INFj-ESTj duality examples and stories (EII-LSE)
This reporter Justin Rowlatt (ESTj) was asked to make reports about trying to cut the CO2 emissions of his family. The beginning of the video has his wife (INFj?) chastising him for going to Jamaica to make some point he could have made at home. The report as a whole is a good example of a ESTj at work.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLgH-GkOczw[/youtube]
ESTj and INFj story
So I call my sister up to talk to her about something, and while we're on the phone she says, "Guess what? My car is fixed!" and I was like "Oh?" and she was like, "I mean totally fixed. Uncle Paul fixed my car! I was talking about how it costs me $16 a day in gas, and he said it shouldn't cost me that much. I told him that I work an hour away from your house (where she technically lives) and he said that it still shouldn't cost me that much. He asked me when the last time I had a tune up done, and I told him never. He said, 'So you're leaving your car here today, right?' and I was like, 'Sure?' Within five minutes he was on the phone with the father of the kids his daughter babysits for. He owns a garage. He took my car there and fixed a whole bunch of stuff on it. I don't even know how much it would have cost me if I would have taken it to a garage... probably at least $400 or $500." I was like, "Gotta love ESTjs." She laughed (she's very vaguely familiar with the theory).
I found this story funny because she was so thrilled that he had done all of that, but I probably would have been happy that I didn't have to spend the money on it, but sorta creeped out at the same time.
Yes, I'd be glad that the stress was gone (and I'd be very glad not to have to pay $500), but there would be a new kind of stress... an awkwardness... I guess I can't feel comfortable with someone that I'm not with doing that sort of thing for me. It takes a sort of intimate trust for me to be able to accept that sort of help without feeling weird or somehow obligated to be nice or something like that, not that I wouldn't otherwise be nice... I don't know, I would just feel very uneasy for some reason.
Wow... I just realized this is the exact same feeling that's made me hate Christmas since I was a little kid.
I have an ESTj friend, he's always a.. sucker for doing the biggest favors for women. Like it's his favorite kind of duty (lol doody) to do or something. I don't know if it's pure in his intentions or if he just wants to get laid.
I say sucker because chicks don't dig that sort of deep initiative free aid. It's his fault anyway, I've never seen him help any ugly chicks
Considering the ESTjs have an NF - INFj - as a dual, they can have odd problems with morality and integrity. Most of the time it is because their standards are so different from the norm COMBINED WITH being human, and yes, perhaps wanting to get laid or what have you. An ESTj generally needs an INFj's acceptance and appreciation of the caregiving ways, otherwise (just like any other type), it can feel like someone is not responsive to what you want to give them in a relationship, and you wonder what you are doing wrong - "why is 'being me' not working in this situation? Is something wrong with me?"
Each type should keep in mind that they are hardwired and "custom made" for their dual. Yes, this does not mean that you can only have good relationships with duals, but keep it in mind.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Sounds okay, if he had the money to do it, why not?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
ESTj-INFj duality video
I can't help it but post it under the Delta quadra section as well. I am currently obsessed with this drama serial.
Hanazakarino Kimitachihe
Male: Si-ESTj
Female: Ne-INFj
00:21-02:29 - ESTj protecting the INFj (disguised as a male) from the ESTp
02:32-05:36 - ESTj training alone and overexerting himself
06:02-09:30 - HA - INFj praising the ESTj and describing how he has influenced her positively and given her hope in life.
INFj feeling overwhelmed by a drunked ESTj.
Ok
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
?Originally Posted by UDP
As in, my typing is accurate?
*pats dolphin on the head* Not quite.
Considering that the nature of the video is actually a soap opera, a drama, I guess it makes sense. If they are delta rational couple, the girl is likely the Ne subtype. I'm not sure about the guy's subtype.
There is just so much sappiness there it is hard to say.
The actor playing the girl character seems Fe creative, or Fe valuing.
Because of the nature of the show, and my lack of understanding about the native culture on display, I don't know if the girl's dreaminess is just the norm. The way she sort of naively idealizes about things, and tells the story to her dog, sort of makes me think INFp - is she looking for a caregiver or an aggressor? But then again, it's a soap opera, so it's inherently sort of going to have a beta flair to it.
I would not use anything in the show as a prototype or clear example of anything. But if you want to say they are delta, maybe. I don't know anything about them other than those two videos, and again, what the culture is adding to or taking away from them.
Last edited by UDP; 02-23-2008 at 07:50 AM.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
My thoughts were similar to UDP's
EII-LSE episode
So you may know already that in one of the organizations I work for on campus, I am on the eboard and the president is EII.
Recently we were at an event where our club had to have a table set up, talking about who we were and other projects we are doing. The event was an expo for lots of other clubs and activities on campus at the time. I got there early to set up, so it was her and myself.
Right away I noticed that she seemed somewhat distracted - as far as I was concerned. She was so focused on all the people around here. There were a lot of people she knows, and yeah, she is definitely much better at giving personal attention to people than I am. But too much so, IMO. I guess I mean to say that what needed to be done was giving clear plans as to setting up our own table first, and then she could go out and do whatever she needed to do. But instead she got caught up in things, and drifted far away from the table. I did my best but I had to basically tell people to wait until she got back - other people from our club showed up, and I did not have clear instructions to tell them what to do because the president was elsewhere. She eventually came back
So I asked her, "ok, what do we need to do". She said a few things about setting up the table, which we mostly had done. And then started talking about other small things, or things with other organizations. And I was like "that's good, but, what does (our club) need to do, right now? Are we all set?". Eventually we went over things and figured out that we were. She seemed to be relatively indifferent about whether to make sure the table was set up, or other things were working, so I felt I had to make sure about things. Heh, I'm not really sure if she realized the importance of what I was saying, but, the bottom line is,our table got set up and managed and people did their jobs and everything worked out well - it was a successful event.
I don't have any real comments; it was interesting to see. Duals really DO operate in different spheres. It would be totally foreign to me to act how she did - focusing so much on whoever stopped by and requested her time, doing things for other people when our table wasn't even set up. But at the same time, I can see how I would need that sort of help at times.
Granted, it was an important day for our club, and for her especially, because there were a lot of important people, but it seemed to be a pretty clear example of being Fi and Ne in ego block, weak Se, even weak Ti, and valued Si, and weak Te - on her part.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Her monologue with the dog seems very-oriented imo. She is describing her personal motivations behind why she is very supportive of the guy and how he has influenced her life for the better. I don't associate her thoughts with dreaminess or naively idealizing things at all.
I thought she was been realistic by putting her fascination for the guy into action i.e. attempting to keep fit by going to the gym.
The show is Delta (with a bit of Alpha). From the first clip, the main characters (ESTj and INFj) seem more "calculated" in analyzing their inner thoughts and feelings, and are less likely to reveal their feelings to each other. I associate Beta shows as been more dramatic, expressive and with a bit of angst sometimes.
As for cultural differences, I finally understood why niffweed thinks I am INFp.
so the bad guy is SLE and the good guy is LSE because he doesn't smash the bad guy's head in. that's an oversimplification, but that's what i saw from the first three minutes of the first video.
obviously it all makes perfect sense. all hail eunice and her brilliant ability to interpret socionics. we must all forego our earthly pleasures and give them to eunice, in the hope that she will grant some of her infinite wisdom onto our own pathetic souls. all hail eunice, queen of earthworms!
Gah, I can't view any YouTube videos right now... the service seems to be down.
Yeah, I'm also having this problem.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
yeah. the site was down for a while. It seems to be working again.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
could you expand on this Eunice? if you don't feel like it though, that's cool.
this account is almost entirely devoid of any real information on how the two of you interacted or what socionics relation you have.
Are you certain she is EII. The ones I know really know how to focus on a task. SEI on the other hand may drift away and get destracted by others. Thats also very true about IEI.
Topaz
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
I agree. Can you talk more about this person, and why you think she is EII? Doesn't really sound like the way I would have behaved in the same situation.
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
No, you misinterpreted my rationale behind my typings. I have watched the complete series and hence I have a more complete picture of what was going on. Obviously I couldn't provide the links for the whole show here. Moreover, I didn't have any intention of differentiating who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. In fact, the SLE has good intentions in this segment but it was misinterpreted by the EII as a malicious attempt to put the LSE down.
