Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 74

Thread: ENTp relationship and friendship issues

  1. #1
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default ENTp relationship and friendship issues

    This thread is intended to be somewhat of a support thread to allow ENTps to vent, rant, and hopefully answer eachothers posts in order to help us understand... well, us.

    I am too sleepy to write a good post for this thread right now, but I shall be back.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  2. #2
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Have you ever noticed that sleep and food are interchangeable?

    One of my main relationship/friendship issues is that I desire inconsistent levels of attention. I also give very inconsistent levels of attention.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  3. #3
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Oh we all need sympathy. Sympathy is just having people that understand your problems, doesn't matter if you're in the wrong or not.

    We also have trouble knowing if we are at fault or not. To be quite honest though, when you think in terms of socionics(sort of like competing forms of information) alot of the time what is "right" and "wrong" or who is to blame for any matter begins to break down. It all depends on the individual. All you can do is look for someone with experience and understanding to help guide you through your issues.

  4. #4
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's all about understanding ourselves so we can improve ourselves. This thread has NOTHING to do with sympathy, especially from other types.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  5. #5
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    And as far as I'm concerned, whether we treat people "right" or "wrong" is about self-acceptance.

    waddles w, your right... much of dealing with others revolves around perspective.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  6. #6
    Cone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,717
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Pedro's right, though. You guys have this wonderful ice cream sundae in front of you, yet you cry because there's no cherry on it.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

  7. #7
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i don't get it
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    i don't get it
    you don't have relationship problems compared to others.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  9. #9
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't know what each type is like in friendships and relationships, but it seems to me that every type has problems.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  10. #10
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Don't have relationship problems compared to others?!

  11. #11
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by waddles
    Don't have relationship problems compared to others?!
    LOL, that's what I was thinking. Just being charismatic doesn't mean that we connect with people or that we can keep friends or make any sense out of our relationships.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Florida
    TIM
    ILE 8w9
    Posts
    3,249
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Almost everyone has some problem with their hidden agenda, crying about it does nothing.

    In fact, to make this thread mean something (sorry… Joy):

    This tread is a good indicator of the problems of the ENTp’s. ENTp’s find it difficult to evaluate importance, and when doing so, may be either appear to be or is egocentric.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Florida
    TIM
    ILE 8w9
    Posts
    3,249
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean

    In fact, to make this thread mean something (sorry… Joy):....

    ENTp’s... may be either appear to be or is egocentric.
    I guess I can be a hypocrite sometimes.

  14. #14
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    no one is crying about anything. I don't think that was joy's intention. Every type has different problems and the forum is an interesting place to discuss things with people that have similar problems. I don't see why anyone is so bothered by it. you don't like the thread, ignore it. There are more threads about INTj problems than any other type but no one says anything. Well, I have problems, too. And although I blow them out of proportion and make a bigger presentation than necessary, people find them interesting because it gives them some anecdotes and so forth that they can think about.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by waddles w
    no one is crying about anything.
    That's the way it would look to someone with an Fe PoLR.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  16. #16
    Waddlesworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default



    Really!? so we look like crybabies to you?



    Well I think this is a good thread and when i have more relationship problems, which i undoubtedly will, I'll post here.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @PTL: wads is right, the alpha threads are intj problem-city. Thread after thread about intj's and how to reach them, how to help them be less depressed, how to figure them out blah blah blah. It's kind of like the pot calling the kettle black, for sure.

    It's hard to be entp in a world of and . I've tried all kinds of things but that 4th function sucks the big one. Things that other types get entp does not. Although everyone has a polr, they have different ones, ergo different problems. Even estp's with their polr of aren't as handicapped due to their which puts them totally in touch with details facts and figures which they use to offset a weak . Entp's with their absentminded can't compensate as well.

    Plus we can be so irritating to others with our and all our half baked plans and ideas (I'm speaking for myself here and being brutally honest). Learning when to use was a big step for me.

    I know this post is kind of vague, but I guess I'm waiting to see what we all decide to share here. And I think it's a great thread idea!
    Entp
    ILE

  18. #18
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    edit

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: ENTp relationship and friendship issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    This thread is intended to be somewhat of a support thread to allow ENTps to vent, rant, and hopefully answer eachothers posts in order to help us understand... well, us.
    wtf? let's cut through the crap. you guys don't need sympathy you need to learn how to stop blaming other people for your problems.
    I don't do that, unless the problems really aren't my fault. (e.g., a drunk driver drives into me) Mostly I think everyone is to blame for their own unhappiness. I think I have a gift for just seeing through peoples' garbage arguments and excuses for being the way they are, so to others it may look like a blame game.

    EDIT: I am not denying that I am a hypocrite.

  20. #20
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Blaze, very well said.

