is also my understanding that psychology research in general is not always the most analytically-constructed, nor well-funded for that matter, so as to gather enough legitimately useful knowledge to draw useful and meaningful claims from. There are a lot of nonthorough studies and such. And the results are often either common sense, or gathered simply to sell a new drug.

    The field is still quite young.

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    Has anyone actually observed a correlation between type and personality disorders? I've tried to do that, but I did not see a correlation that I could easily establish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean
    Has anyone actually observed a correlation between type and personality disorders?
    Yes, at least if you look at the phenomenon in a wider perspective. Ernst Kretschmer's book Körperbau und Charakter is a very interesting read (I've read it in a Swedish translation), even though his theoretical framework can be criticized. But Kretschmer has made some very thorough and extensive empirical groundwork on the correlations between temperaments, body types, and personality disorders and psychiatric diseases, that shouldn't be dismissed right away.

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    Mariano Rajoy's Avatar
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    A quick and dirty correlation between type and personality disorders could be done. For example, EIE=some histrionic disorder, LIE= some anti-social disorder, LSI= obsessive compulsive disorder...etc.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    From my (theoretical) observation, disordered LIEs tend to be obsessed with making something they have imagined () happen as a result of their plans. They seek alliance with the strong ( by ) as a means of accomplishing this.

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
    A quick and dirty correlation between type and personality disorders could be done. For example, EIE=some histrionic disorder, LIE= some anti-social disorder, LSI= obsessive compulsive disorder...etc.
    oke here we are getting somewhere.

    I'll make a new topic with a list stating all the disorders and their type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean
    Has anyone actually observed a correlation between type and personality disorders?
    Yes, at least if you look at the phenomenon in a wider perspective. Ernst Kretschmer's book Körperbau und Charakter is a very interesting read (I've read it in a Swedish translation), even though his theoretical framework can be criticized. But Kretschmer has made some very thorough and extensive empirical groundwork on the correlations between temperaments, body types, and personality disorders and psychiatric diseases, that shouldn't be dismissed right away.
    First of all. this book is from 1977, which is a loooong time in this field. Second of all, if his theoretical groundwork is questionable, his empirical groundwork cannot be of much value. It has been used for further studies, but has not been all that influential overall, and for a reason.

    But more importantly, this is not ever going to lead anywhere.

    a) You will only take your stereotypes and throw them together with a mental disorder (dependent ISFj or antisocial ENTp).
    b) Anyone who has a personality disorder will not act like his/her type normally does. When I am in a depressive phase, you would not
    ever recognize me as an ENFp. In fact, you might think I am ISTj.
    c) The danger of this does not justify the benefits. You cannot possibly come up with anything valuable on here. This is the sort of thing
    that should be left to the experts or left alone entirely.

    In conclusion, it is silly.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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