In the first video, the background of that segment is about the LSE trying hard to get back as a professional youth high jumper but he wasn't able to leap across the pole successfully due to his psychological setback caused by an accident some time back.The SLE (a rival high jumper) decided to give him a surprise visit and tried to use reverse psychology by taunting the LSE to reach his potential again so that both of them could have a fruitful competition together. However, his actions did not sit on well with the EII who perceived it as negativity and thus it led to a conflict between both of them.
I was surprised that UDP saw the video as Beta when all I could see are. I feel that dreaminess and idealization are too often associated with
dkfjgldjgljl
Last edited by marooned; 07-29-2008 at 05:25 PM.
I am very certain that EIIs are more dreamy and unrealistic than IEIs. EIIs are more easily disappointed by reality as compared to IEIs. They tend to paint a "too perfect" (depending on the individual) picture of how their life should be like and when they don't reach it, they usually consider themselves a failure. You see a lot of EIIs indulging themselves in drama serials to meet their sense of perfection and often they expect reality to be like that even though it is not the case. EIIs are so stubborn that when they meet something that is contrary to their ideal world, they reject it totally without giving it a chance for consideration. In order not to be disappointed, they can deny themselves of going through an experience totally. It is as if they are living in their own world.
sakdfj
Last edited by marooned; 07-29-2008 at 05:25 PM.
That's because I'm was not asking you to type her; that was not the intent of this thread or that post.
For the record: every time I've posted a photo of her, people say EII. I had a thread about her in the past I think, and she was typed as EII. Although at first people said ISFp, to which I disagreed with. Note: I disagreed about that even back when I thought I was LII, also for the record.
But now whenever i post a photo of her its "hey, why don't you date that EII, UDP?"
I'm not saying this sort of behavior is absolutely typical in all situations for EIIs, or saying they are typically distracted.
PS: but of course (and apparently I have to say this so you think that I am not "not listening to you"), you are entitled to think she is whatever type you want.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Se PoLR doesn't mean that you withdraw whenever you meet conflicts. That's too stereotypical. INFjs can be very feisty when their personal convictions are threatened and they perceive that their loved ones have been given a difficult time. Moreover, INFjs aren't very certain people and tend to be unsure of themselves, especially the Intuitive subtype. Delta types can be quite wishy washy imo.
Sorry UDP. Didn't mean to say she is for sure not EII, or question your judgment, just that this specific case doesn't seem to indicate EII to me. This is not to say an EII could or would not act this way. Just that it doesn't seem like my typical behavior as an EII.
BTW: Why don't you date her?: ) J/K
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
fine. but i'm not completely sure what the purpose was.
yes yes. the brilliant minds on this forum have made a VI designation. and so hath the storm wrought the word of god. and on the pedastal these words appear: i am ozymandias, king of kings. look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. and on the seventh day petals fell in petaluma; lewis, be dead.For the record: every time I've posted a photo of her, people say EII. I had a thread about her in the past I think, and she was typed as EII. Although at first people said ISFp, to which I disagreed with. Note: I disagreed about that even back when I thought I was LII, also for the record.
But now whenever i post a photo of her its "hey, why don't you date that EII, UDP?"
Fuck, niffweed, that is genius.
I share Niffweed's sentiments about VI
What would you do, then, Christy?
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I would have felt an obligation to be at the table. I would not have left the table to talk to anyone, or have been "distracted" by social things. In fact I would have been "distracted" by the fact that I was not fulfilling my responsibility to be at the table, and probably would have seemed cold to the people who were trying to socialize with me. Even the physical location of my body to the table would worry me, to the extent that I may not even have wanted to leave for a legitimate reason like going to the bathroom. It may sound weird, but I probably would have asked you if it was "ok" for me to go to the bathroom, because I would be leaving you alone with the whole responsibility. What you described is almost the exact opposite of the way I would have acted, and probably would have annoyed me if I was in your position.
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
I see.