    Essentially, I have a hard time understanding how I feel about people. If I'm getting along with someone I can give them too much attention, which causes problems. More often though I just don't follow up on new possible friendships. I just don't feel like it. And then time passes and it would be ridiculous for me to give them a call of of nowhere. I also get offended most of the time when I get hit on. I either respond too negatively or not negatively enough. Lately I've decided that ignoring it entirely is the way for me to go. And again, attention is an issue. Sometimes I just want to be left alone and sometimes I want someone to pay attention to me. It's pretty random.


    Yeah.... this isn't at all what I had in mind when I started this thread! lol
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Pedro's right, though. You guys have this wonderful ice cream sundae in front of you, yet you cry because there's no cherry on it.
    What ice cream sundae?
    Entp
    ILE

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    220
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think you guys were way too harsh! Every type can & does have 'problems with friendships' - as an ENFP I can tell you that. Joy started a thread to discuss the difficulties she and other ESTPs have with them. Every other type can do the same too! Doesn't mean they're whining when they've got no right - it's obviously something that bothers Joy, and in my books that's enough of a reason to bring it up.

    Whine away!

    Kidding. Personally I think the biggest problem I've had with friends who I think are ENTP (I suck at type identification, but let's just go with it) is you're totally inconsistent (pot calling kettle blaaaack) but you guys have a defensive arrogance that goes along with it. While I just may forget to call you / see you / spend time with you - it's because I'm distracted by other stuff. But when I get around to it (and I do) I'll love you all the same! And apologise for being distant. You guys (from my experience ) if you do acknowledge it, it's more of a "what of it "
    ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
    In touch with semireality.

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeonMonk
    I think you guys were way too harsh! Every type can & does have 'problems with friendships' - as an ENFP I can tell you that. Joy started a thread to discuss the difficulties she and other ESTPs have with them. Every other type can do the same too! Doesn't mean they're whining when they've got no right - it's obviously something that bothers Joy, and in my books that's enough of a reason to bring it up.

    Whine away!

    Kidding. Personally I think the biggest problem I've had with friends who I think are ENTP (I suck at type identification, but let's just go with it) is you're totally inconsistent (pot calling kettle blaaaack) but you guys have a defensive arrogance that goes along with it. While I just may forget to call you / see you / spend time with you - it's because I'm distracted by other stuff. But when I get around to it (and I do) I'll love you all the same! And apologise for being distant. You guys (from my experience ) if you do acknowledge it, it's more of a "what of it "
    Yeah we are probably a little defensive and arrogant. Believe it or not we don't even know half the time when we come across that way. I think it comes from not picking up on the feelings and ethics - we just look at the logic and respond with logic which can be out of place when you are talking about relationships with people. Example:

    "You didn't call!"

    "Was I supposed to call?"

    "Yeah, you said you would."

    "You're getting on me? You never call either."

    Is that what you mean, NM?
    Entp
    ILE

  24. #24
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeonMonk
    Kidding. Personally I think the biggest problem I've had with friends who I think are ENTP (I suck at type identification, but let's just go with it) is you're totally inconsistent (pot calling kettle blaaaack) but you guys have a defensive arrogance that goes along with it. While I just may forget to call you / see you / spend time with you - it's because I'm distracted by other stuff. But when I get around to it (and I do) I'll love you all the same! And apologise for being distant. You guys (from my experience ) if you do acknowledge it, it's more of a "what of it "
    That's a really great point! And we don't act like we're sorry because we don't want to make it look like we care more than we should, and we don't want to assume that the other person even noticed. And besides, if we're expected to put forth some type of regular, consistent effort into the friendship, we're being set up to fail from the beginning. If someone is sad because they were hurt by the inattentiveness, we feel like crap. We hate hurting people, but for them to call us on any kind of behavior involving inconsistency feels like a personal rejection.

    I dunno, at least that's how it is with me.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I hate it when ILEs say that they will call you right back, or when you're IMing them they say "brb", and they never show up again. WTF? Why do you do that? I always keep that in the back of my mind when I make a promise like that. It's kind of annoying.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  26. #26
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    We don't say it if we don't intend to follow through. But then stuff happens. We may realize that there was something important that we HAVE to do and should have been doing instead of talking in the first place. Or sometimes someting happens that changes my mental state. I have to be in the right mood to talk to most people. I mean, there are people who I always feel comfortable talking to, but for most people I have to be in the right state of mind. Maybe that's more of a "Joy" thing than an ENTp thing though...

  27. #27
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sometimes I think ENTps feel rejected when there is no real reason for them to.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    483
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I just realized that I had a huge crush on an ENTp guy for most of high school. I'd get into a conversation with him and sometimes it'd be really fun and interesting. But then next time I saw him, he'd ask me something and then get distracted midsentence as I was replying, totally forgetting I was there. Absolute worst thing for my self-confidence, but that's an INTj story.
    Meanwhile, he'd complain about how his girlfriend wasn't paying enough attention to him.

    Don't get me wrong, he's a great person, and it's not his fault he wasn't interested in me. But he was too absent-minded to even be polite sometimes.
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

  29. #29
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ich bin ein ubel glied
    Posts
    8,198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    @PTL: wads is right, the alpha threads are intj problem-city. Thread after thread about intj's and how to reach them, how to help them be less depressed, how to figure them out blah blah blah. It's kind of like the pot calling the kettle black, for sure.

