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Thread: The desire to be authentic

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    Default The desire to be authentic

    I have often done things just to be different from others. For instance all my friends play the guitar/base or at the most the piano or even the sax, however I wanted to be authentic/different and I decided to learn the clarinet by myself.

    This sort of thing happens with other thigns too, if everyone listens to rock, I try pop, or classical music, that sort othing. And at toehr times I decide to do exactly what otehrs value, for instrance I listen the most popular radio stations in my area, I have programmed them by order of their audience size.

    Are these things type related?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    The desire to be different is different from the desire to be authentic...

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    it's called having a brain of your own. (;

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeddler
    The desire to be different is different from the desire to be authentic...
    I am not entirely sure which tendency I have, that's why I used both terms.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    it's called having a brain of your own. (;
    The thing though ist hat sometimes I want to be different just for the sake of being different.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Default Re: The desire to be authentic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I have often done things just to be different from others. For instance all my friends play the guitar/base or at the most the piano or even the sax, however I wanted to be authentic/different and I decided to learn the clarinet by myself.

    This sort of thing happens with other thigns too, if everyone listens to rock, I try pop, or classical music, that sort othing. And at toehr times I decide to do exactly what otehrs value, for instrance I listen the most popular radio stations in my area, I have programmed them by order of their audience size.

    Are these things type related?
    There's two possibilities here:

    A.) In both of the situations you described, you care what others are doing and what they think. Even if you go against the crowd, you're still making your decisions based on popular opinion.

    -OR-

    B.) You notice what others are doing and question the reasons. You then make your decisions based not on what they are doing (or not doing), but your own personal reasons.














    Answer Key: A is different, B is authentic

    I can't say that I've never done things differently than others just because it irritated me that almost everyone was doing something a certain way for no reason other than because that's how everyone else was doing it. I am happy doing things the way others do them if I have my own reason to, even if it's the same as their reason... as long as that reason isn't to be like everyone else.
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    Default Re: The desire to be authentic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I have often done things just to be different from others. For instance all my friends play the guitar/base or at the most the piano or even the sax, however I wanted to be authentic/different and I decided to learn the clarinet by myself.

    This sort of thing happens with other thigns too, if everyone listens to rock, I try pop, or classical music, that sort othing. And at toehr times I decide to do exactly what otehrs value, for instrance I listen the most popular radio stations in my area, I have programmed them by order of their audience size.

    Are these things type related?
    This isn't being authentic. It's being a reactionary individualist. Be carefull. Compulsive rebellion is just another form of enslavement.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    it's called having a brain of your own. (;
    The thing though ist hat sometimes I want to be different just for the sake of being different.
    Are you an enneagram 4w3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    Compulsive rebellion is just another form of enslavement.
    <3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    it's called having a brain of your own. (;
    The thing though ist hat sometimes I want to be different just for the sake of being different.
    Why do you want to be different just for the sake of being different?
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

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    Default Re: The desire to be authentic

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I have often done things just to be different from others. For instance all my friends play the guitar/base or at the most the piano or even the sax, however I wanted to be authentic/different and I decided to learn the clarinet by myself.

    This sort of thing happens with other thigns too, if everyone listens to rock, I try pop, or classical music, that sort othing. And at toehr times I decide to do exactly what otehrs value, for instrance I listen the most popular radio stations in my area, I have programmed them by order of their audience size.

    Are these things type related?
    This isn't being authentic. It's being a reactionary individualist. Be carefull. Compulsive rebellion is just another form of enslavement.
    That term seems accurate, where do you think it might come from?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    it's called having a brain of your own. (;
    The thing though ist hat sometimes I want to be different just for the sake of being different.
    Why do you want to be different just for the sake of being different?
    Yes. I agree with this.

    You sound like you're trying too hard.
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mea
    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    it's called having a brain of your own. (;
    The thing though ist hat sometimes I want to be different just for the sake of being different.
    Why do you want to be different just for the sake of being different?
    Yes. I agree with this.

    You sound like you're trying too hard.
    You have no idea how REALLY TRULY hard I try, it was engraved in my head that I HAVE TO TRY HARD FOR EVERYTHING, it's called: GRUNG.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    dio, please stop whatever you're doing this minute to read the lyrics for "The Campaign for Real Rock" by Edwin Collins. i think it's the best song ever written under the genre of "pep talks for fake authentics"
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    dio, please stop whatever you're doing this minute to read the lyrics for "The Campaign for Real Rock" by Edwin Collins. i think it's the best song ever written under the genre of "pep talks for fake authentics"
    I can't find them
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    grung?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Sorry, grunge: Sonic dirt, crud, roughness. Muffled grittiness.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    So... you're saying that you have a loser mentality? And you try to be different than others as a way of "rejecting rejection", that is, you try to be different so that it won't be possible for you to fail at being accepted by others?

