Conversation with your dual vs conflictor

[astralsilky]

If you experience mutual attraction with someone VERY different from you, but wonder if it's duality or conflicting, what telltale signs occur during conversations? Assume these conversations APPEAR harmonious and this is at the initial stages of a relationship.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[FDG]

Conversations with duals can be extremely different depending on the interests of the dual and their overall differnt attitudes towards the world.

Generally in my opinion - there is no particular tie between the quality of conversation and the socionics relationship. I've met tons of ISFjs(or INFps if you still see me as ESTp) that I've gotten bored with after 10 seconds of conversation, and other ISFjs(or INFps) I've been able to go on conversating all night long, even after years of knowing them.

[astralsilky]

Conflicting can almost seem better than dual at first, because they can seem very interesting- different, while your dual is a normal sane person. Conflicting keeps you on your toes. Dual you occassionally want to throw them for a complete loop to see if you can surprise them - shake things up a bit. Dual is kind of like talking to a family member. Conflicting is sort of like ramming your head against a wall for fun - except that it actually is fun when you choose a rubber wall, because you can bounce all over, it's the brick walls that'll get you. Depending on who your dual is and who your conflictor is of course. . .

But ENTps can be tons of fun to talk to, and they jump right in, both feet, no hesitation, and if you get a smart one, the conversation is great. Over time, conversation can still be tons of fun, but arguments leave you wondering if you accidentally stuck your head in the washing machine while drinking vodka and standing on your head singing the alphabet backwards. Arguments with an ENTj tend to have them taking steps back and wondering what's going on, and then it gets all sorted out. You talk, they hear. They talk, you hear. With a conflictor it's you're both talking, but it's in differnent languages and your translators are broken.

I guess one reason why conversation with an intelligent conflictor initially at the beginning of a relationship can be so entertaining and interesting is because you're talking in different languages. Later on that can get very frustrating. Oh, and you won't realize you're talking in different languages. Not right at first. And translators work better when things are good.

Thank you, Diana. This has been hilarious and very helpful.

[astralsilky]

Conversations with duals can be extremely different depending on the interests of the dual and their overall differnt attitudes towards the world.

I can see how they can be different, but extremely different? It seems logical that a certain pattern might emerge, since conversation is such an immediate display of information exchange.

Generally in my opinion - there is no particular tie between the quality of conversation and the socionics relationship. I've met tons of ISFjs(or INFps if you still see me as ESTp) that I've gotten bored with after 10 seconds of conversation, and other ISFjs(or INFps) I've been able to go on conversating all night long, even after years of knowing them.

That makes sense, to some degree. But I do think some conversational norms may exist, especially when getting to know someone.

For example, to never "hear" someone else's point even if they repeat it, because you feel like they're two steps behind you in your thought process. Or to think someone's (quadra-based) values/priorities are so opposed to your own that you have to be careful not to compromise too much (or maybe that is something Fi-dominant is more apt to detect?) Or to experience rapport ... etc. ... say, isn't that what intertype relations are about? :wink:

FDG, have you noticed any tendencies about your (real life) conversation experiences with INFjs and ISFps?

[ScarlettLux]

I am so glad FDG says he's ENTj now.. I've always he wasn't ESTp

[KSpin]

I never thought ENTjs would be so obsessed with sex.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Mea]

I never thought ENTjs would be so obsessed with sex.

Who isn't?

[Mariano Rajoy]

My experience has been that conflicting relationships are intensely good then intensely bad, while dual relationships are good at a deeper, more fundamental level.

Why conflicting relations suck: Even during normal, unemotional conversation the two seem to speak past each other. Everything becomes a double entendre. When the relationship becomes emotional, everything your partner says hurts. A lot. There is often no defense against what your conflictor says and are left dumbfounded and wounded. (ime)

Why dual relationships rule: You may not see everything exactly the same like your identical, but everything your partner says makes sense. It is easy to accept. Even when not talking and just being near, there is a sense of security or relaxation. In my experience, it is a subtle warm fuzzy satiated feeling that kind of wells up.

I can't recall specific conversations though. I will record the instances when they occur in the future...

[sara]

my mom and i live in different cities and just talk over to each other over the phone. when we don't meet each other, i find my mom quite a nice person, not untolerable and actually feel bad for the way i treat her whenever we get together. but of course, such feelings vanish the second i actually meet her. things she says and does never make sense.

i think prolonged interaction will allow you to tell whether the person you're dealing with is a conflictor or not. with a conflictor, you have this sense of hopelessness in any serious communication. and if you want to really do something together, it's really either your way or hir way completely. at least my own experience is, there is just no way you can make your conflictor see things the way i want hir to and this is just so so frustrating you give up in the end and let your conflictor get whatever hir wants.

[Sorc]

I never thought ENTjs would be so obsessed with sex.

Where did you get that from anyway?

My best friend is PUREST FORM ENTj , and heh he is (at least was some long period) obsessed by sex as sport, he liked to pickup and date girls for 1day to 1 week and then meet and date another one. He had 3 sex dates per 1 day once and i told him he is real sex maniac. Now he calmed some but... umm he was telling me lot of time then, that period that he is just obessed by sex.

[KSpin]

Well, for a start, I'm not. :-p

[Expat]

Dual is kind of like talking to a family member.

I know what you mean, but that's already assuming that your family is of a close quadra -- in my case, talking to my dual is precisely the opposite of talking to a family member!

[FDG]

Conversations with duals can be extremely different depending on the interests of the dual and their overall differnt attitudes towards the world.

I can see how they can be different, but extremely different? It seems logical that a certain pattern might emerge, since conversation is such an immediate display of information exchange.

I think that is more evident in the way a person acts. Dual's actions make sense, whereas conflictor actions never do.
Still I've met a very wide variation among ISFjs depeding mostly on their level of mental health and intelligence. Or maybe I had mistyped some of them :S

That makes sense, to some degree. But I do think some conversational norms may exist, especially when getting to know someone.

Just my opinion, but I can dowright sense when I can immediatly be myself and when I can't. My high school classroom had 4 ISFjs in it but I never really got close to any of them. They all looked kind of scared.

For example, to never "hear" someone else's point even if they repeat it, because you feel like they're two steps behind you in your thought process. Or to think someone's (quadra-based) values/priorities are so opposed to your own that you have to be careful not to compromise too much (or maybe that is something Fi-dominant is more apt to detect?) Or to experience rapport ... etc. ... say, isn't that what intertype relations are about? :wink:

FDG, have you noticed any tendencies about your (real life) conversation experiences with INFjs and ISFps?

I don't know many ISFps to be honest, and just two INFjs. With INFjs, we tend to do many things toghether, but they don't really like my sexual jokes usually

[FDG]

I never thought ENTjs would be so obsessed with sex.

I just make some jokes here and there

[Jarno]

If you experience mutual attraction with someone VERY different from you, but wonder if it's duality or conflicting, what telltale signs occur during conversations? Assume these conversations APPEAR harmonious and this is at the initial stages of a relationship.

Some possible hints:


Holding back when laughing -> Conflict
See the other person as full of potential -> Conflict

When you go home, and suddenly start to care about the person for no reason. -> Duality
Getting energized -> Duality

[FDG]

When you go home, and suddenly start to care about the person for no reason. -> Duality
Getting energized -> Duality

Ja, especially the second - it's energy+relax actually in combiation

[Joy]

I like the descriptions of the first conversations with your dual as feeling like you've found another sane person, or someone who "gets it". Regardless of how interesting a person is, only relatively few people will "get it".

[astralsilky]

OK, sounds good so far.

But then how do you distinguish between duality versus identity relations in conversation? Or even mirror? They also are more likely to "get" it (any quadra member, you would think). Every quadra member is capable of expressing the same functions (even if not consistently enough so as to be a strong suit) because they all share a common functional ordering*, is all, which makes for rapport, no?

The more I think about it, this "type-hints-by-conversation" method doesn't sound very useful after all - at least - not in an extraordinary way so as to pinpoint types with better precision. Maybe only a pinch helpful ... Sigh.

* ie, the functional vector directions which account for quadra values

[FDG]

OK, sounds good so far.

But then how do you distinguish between duality versus identity relations in conversation?

Rarely duals agree with each other completely. There's always a degree of correction, which is not present in identical relations - you will often see identical positivist compliment each other, and identical negativists criticize each other, whereas in duals the pos will compliment the neg, and the neg will not criticize the pos because otherwise he/she'd feel guilty.

You see two ENTjs or ESFjs talking toghether - they say to each other "oh you are awesome and i think you will do even better" - two INTjs or ISFjs - putting themselves down (and the other doesn't even know what the hell to say to make the other feel better). In this sense sometimes a positivist EJ might even feel like identity is better than duality for short interactions (you only reiceve compliments).

[astralsilky]

If you experience mutual attraction with someone VERY different from you, but wonder if it's duality or conflicting, what telltale signs occur during conversations? Assume these conversations APPEAR harmonious and this is at the initial stages of a relationship.

Some possible hints:


Holding back when laughing -> Conflict
See the other person as full of potential -> Conflict

When you go home, and suddenly start to care about the person for no reason. -> Duality
Getting energized -> Duality

Jarno, what do you mean by "holding back when laughing"?

[astralsilky]

OK, sounds good so far.

But then how do you distinguish between duality versus identity relations in conversation?

Rarely duals agree with each other completely. There's always a degree of correction, which is not present in identical relations - you will often see identical positivist compliment each other, and identical negativists criticize each other, whereas in duals the pos will compliment the neg, and the neg will not criticize the pos because otherwise he/she'd feel guilty.

You see two ENTjs or ESFjs talking toghether - they say to each other "oh you are awesome and i think you will do even better" - two INTjs or ISFjs - putting themselves down (and the other doesn't even know what the hell to say to make the other feel better). In this sense sometimes a positivist EJ might even feel like identity is better than duality for short interactions (you only reiceve compliments).

OK, this helps. But IME, it highlights an apparent peculiarity.

Has anyone here ever experienced the typical "duality" dynamics with their identical, over a long period of time?

For example,

* feeling incredibly energized by him/her, more than most - you unexplainably get hyper and lively just by his/her presence ... free-flowing joy

* upon initial meeting, either think they're too good for you OR incredibly dull (depending if you are I/E; even tho` you're the SAME type!)

* soon feel this draw after a few repeated interactions to really spend more time with the other person, but you have NO idea why ~ it feels "unconscious" (for lack of a better term)

* eventually switch so you either think they're dull now, else too good for you (switch I/E perception)

* truly feeling like you love him/her for EVerything that they are

* look inside their eyes and believe you are seeing a rare "soulmate" (cliche, but best descriptor for the uncanniness of it and sense of deep inner ghostly who-knows-what)

* YET ... ALWAYS quickly agree in conversation and do not correct each other per se (rather, as FDG says, e.g. mutually criticize if identical negativists). Each brings more helpful input "of the same kind" to the table to help each other achieve the same goals (and there is a feeling of mutual elation).

[Mariano Rajoy]

OK, sounds good so far.

But then how do you distinguish between duality versus identity relations in conversation?

Rarely duals agree with each other completely. There's always a degree of correction, which is not present in identical relations - you will often see identical positivist compliment each other, and identical negativists criticize each other, whereas in duals the pos will compliment the neg, and the neg will not criticize the pos because otherwise he/she'd feel guilty.

You see two ENTjs or ESFjs talking toghether - they say to each other "oh you are awesome and i think you will do even better" - two INTjs or ISFjs - putting themselves down (and the other doesn't even know what the hell to say to make the other feel better). In this sense sometimes a positivist EJ might even feel like identity is better than duality for short interactions (you only reiceve compliments).

OK, this helps. But IME, it highlights an apparent peculiarity.

Has anyone here ever experienced the typical "duality" dynamics with their identical, over a long period of time?

For example,

* feeling incredibly energized by him/her, more than most - you unexplainably get hyper and lively just by his/her presence ... free-flowing joy

* upon initial meeting, either think they're too good for you OR incredibly dull (depending if you are I/E; even tho` you're the SAME type!)

* soon feel this draw after a few repeated interactions to really spend more time with the other person, but you have NO idea why ~ it feels "unconscious" (for lack of a better term)

* eventually switch so you either think they're dull now, else too good for you (switch I/E perception)

* truly feeling like you love him/her for EVerything that they are

* look inside their eyes and believe you are seeing a rare "soulmate" (cliche, but best descriptor for the uncanniness of it and sense of deep inner ghostly who-knows-what)

* YET ... ALWAYS quickly agree in conversation and do not correct each other per se (rather, as FDG says, e.g. mutually criticize if identical negativists). Each brings more helpful input "of the same kind" to the table to help each other achieve the same goals (and there is a feeling of mutual elation).

I have had a long term identical friendship for at least 14 years, and it is nothing like duality. I enjoyed spending time with my friend because it was stable and we agreed on many things; which is fulfilling as a teenager. The most overriding quality, in my experience, is coming to the same conclusions. Even if we did not speak for periods of time, we would pick up where we left off. There was no animosity at not speaking; we both had our own lives to lead. There was always a consistency with how we treated each other, despite circumstances. The descriptions, joy, being energized, soulmate, etc. did not apply.

[Jarno]

Jarno, what do you mean by "holding back when laughing"?

Yes after reading this, I would rather call it: nervous laughing/smiling

Like you are showing that you come in peace. Because you can notice the other persons strength against your weakspot.

I have experienced this myself, but to my surprise did I see this behaviour between two colleageus who are conflictors.

[FDG]

Theres a guy ive worked with at school which im sure hes my identical. we are good at solving a problem toghether, but it seems like we both just want to spell out solutions and expect somebody else to do the hard work of writing them down and bringing them to completion

[Kristiina]

lol, Diana, funny (and very good) post.

With a dual - spending time together is casual fun. Nothing really happened and we didn't talk about anything very important, but I did notice one thing - when I went home I felt very pleasant. I usually later get at least some anxiety attacks about minor misunderstandings that ended in awkward silence, but somehow the ISTj managed to avoid it. I have tried to analyze how the ISTj kept me feeling comfortable, but it's unclear to me. I remember I was sitting, eating the yummy rasberries she served and I was eagerly talking about something, she was acting sorta giddy and the memory is pleasant.

With conflictor - I was in a group feeling very relaxed in my Ni mode. I was rather tired but I was feeling good and I casually expressed my opinion in a group. Then he got confused because I had used a misleading phrase and quickly asked me why I have such an opinion. I immidiately became tense. I explained what I had meant and I cleared the misunderstanding. I talked quick and I added a few smiles and a fun explenations to reassure him that his questions didn't cause problem between us. We ended the conversation with me smiling, but I was very tense, I felt my eyes flick from one object to another, I felt my pulse being much faster than earlier, I felt like I had a small frown I was trying not to show the others. I wasn't even close to being relaxed anymore.

With identical - I keep observing her and trying to figure out if I look the same to others as she does. Not a very close relationship though.

With mirror - the EJ-IP gap is just too big for mixing it up with "the perfect match" duality. I become very chatty and we can really talk for a long time, but there is some growing tension. I guess both are trying a bit too hard to be polite and some things are expressed rather as hints than as conversation. Sometimes the back-and-forth hinting can cause tension and with the politer INFps, the conversations can never last very long until the critical limit of tension is reached and there is a quick, "It was fun talking with you, but I have to go now. tell your sister I said hi."

[astralsilky]

With mirror - the EJ-IP gap is just too big for mixing it up with "the perfect match" duality. I become very chatty and we can really talk for a long time, but there is some growing tension. I guess both are trying a bit too hard to be polite and some things are expressed rather as hints than as conversation. Sometimes the back-and-forth hinting can cause tension and with the politer INFps, the conversations can never last very long until the critical limit of tension is reached and there is a quick, "It was fun talking with you, but I have to go now. tell your sister I said hi."

This sounds like a lot of your Beta-NF-ness also playing into the dynamic.

How about communications with your dual vs. your benefactor?

(This is all helpful, guys, what you've been writing so far ... thanks!)

For example, rumor has it, "the Benefactor cannot hear the Beneficiary". If true, how does this play out IYE?

[ScarlettLux]

With mirror - the EJ-IP gap is just too big for mixing it up with "the perfect match" duality. I become very chatty and we can really talk for a long time, but there is some growing tension. I guess both are trying a bit too hard to be polite and some things are expressed rather as hints than as conversation. Sometimes the back-and-forth hinting can cause tension and with the politer INFps, the conversations can never last very long until the critical limit of tension is reached and there is a quick, "It was fun talking with you, but I have to go now. tell your sister I said hi."

This sounds like a lot of your Beta-NF-ness also playing into the dynamic.

How about communications with your dual vs. your benefactor?

(This is all helpful, guys, what you've been writing so far ... thanks!)

For example, rumor has it, "the Benefactor cannot hear the Beneficiary". If true, how does this play out IYE?

O rly? I dunno about that one, I quite like LIIs and think what they have to say is very interesting. Okay, hm, the one example I can think of that matches that statement is that one LII I was close with (drifted now) used to give me rational, solid advice for Fe messed up situations I was in and I never took his advice despite the fact that it was logical and made a lot of sense from an objective standpoint. I guess that must've annoyed him hahah Sometimes I find what LIIs are saying boring ... but that can be from almost any type.

Speaking of boring, I think comparative is the most boring relationship. I know some ILIs and I just can't find anything to connect with them about. One thinks of me as his really good friend but I just don't feel the bond as I do. At times when we talked, we agreed on things, but it just ... I dunno. There was nothing there, really, for me.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Dual convos seem light-hearted fun, just naturally wash away the pain away, there was nothing like meeting my dual friend. Sadly we both wanted to be boyfriends but it never got to that level...I want to try and build a relationship with him now though as I feel strongly in my heart of hearts that he is my soulmate. Typical dual, we kinda ignored each other at first then we were drawn to each other.

People sometimes say common interests and such are needed to keep a dual relationship going strong. I disagree and I think you can be friends regardless of that. Being together should bring you together... your hobbies can help the process but it's not needed. I'm not saying 'opposites attract' (conflictors, eww) just that no, you don't necessarily have to have common interests. You just have to be going to the same school or the same job, and then just spend some time together. Usually you'll be so much IN love without analyzing or thinking about anything that you won't know how much they meant to you until they go away and then you go:

"God fucking DAMN that was a fucking AWESOME person. Fuckity fuck fuck."

We both became crazy about each other (it took time mind you, about ten months or so) and I could fall asleep in that man's arms for all eternity and float away on a cloud of pure mystical gay love. But we had almost nothing in common. We just wanted to spend time together naturally... I dunno. He liked rap and eminem, can't really stand that. He played hockey, basketball all sports... that is so not my thing. We both liked sex jokes though, so I guess there was that. What I loved the most about him was that he protected me when everybody else was all 'just do it yourself.' But then I cried and was all 'waaah I don't want to do it' so he protected me from getting hurt. He could cook, clean, and do everything 'real' so naturally, I dunno what I really offered to him since I'm lazy and not really good at anything besides writing. But we liked each other. ++

Now I can be with somebody who does have my interests and that doesn't really mean jack shit because hobbies are just hobbies... real love is more powerful than that. I mean, there are plenty of other people that like the same things I do and I just don't really give a shit about them so I never got that whole 'interests thing.' I think you have to be pretty much from a similiar CULTURE though and you have to understand the language one's speaking.

[ScarlettLux]

Dual convos seem light-hearted fun, just naturally wash away the pain away, there was nothing like meeting my dual friend. Sadly we both wanted to be boyfriends but it never got to that level...I want to try and build a relationship with him now though as I feel strongly in my heart of hearts that he is my soulmate. Typical dual, we kinda ignored each other at first then we were drawn to each other.

People sometimes say common interests and such are needed to keep a dual relationship going strong. I disagree and I think you can be friends regardless of that. Being together should bring you together... your hobbies can help the process but it's not needed. I'm not saying 'opposites attract' (conflictors, eww) just that no, you don't necessarily have to have common interests. You just have to be going to the same school or the same job, and then just spend some time together. Usually you'll be so much IN love without analyzing or thinking about anything that you won't know how much they meant to you until they go away and then you go:

"God fucking DAMN that was a fucking AWESOME person. Fuckity fuck fuck."

We both became crazy about each other (it took time mind you, about ten months or so) and I could fall asleep in that man's arms for all eternity and float away on a cloud of pure mystical gay love. But we had almost nothing in common. We just wanted to spend time together naturally... I dunno. He liked rap and eminem, can't really stand that. He played hockey, basketball all sports... that is so not my thing. We both liked sex jokes though, so I guess there was that. What I loved the most about him was that he protected me when everybody else was all 'just do it yourself.' But then I cried and was all 'waaah I don't want to do it' so he protected me from getting hurt. He could cook, clean, and do everything 'real' so naturally, I dunno what I really offered to him since I'm lazy and not really good at anything besides writing. But we liked each other. ++

Now I can be with somebody who does have my interests and that doesn't really mean jack shit because hobbies are just hobbies... real love is more powerful than that. I mean, there are plenty of other people that like the same things I do and I just don't really give a shit about them so I never got that whole 'interests thing.' I think you have to be pretty much from a similiar CULTURE though and you have to understand the language one's speaking.

OH MY GOD, agreed SO much on this. The part about how hobbies doesn't mean anything! It's so fucking true - I've had a horrible experience with an IEE Fi subtype guy ... ugh it was the most boring, stale, non-connected relationship I've ever had (almost lol) but we had all the same interests. I totally idealized the potential of the relationship in the beginning, thinking that all I ever needed was someone who was similar to me in terms of interests to have a great thing going (BOY was I wrong) ... that was the time in my life when I didn't realize that such things don't even matter. Real compatibility is almost inexplicable .. it's just a feeling you get after a long period of time (again, agreed that most "true" forms of love/deep affection occur after long ass periods of time spent together, shared experiences, getting really used to the other that it becomes second nature to be with them, know their reactions) I am beginning to experience that. Just being apart from said person is painful, I don't even realize it until they're not there - I feel so lonely and I just want to talk to them... things are not great without them, there's just something that lends itself to feeling comfortable, at ease.

[misutii]

If you experience mutual attraction with someone VERY different from you, but wonder if it's duality or conflicting, what telltale signs occur during conversations? Assume these conversations APPEAR harmonious and this is at the initial stages of a relationship.

Some possible hints:


Holding back when laughing -> Conflict
See the other person as full of potential -> Conflict

When you go home, and suddenly start to care about the person for no reason. -> Duality
Getting energized -> Duality

Jarno, what do you mean by "holding back when laughing"?

adding to this I've noticed something that seems to hold true in dual vs. conflictor conversations. You can tell the difference by paying attention to how both parties interpret humour. With your dual you can be utterly sarcastic and they'll seemingly always pick up on that, it's like they know when to take you seriously or to joke around. With conflictors, however, things like sarcasm are often interpreted incorrectly. By this I mean you could be joking about something and your conflictor will actually take it seriously.

[Ms. Kensington]

My experience has been that conflicting relationships are intensely good then intensely bad, while dual relationships are good at a deeper, more fundamental level.

Why conflicting relations suck: Even during normal, unemotional conversation the two seem to speak past each other. Everything becomes a double entendre. When the relationship becomes emotional, everything your partner says hurts. A lot. There is often no defense against what your conflictor says and are left dumbfounded and wounded. (ime)

Why dual relationships rule: You may not see everything exactly the same like your identical, but everything your partner says makes sense. It is easy to accept. Even when not talking and just being near, there is a sense of security or relaxation. In my experience, it is a subtle warm fuzzy satiated feeling that kind of wells up.

I can't recall specific conversations though. I will record the instances when they occur in the future...

... where to start..? Conversation with my conflictor (ESFp)

-talk at exactly the same time, no rhythm to the convo (this is not a sometimes occurance)
-frequent misunderstanding of meaning and intention and because of this the next two items
-anger inducing
-offensive to the other, often causing confusion as to why comments were offensive
-tiring, for apparently no reason (but with socionics knowledge, simply being exposed to information regarding your polr/needing your 7th function, which can be tiring because you don't want to do it for long periods of time)

Things that can be good

-on superficial levels, on things regarding the physical world or real world issues, conflictors offer information which is interesting, and many times helpful
-strengths can be appreciated from afar

to astralsilky--

I think at the beginning stages it's hard to tell if someone is your dual or your conflictor because there is some distance there, and you might mistake this surface information you find helpful as evidence that that person will continue to be helpful in all situations including those that are more personal.. so I don't have an answer for you. I think i tend to get strong conflictor vibes though, not related to content of speech.