    It's hard to be entp in a world of and . I've tried all kinds of things but that 4th function sucks the big one. Things that other types get entp does not. Although everyone has a polr, they have different ones, ergo different problems. Even estp's with their polr of aren't as handicapped due to their which puts them totally in touch with details facts and figures which they use to offset a weak . Entp's with their absentminded can't compensate as well.

    Plus we can be so irritating to others with our and all our half baked plans and ideas (I'm speaking for myself here and being brutally honest). Learning when to use was a big step for me.

    I know this post is kind of vague, but I guess I'm waiting to see what we all decide to share here. And I think it's a great thread idea!
    Ohhh YES! I totally relate to this ... I could not guide myself out of a paperbag using , I am that absentminded ... I have to keep things I need during the day in one default location, usually my car, to make it impossible to go anywhere without forgetting something.

    And the hair brained schemes too, I come up with those alot with theories and such. It is about all I do anymore.

  30. #30
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ich bin ein ubel glied
    Posts
    8,198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Sometimes I think ENTps feel rejected when there is no real reason for them to.
    I have felt rejected my whole life, which always puzzles people because I am generally liked by them and I do not always realize it. I feel like the whole world has rejected me.

  31. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ich bin ein ubel glied
    Posts
    8,198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    And another thing, what is it with ENTps and promoscuity?

    I mean, for me it seems to hard to start a relationship, that I can get pesimistic and think that I would be cursed to a life of promoscuity and there is no changing that.

    I do not think people always realize how messed up ENTps are when it comes to relationships. There are alot of nice things about ENTps, but that is not one of them.

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    //

  33. #33
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    yeah, it's generally one of two things:

    1) a fear of intimacy, or
    2) chronically low dopamine, norepinephrine, and/or phenylaneline
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  34. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ich bin ein ubel glied
    Posts
    8,198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah, I do have a bad fear of intimacy ... I do not deny that. And I know I am screwed in the head, so bad at times that I have had to take medication ... probably what joy said.

  35. #35
    MysticSonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,993
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Promiscuity is also a source of easily derived pleasure; perhaps I'm simply throwing my sexually minded adolescent twist on things?

    I doubt it.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  36. #36
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    But I can't picture casual sex being anywhere near as fun as sex with someone you're really close to and feel absolutely comfortable with.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  37. #37
    MysticSonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,993
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ::Shrug::

    I can't really speak about sex except out of ignorance, so I suppose I'm not really in the position to speak in the matter.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  38. #38
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, I'm sure it's different for everyone. However....

    An insecure ENTp is a very dangerous thing indeed.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  39. #39
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My main relationship issue is that I really just don't like most people. I mean, I don't actively dislike them, I'm just not interested. Most people's interests are so different from my own that I derive no benefit from socializing with them, so I don't. I have a few close friends, but none that I really connect with. People tell me I connect with them, but they don't connect with me. Maybe I'm not letting them? I'm not sure, but I always feel distanced from others on some deep level. I love people, deep down, but there's some block there, and I believe I should really work on fixing it, because I desire a close, physical relationship.

    MysticSonic, when you discover the blend of awkwardness, hilarity, pleasure, and lust that is human copulation, you will be a new man. I bet you'd be really funny to see the morning after.

    "I am detecting an unaccountable feeling of primal satisfaction that seems to be eminating from my pants. I sense that I recently was involved in the kicking of something's ass, and that that thing was very large indeed. Additionally, although I am physically depleted at present, I want to continue kicking this giant ass until I am no longer able to force myself to do so. Someone needs to construct me a sandwhich."

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    83
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    I'm not sure, but I always feel distanced from others on some deep level. I love people, deep down, but there's some block there, and I believe I should really work on fixing it, because I desire a close, physical relationship.
    I hear ya there...this is exactly how i feel around people. Maybe it is just a product of stong intuition. i'm infj with strong and always caught up in my own little world yet thinking about other people, because i do love people yet also feel distanced on that deep level. I really do not like to socialize for the sake of socializing (chatter) unless its going for the sake of learning something new or something that will be a benefit to me or someone else. I think about things/people on a deep level...i just don't think some people think very deeply or if they do they just don't talk about it. i don't know but i think about it a lot. but i always feel disconnected/distanced although i do care. i just tend to get bored with everyday conversation, everyday things and i don't know why? maybe it has to do with emotional intelligence? even though i don't post much, i keep up with the conversations on the message boards daily. the people that come here are really interesting and just seem deeper and more detailed to me than people i meet in rl. i just like details, i mean what would life be like if u didn't recognize the details? what would a story be like without the details? i just find that the majority of people i meet just lack depth or don't perceive the details in life.... it's just hard to connect with them! i don't know maybe i'm just the weird one and can't see it! haha.... but no i don't really think that is the case.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •