Relationships between introverts
If you've had this sort of relationship, what were the benefits? What did the conflicts consist of? Was it more favorable than being in an extrovert-introvert relationship? How did you keep communication alive? I apologize if this topic has been asked before.
I'd imagine 2 very crabby homebodies
I would imagine activity relationships would be ok
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
you'll usually find what the other says interesting, but strain to keep up with them. Both of you will want to listen to the other, but what the other presents will not be interesting as what you present. You both prefer company who likes to point things out, and say things with less personal bearing. I think this is the main dilemna-- with everything the introvert communicates, there is personal attachment and relevance, and when two introverts communicate these personal attachments strain them and like Rick says, they both consider one another to live in their 'own world.'
You both want someone to give attention to your thoughts, but usually the other introverts converts your thoughts into her structure of thinking rather than just accepting it and analyzing it as it stands. The extrovert will generally pay more attention to what you think, and will have much more to say that you find interesting because it has more connection with everything in the world, and less connection with them personally.
asd
Activity is pretty good, my girlfriend is an ISFj and we get along well. It certainly is named accurately, we tend to go out a lot. I like this relation because there's no pressure to say anything; however, it's sometimes frustrating because we'll literally be reduced to grunting and hand gestures if we dont force each other to "use words". Also, we have totally dissimilar interests, so conversation is usually quite shallow and tends to stay in the
zone, since my
will pwn her to sleep
There's a thread in gamma about ISFj sighing, it really does happen A LOT. Conflict usually comes about with her excessively changing her mind about mundane stuff, like what to eat; I've had to limit her to two mind changes about any one decision. Overall, activity is definitely the best introvert-introvert relation, except for maybe identity, but I've never met an INTp female with which to start a relationship...
shockingly similar to my experiences with your girlfriend.
asd
WTF?Originally Posted by heath
Nice sig btw, thanks for spreading my word.
Benefits: there is good understanding of the need for space and alone time. There is the ability to share life and space together without a lot of words. It's a quieter atmosphere. I don't know that it's better than extrovert-introvert but it's a trade-off. With my extroverted husband I sometimes feel like telling him to stop talking because he talks so much. On the other hand, he's fabulous in social situations and brings out a different side of me than would show if I were married to an introvert. He brings a bit of excitement to our life, socially. But if I were married to an introvert, I could also see the cozy sort of contentedness being fulfilling also. My husband desperately needs to be out and about and I do not.
Conflicts I've seen: probably the communication because so much of it can be non-verbal (which can be good but also can lead to miscommunication when assumptions are made) with each partner living in their head so much. I think though that if one partner draws the other one out, it can work. For example, both my parents are introverts but my mother is the more extroverted one who gets my dad to express himself and talk about things. In one of my friendships, I am always the one to draw the other introvert out and get him to talk. That could get tiring if I was married to him. But in another one of my friendships, the two of us sort of take turns getting the other one to share what's on their mind and it feels a lot more balanced.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I was in one, and I honestly can't think of any. You'll never leave the house.
I think two introverts would be more likely to work than two extravert's
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Thanks for that link. I think the reason many of my relationships haven't worked is because they've also been heavily introverted and expect me to be the one to initiate. Things are comfortable but fizzle fast as I find it impossible to be the initiator. Not sure how extroverts do it.
Two introverts work better than two extroverts? Orly?
I prefer introverts myself. It makes me feel good to initiate going out and doing things (not sexual though haha, Victim there) I also enjoy this feeling of stability it gives me knowing that I am sort of in control and that the other person is relying on me to keep the relationship going... I don't have to "wait on" the other person. I'd rather they go along with what I plan. This is probably why all extroverts prefer introverts.
Oh, and I kind of like loners.. I remember FDG saying that once! And it is very true.. I want an introvert all to myselfIt's kind of weird.. I don't have to worry about other people and I know I'm the only one
Two introverts would be pretty hard ... eek. There would be forced talking on one or either side to release tension and start a conversation. Awwwkward.