*deep breath*

[Blaze]

My experience has been that conflicting relationships are intensely good then intensely bad, while dual relationships are good at a deeper, more fundamental level.

Why conflicting relations suck: Even during normal, unemotional conversation the two seem to speak past each other. Everything becomes a double entendre. When the relationship becomes emotional, everything your partner says hurts. A lot. There is often no defense against what your conflictor says and are left dumbfounded and wounded. (ime)

Why dual relationships rule: You may not see everything exactly the same like your identical, but everything your partner says makes sense. It is easy to accept. Even when not talking and just being near, there is a sense of security or relaxation. In my experience, it is a subtle warm fuzzy satiated feeling that kind of wells up.

I can't recall specific conversations though. I will record the instances when they occur in the future...

... where to start..? Conversation with my conflictor (ESFp)

-talk at exactly the same time, no rhythm to the convo (this is not a sometimes occurance)
-frequent misunderstanding of meaning and intention and because of this the next two items
-anger inducing
-offensive to the other, often causing confusion as to why comments were offensive
-tiring, for apparently no reason (but with socionics knowledge, simply being exposed to information regarding your polr/needing your 7th function, which can be tiring because you don't want to do it for long periods of time)

Things that can be good

-on superficial levels, on things regarding the physical world or real world issues, conflictors offer information which is interesting, and many times helpful
-strengths can be appreciated from afar

to astralsilky--

I think at the beginning stages it's hard to tell if someone is your dual or your conflictor because there is some distance there, and you might mistake this surface information you find helpful as evidence that that person will continue to be helpful in all situations including those that are more personal.. so I don't have an answer for you. I think i tend to get strong conflictor vibes though, not related to content of speech.

*deep breath*

dead on ms. k. this is exactly what conflict relations are like.

[Suomea]

....

[discojoe]

ENTj: I like games.

ENTp: Games?

[Khamelion]

[astralsilky]

Now I can be with somebody who does have my interests and that doesn't really mean jack shit because hobbies are just hobbies...

OH MY GOD, agreed SO much on this. The part about how hobbies doesn't mean anything!

Huh, interesting. So apparently for some people, this is true. But I'm in the other camp.

[UDP]

OK, sounds good so far.

But then how do you distinguish between duality versus identity relations in conversation?

Rarely duals agree with each other completely. There's always a degree of correction, which is not present in identical relations - you will often see identical positivist compliment each other, and identical negativists criticize each other, whereas in duals the pos will compliment the neg, and the neg will not criticize the pos because otherwise he/she'd feel guilty.

That seems like a good description in general, however, I do criticize my dual INFj. I believe it even says in the gamma rational dual description that there is an element of mutual criticism.

As for myself with INFjs, they generally just are lacking in their ability to grasp some aspect of reality, so I am always bringing a more realistic edge to balance them out. I do not agree with them all the time. I do not over criticize them either, I hope, although I have in the past. I don't like being mean, and they are usually pretty sweet and cute, and I try to do it via Si....however, sometimes people just have to be told it how it is. It doesn't matter who I'm talking to, they're going to hear the truth, whether they like it or not. And if something can be improved, they are going to hear that, too.

[UDP]

OH MY GOD, agreed SO much on this. The part about how hobbies doesn't mean anything! It's so fucking true - I've had a horrible experience with an IEE Fi subtype guy ... ugh it was the most boring, stale, non-connected relationship I've ever had (almost lol) but we had all the same interests. I totally idealized the potential of the relationship in the beginning, thinking that all I ever needed was someone who was similar to me in terms of interests to have a great thing going (BOY was I wrong) ... that was the time in my life when I didn't realize that such things don't even matter. Real compatibility is almost inexplicable .. it's just a feeling you get after a long period of time (again, agreed that most "true" forms of love/deep affection occur after long ass periods of time spent together, shared experiences, getting really used to the other that it becomes second nature to be with them, know their reactions) I am beginning to experience that. Just being apart from said person is painful, I don't even realize it until they're not there - I feel so lonely and I just want to talk to them... things are not great without them, there's just something that lends itself to feeling comfortable, at ease.

Generally agree