    Does this sound like you?

    Social/Self-pres

    This subtype can mimic type One when it comes to social values. They can be harsh critics of the current mores. They have romantic ideals of what the world should be like; reality always falls short. Ironically, this type can be the most withdrawn of the Fours. Social anxiety combines with the Four's shame issues to make this type feel that the pressure associated with "fitting in" is just not worth it. They are also the most likely of the Fours to intellectualize their emotions and in this way resemble type Five.

    The social instinct tends to give the personality a focus on being included, fitting in, or finding a way to make a valued contribution. This agenda conflicts with the Four's sense of being "different from" or "other than." The Four's need to establish a separate identity conflicts with the social instinct's drive towards inclusion. The social Four often deals with this dilemma by defining themselves as being outside the social system. By defining themselves always in terms of the system, even if it is to establish distance, this Four stays essentially tied to it. Fours with the social/self-pres stacking tend to acutely feel a sense of social shame at not quite belonging.

    When this subtype is reasonably healthy, they are often gifted critics of the prevailing culture. They develop true insight into social dynamics and have an eye for the nuances and subtleties of social interactions. Many Four writers are soc/self.
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    I just seem to think that I need to be different in order to be authentic/cool/etc. It's as if I feel that just being different has a value.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    I just seem to think that I need to be different in order to be authentic/cool/etc. It's as if I feel that just being different has a value.
    ......just be yourself?? Everyone is different.
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    Maybe being himself entails having the need to feel different.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    But he really sounds like he's trying to hard to be different. And it isn't real anymore.
    Err.. Don't really know how to put it. w/e
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    The desire to be different just for the sake of being different sounds maybe like a preference of Fe? Does anyone else feel this way? Maybe we can find a pattern.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    How is it Fe?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    The desire to be different just for the sake of being different sounds maybe like a preference of Fe? Does anyone else feel this way? Maybe we can find a pattern.
    ...I don't think it has anything to do with ... If it were related to any function, it'd be ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    How is it Fe?
    I'm not sure, which is why the question mark is there, but it seems like trying to be different just to be different could be about externally expressing some kind of emotional state and/or intentionally effecting how others react to him.

    On the other hand, it sounds like maybe he's self-conscious about it, which could mean he could have it as a valued function that he's weak at. Like INTj or something?
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeddler
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    The desire to be different just for the sake of being different sounds maybe like a preference of Fe? Does anyone else feel this way? Maybe we can find a pattern.
    ...I don't think it has anything to do with ... If it were related to any function, it'd be ...
    I said in the other post why someone might do it for Fe motivations, but I can see why someone would for Ne reasons too - to try out different things. Maybe he should talk about why he wants to be different - what he thinks it does for him.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    dio, please stop whatever you're doing this minute to read the lyrics for "The Campaign for Real Rock" by Edwin Collins. i think it's the best song ever written under the genre of "pep talks for fake authentics"
    I can't find them
    http://play.rhapsody.com/edwyncollin...ignforrealrock
    there's the song instead. i suggest blasting it.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I think the best case for would be that he sees himself in relation to how other people form their "images" (-Fe), and feels the need to separate himself from those images.

    If we're to go beyond simply Fe, there could be, perhaps, some function represented in what he sees people around him trying to present, which he doesn't value and is therefore "rebelling" against.

    Personally, I think the best argument for what he describes is, as Joy said, probably being an Enneagram 4, Social variant first.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    we have the same question. Is this type related?
    I found enneagram 4 very interesting, clearly more deep than 9 for me. Maybe Im ISFp with ennegram 4 sx/sc (I dunno about wings). IF is this related, maybe I have mistaken my type. Maybe I avoid conflict but in fact, I avoid the conflicts for not compete with others. I accept my envy (now) with naturality. I have more envy than pride and sloath. but above all things, to clear up, I wanted to be accepted with my originality without fall in conflict with others, that's way Im so peaceful with friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    The desire to be different just for the sake of being different sounds maybe like a preference of Fe? Does anyone else feel this way? Maybe we can find a pattern.
    I dunno, but the thought did cross my mind. Fi types tend to believe that people should define and follow their own ethical standards. At least some Fe types see this as being "against" society or whatever. I can't explain it better right now. Perhaps later.
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    I have, in the past, had the desire to be different just to be different. I'm not really sure if it was for effect (to make others notice me, either negatively or positively) or just for fun or what. I am amused when people think they have me pegged and sometimes I'll do something out of that stereotype. For instance, people probably think I'm a soccer mom (I have busy kids and I drive one of those suburban vehicles) but I would love to buy a Harley someday or a classic car and fix it up. That's a real part of who I am (thus authentic rather just different to be different) but I also enjoy it when people raise their eyebrows. I guess I have always had this desire for people to think "wow, she's an interesting person!"
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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