Two extroverts - Imagine 2 actors together.
Two introverts - Imagine 2 loners making small talk.
One of each -
Match made in heaven!
I'm curious as to how you don't interpret an introverts not initiating contact as a sign they don't want anything to do with you...? I think that has ruined a number of my relationships. I figure if they're interested, they'd initiate first. But then again, maybe they're thinking the same about me. I just feel like i'm harassing them if I call too much or ask them to do something and so that's how things fizzle out...
Good question! Well, I guess I just.. don't think about it? Well, that's a lie. I do think about it. I am just confident that I will be successful so why not take a risk? If I don't initiate, who will? It won't really get anywhere and if they like me, they will follow through... if they don't, they won't... but usually I already know that they are attracted before I initiate (intuition? signs?) so I don't really have fear or doubt.I'm curious as to how you don't interpret an introverts not initiating contact as a sign they don't want anything to do with you...? I think that has ruined a number of my relationships. I figure if they're interested, they'd initiate first. But then again, maybe they're thinking the same about me. I just feel like i'm harassing them if I call too much or ask them to do something and so that's how things fizzle out...
I don't call TOO much, but honestly, a lot of people who are interested will just sit back and wait like you.. just take a chance, I guarantee they will agree.
Yes, I agree with this.Good question! Well, I guess I just.. don't think about it? Well, that's a lie. I do think about it. I am just confident that I will be successful so why not take a risk? If I don't initiate, who will? It won't really get anywhere and if they like me, they will follow through... if they don't, they won't... but usually I already know that they are attracted before I initiate (intuition? signs?) so I don't really have fear or doubt.I'm curious as to how you don't interpret an introverts not initiating contact as a sign they don't want anything to do with you...? I think that has ruined a number of my relationships. I figure if they're interested, they'd initiate first. But then again, maybe they're thinking the same about me. I just feel like i'm harassing them if I call too much or ask them to do something and so that's how things fizzle out...
I don't call TOO much, but honestly, a lot of people who are interested will just sit back and wait like you.. just take a chance, I guarantee they will agree.
Usually I will just start a friendship if I'm interested. Then I'll try to catch signals of interest. Usually what I try to understand is if there's physical attraction, or not. If they give even just an hint that they're phyisically attracted, I have no problem initiating, and I can even be pretty damn insistent since I know that, before or after, they are going to say yes. Actually I can be downright pushy. This means that yes, almost all the girls I've dated are have been very strong introverts.
However, I prefer some simmetry once the relationship has started. It can be tiresome when the introvert has gotten used to me taking all the initiative, because I might start feeling like they aren't that interested in actually hanging out with me (since they don't ask themselves). In the past, I used to become slightly bitchy when this happened; now, I just tell them to ask me sometimes. Something like "Hey you decide next time we go out okay? Call me in 3 days"
I've only had a short relationship with an extravert - an ENFp-Fi girl. There too I took completely the intiative upon myself. We didn't hit off because the physical attraction faded off after a short time, but we're still very good friends.
I've seen a good number of introvert-introvert relationships. Most common ones being INTp-ISFj and INFp-ISTj; the second even more common than the first. Rarely I've seen INTjs and ISFps toghether. ISTj and ISFj is another common one. An unfortunate truth: the relationship easily breaks when one of the two parties becomes the object of attention of an extravert (extravert dual, more so) - of course, the exception being when the couple is married.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I dont know. See, you're a male so I think that's okay for you to take such an initiative. I feel like i'm turning them off when I pursue so much. For example, the last guy I was seeing seemed very interested but NEVER called and never set up dates. I asked him a few times to get together and he said he was too tired. So yeah, I gave up and now it's almost been a week since we've talked. I'm thinking "he's just not that into me" if he doesn't initiate. Ever heard of that book? I'm wondering if this even has to do with introversion...I guess I assume the man is supposed to be the one to start things. It doesn't feel natural to me.
i was thinking "he's just not that into you" before i got to where you said it. funny.
yeah men are socialized to be the initiators, so extravert men are doubly reinforced to initiate due to the socialization and due to their psychological make-up. we extraverts love drawing introverts out; it's like it's our job or something.
introverted men i would think would be in a bit of a quandary about this. they are socialized one way but their comfort level is another way. introvert men would either develop some really effective ways of getting extravert women to draw them out or would go against their nature and initiate, due to their socialization.
or i spose they could do neither, and be lonely.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Yeah i tend to think so. Introverts dont really need as much outside information and they seem more resilient. They also seem more likely to stay in an incompatible relationship than extraverts. When two extraverts get together they are continually socialising and meeting new people and doing things to piss off each other more in public. That was badly rationalised but thats what i think
I think this is one of the problems with how youth society functions. All the extraverts go out to clubs etc and they meet other extraverts, hook up and then end up cheating on each other / breaking it up quickly. Its the meat market. Of course its not always like that but yea.
Yeah its not always like that though. I never chase after a girl whilst my ISTp friends are constantly on the hunt
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Not sure, I have never really been in with another introvert. ISFps always seem like they are expecting something from me, INTjs and ISTjs are right out, because it would be too much I-Tj ness. INFps - not what I am looking for, and I feel the same about ISFjs it seems. ISTps - maybe, but too cold. I like F. INFjs I almost always get along well with.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I think the loosing track of time issue really is a gender thing. For some reason, I find it hard to picture a guy sitting by the phone counting the minutes til his girlfriend calls. I just don't think it happens. So here I am making an ass out of myself thinking I'll never talk to him again and that he hates me and i'm a horrible person and he calls an hour ago pretending as if nothing were wrong after a week of nothing. Men are FAR much more confusing than women. I will never even pretend to know what goes on in their minds.
I have been there. (A long time ago)
Guys feel that way about women.I just don't think it happens. So here I am making an ass out of myself thinking I'll never talk to him again and that he hates me and i'm a horrible person and he calls an hour ago pretending as if nothing were wrong after a week of nothing. Men are FAR much more confusing than women. I will never even pretend to know what goes on in their minds.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
This is true, but remember I score 99 on the extraversion parameter in most tests. Probably 1% of males score as high as me; so initiative doesn't necessarily come easy to everybody. In any case, yes, it's fair for you to expect initiative, but don't think men are particularly complicated. We do fear rejection sometimes, but when we're relly into somebody, the possible gain outwieghs the risk.
It definitely happens, when you're really into the girl.I think the loosing track of time issue really is a gender thing. For some reason, I find it hard to picture a guy sitting by the phone counting the minutes til his girlfriend calls.
UDP: I never felt that way in regard to girls. It's actually very easy to understand them, in my opinion. The hard part is coming to accept this understanding without wanting to change. I remember an argument with an old girlfriend, she said "You're not understanding anything of what I mean" me "You mean bla bla bla bla bla" her "Oh wow, so you understand perfectly!" me "YES BUT I DISAGREE!!"
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
That is word-for-word what my ISFp ex said about me. One is expecting active Fe, the other is expecting active Ne.
In terms of this topic, we must keep in mind that the line between introversion and extroversion is often blurred. *Enter Captain Obvious..* We all have extroverted and introverted aspects, and certain situations and individuals bring out the "extraverted" qualities of introverts, and the "introverted" qualities of extroverts. Introverts who desire human interaction and are not sought out (a situation I identify with quite well) must adapt to their circumstances and initiate contact with others to have meaningful relationships. Both introverts and extroverts know that to get what they need, adaptation is crucial. This social adaptation may be short-term (situational) or long-term (progressive), and may create a lasting change in the individual. Hence the interaction between nature and nurture.