To clarify, the person in question was not just "socializing at whim", she was talking with other people very relevant to the day, and the expo itself. They were not arbitrary folks. A lot of them she knew personally, because they worked together on bringing about the expo. My president wasn't really just representing the group, she was very actively involved in the whole process, the whole expo.
Your interpretation of the situation seems to think she just went out to talk to a girl friend she knew or something like that, and that was not the case. I was not clear enough about that.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Oh. I see. Hmm. . . Ok. . .
Well, having though it over, even in that case, I am not sure it changes how I (personally, not speaking for all EIIs here) would have acted in the same situation. I am not big on socializing with a lot of people in large group situations, even when it is not socializing at whim, because I am sort-of shy. Usually, I will find one person and stick to them, or watch other people socializing while I hang back. In fact, even being the president of a club or group is probably not something I would do, precisely because I would have to do that sort-of thing (socialize and make connections with lots of people and be a very visible leader). I am sure not all EIIs are like me though. I am just avoidant. Anyway, I guess if I considered it my "job" to be socializing and talking with a lot of different people I may be able to bring myself to do it, but it would go against my natural inclinations.
PS I do not know any other EIIs in real life, only the ones on this forum, so, I don't have much experience with how other EIIs act. I am sure we are all very different. Actaully maybe you could talk more about this girl, so that I can have more of an idea of what she is like???
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
I found this in a pm I wrote:
"In school I spent my free time helping everyone else with their clubs (business and law clubs which one male friend was in), sorority events (my girl friend was in), homework (tutoring for anthropology), papers (helped people write their anthropology papers), and I helped a lot of people with their emotional problems. (People can get very depressed in college.) I didn't feel like I had time to be involved with any club I cared about! I probably have a lot of people who remember me as "nice", "cool", "helpful", and a good friend- but I don't have anything for my resume!!!"
In the cases where I was helping other people with their clubs, it was always behind the scenes, like one-on-one basis, or, I would accompany them to an event, where I would help do whatever was needed, almost like an assistant. I would always hangback socially, just working on the tasks that needed to get done.
The people I was helping always meant something to me personally, they were my best friends. I did not usually help them because I was particularly interested in their club specifically of even the work they were doing. I did it because I wanted to help them get a job done and they were too overwhelmed at the time to do it on their own.
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
a real example of LSE-EII duality
i PM'd this to eunice a few days ago and she hasn't responded, so i'll throw it out here:
the best example of an LSE-EII duality in popular culture that i know of is the interaction of jim and claudia from the movie magnolia
the latter video is a dramatic interpretation of the most important scene between the two so the characters are different; the only real videos that i could find of that particular scene were in what i think is italian.
that scene comes smack in the middle of the other video (at about 6:20) if you want to watch them chronologically.
basically, claudia is not a hugely typical EII; she has some problems with her life. jim i think is an excellent example of LSE. he's very pragmatic, unemotional, and honest and forthright in most of his advice, and from talking to claudia you can clearly tell his emphasis on interpersonal connection as well as his lack of confidence (Te blundering, if you will) in initiating it. one thing is that his is real Te rather than Se and Ti; his approach to helping claudia is to give her practical solutions rather than try to defend her or motivate her at all costs, which is something that seems apparent from the people you've noted as LSE. his demeanor in helping claudia with her problems is a really good indication of LSE; he demonstrates his value for Fi by acting the part of the extrovert, discussing his own problems with her and offering a "steady" emotional base of support for claudia and continuing to emphasize the instrinsic value and importance of their relationship.
this monologue from the same film seems to depict an LSEs standpoint and lack of confidence in Fi:
that's actually a really good one, probably one of the better examples i've seen. i agree on claudia being EII (now everyone disagree because claudia likes to party etc.)
what a nice scene! Claudia is such a likea-able character. Is she typical of INFJs? Or is she showing more emotion because of the drugs? It seems like INFJs are usually more held back with that quiet calm/not showing much emotion. Or am I wrong?
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
Those clips both attract and unease me. He is very nice, but I can easily see her ruining him. (I have not seen the movie.)
By the way, you're a dear, Niffweed. A caustic dear, at times, but one nonetheless.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
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