As for activity relationships in particular, I think it works best when one of the partners acknowledges the deficient duality in the relationship and takes on the role of dual to the other partner. I've often tried to play the part of ENFj in the company of my ISTj (and INTj) friends, and sometimes it works, while other times it feels like I'm straining. Then again I could be ENFj, so it's a bit of a toss-up. But still, when I'm with a person whose needs I seem to understand, I try to fulfill those needs and make the relationship better, which hopefully makes both of us happy. Socionics has helped me a great deal in adapting myself to others' needs, and I try to keep its principles in mind in social situations.
INFp, Intuitive subtype, Enneagram 6w5
Back in school and on semi-permanent hiatus from the forum
Being very introverted myself, I think I may have always relied on extraverts to approach me.
Being in my late 30's....I am in the first serious relationship with an introvert.
I have to admit, I am VERY MUCH enjoying this relationship. For the first time I do not feel over stimulated, and I also am understanding some of the challenges my ex's spoke of with me.
We did come into this relationship realizing our challenges...and even laughed saying eventually down the road if we do end up in the same house we will need to install keyboards and monitors in every room to make sure we keep in touch.
I think we both have a bit of a fear of it slipping away because of our similar tendencies.
Though, it is nice to have someone understand so much about me naturally...
I dated an INTp for two years... my God, I've never heard anyone else complain as much as he did.
Never again will I date an INTp. They are annoying and have a very unsettling sense of humor.
EII
I'll tell you what
there is plenty wrong with me
but I fixed up a few old buildings
and I've planted a few trees.
Very well-stated. I am in a friendship now in which I have taken on (and been given) the role of extravert to his introvert and it's working really well. Interesting because he sought me out initially but now that our friendship is more established it feels comfortable and more natural for me to be the chatty, energized, initiating one.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Initiating in relationships between two introverts
While I actually tend to be drawn to and prefer other introverts for friendships, I have found lately that after awhile (say, a year or two) I get very tired of having to usually initiate in these relationships. To the point of it really hurting my feelings. I just don't see why it can't be 50/50. Maybe because I like a lot of chatting/contact, more than the other friend(s), I don't know. I have one friend (I think she's identical) where it's more 60-40 me or 70-30 and that's okay. I have another friend where it's like 95-5 me and that has been driving me crazy. With my brother it's maybe 85-15. I don't know, it just makes me feel like crying, like every single person in my life is merely tolerating me. Am I the only one who feels this way?
IEI-Fe 4w3
although i'm an extravert, i relate to this topic quite a bit since i tend to be drawn to introverts, which means i do waaay more of the initiating. i wouldn't hazard a guess at percentages, but it's definitely up there.
thing is, i start to feel insecure. like if i didn't initiate, would they? or i wonder if i'm forcing things too much.
but with other extraverts, there's like this control thing where i might not want to go along with what they want to do. so i kind of have to force myself to be more open to what their ideas are about what to do.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Yup. With my brother, we can go for months with neither of us initiating. Then if one of us does (usually me), the other replies and for awhile we can have a back and forth conversation (even over several days). Then it goes back to silence. This is okay with me. I mean, we're related and we have a good relationship. I don't usually feel too sad about it. But I do miss him and I sometimes worry that I'm bothering him. I worry a lot that I'm bothering people. That they are busy and with a *sigh* have to stop what they are doing and attend to my email or whatever. I think that if I didn't initiate, all of the friends I listed above would eventually initiate but I would have to wait what could be awhile. And then I feel like gee, they don't really need me in their life very badly so why do I bother in the first place. Thing is, I should be able to tolerate this, knowing what I know about introverts and knowing that my friends care. I guess although I know that they do, I don't always feel that they do. I mean, I'm an introvert too so why do I have to play the extravert in these relationships? The answer is: Because I care more than they do. I don't see myself as clingy but I am sort of an all-or-nothing person. I generally divide people into four categories:
1. real friends (whom I expect to talk to on a regular basis which to me means a couple/few times per week)
2. people with potential to become real friends--people I could see myself opening up to over time
3. acquaintances--people I know and talk to about surface things but with whom I don't really sense potential or interest for a real friendship
4. strangers
I do love that my husband is an extravert. Thank God. I never ever feel like I'm bothering him and he initiates probably 75% of the time.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I get that same feeling but these days most of my friends are people comfortable taking the initiative so I'm able to avoid this problem. Also it sounds hypocritical and it is, but I find that I'm loathe to take the initiative with introverts even if I like them and I know that they'd appreciate it. It just feels forced and I suppose that having maybe been spoiled in this regard I've come to see these everyday frustrations of maintaining certain friendships as meaning that the friendship is unnatural and wasn't meant to be. Of course my irresponsibility in this regard is never meant to be taken personally yet ironically it likely always is.
The introverted friendships I've maintained seem to work unconventionally yet quite well. I'll see the friend maybe only a few times a year but we'll share something profound. When there's no pressure to take the initiative it gets easier and I find with these people we both take part in it. i.e. every few months one of us will msg the other on msn and be like "we should chill", the other will then respond "yes we should blah blah blah" and then a few weeks after continuously agreeing and admitting how much we miss each other and discussing scheduling (purely in order to procrastinate while flattering the other's ego) one of us will get off our lazy asses and make it happen and the other will make sure that it's appreciated. The most important thing I think is that we accept each other enough that we no longer expect anything or depend on each other for anything except acceptance. Like honestly I've lost most of my introverted friends from the past (or did they lose me?) but I'm confident that the ones I've kept this way will never be lost.
In other words logical advice would be to use extroverts for your weekly friendship needs whilst maintaining a couple introverts for novelty excursions lol that sounded so bad but I'm too lazy to make it pretty.
INFp-Ni
"novelty excursions" That is hilarious. Yeah, I see your point. I really do. Why do I have no extraverted friends? Actually one of my introverted friends is very much on the line between E and I. She is pretty good at reaching out. So that works well. But yeah, the thing with my brother is very much the way you describe. When we do interact, it's usually great. Ironically, what you mentioned about not depending on anything from each other besides acceptance, well that is exactly what I value most from one of these friendships--acceptance. I should just shut up and appreciate it I suppose. And I do. I'm just greedy. Yeah, extraverts. Where do I go to meet them? Out, I suppose.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Almost all of my friends are extroverts.
EII
I'll tell you what
there is plenty wrong with me
but I fixed up a few old buildings
and I've planted a few trees.
Personally, with my ENTp friend when we first met 5 years ago he always initiated everything all the time. Now a days though I'm comfortable enough that I'll initiate things like 30% of the time at least. Also I'll do things on my own time to make up for it and show I that I appreciate him. i.e. we both love soccer and are addicted to reading soccer news on goal.com every day (mostly to procrastinate), so I printed out a schedule of all the important soccer matches in the next 5 months, gave it to him and told him that we're going to download and watch these games. Every weekend we are not allowed to go on goal.com until we've seen these games (to make sure we don't know the score beforehand cuz cable tv plays like none of them). Also I told him, in as sweet a way as possible, that if he cheated on me with goal.com I would have to kill him. It's funny sometimes we talk about how we've changed over the years and how we imagine we'll be when we're still hanging out 20 years down the road.
you just have to meet one and they'll lead you to throngs. you'll have to put up with going to a few social gatherings but you can use alcohol as a socially acceptable way to maintian the facade that you're having fun. This will lead to you getting to know people better and soon you'll have an extrovert bothering you to hang out in no time. so long as you maintain an occasional appearance at these gatherings you'll acquire more and more until you realize you can actually choose who you want to be friends with on your own time.And I do. I'm just greedy. Yeah, extraverts. Where do I go to meet them? Out, I suppose.
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