Relax and have fun with your 8th function - no worries

[Expat]

The 8th function is something that you are quite confident in but you don't take seriously, that is, you don't see it as a priority in your life and you think that those who do see it as a priority are misguided.

Therefore, the 8th function is connected to things you do in your free time for fun but that you don't really want to make a career of it, or spend too much time on it, and you think that those who do are "over the top". Also, unlike your quadra functions, even the base function, where you will resent criticism because you value them, you don't really care about what people say about your 8th function, because it's not important.

Since your 8th function is strong but it's your dual's PoLR, it can't be something you expect from your partner, or that you'd want your partner to spend much time doing, focusing on, or being good on.

So -- if you can think of something that you enjoy a lot as a hobby, but yiou wouldn't want to spend your life doing, and you don't expect others to like it (and would even be repelled by someone taking it too seriously), then, that something is likely connected to your 8th function.

[Expat]

For example.

is the 8th function of the ISTj and ISFj. Both types typically appreciate and enjoy good food, are often skilled in cooking as a hobby, are quite skilled and confident when having to dress well and can spot weaknesses in that regard in others. When having to set up something that has to be aesthetically pleasing, they are confident in their own taste and have fun doing it. However, it's not something that they typically would see as central to their lives or in a chosen profession - not typically.

[Blaze]

maybe more examples would help.

can't see Te stuff in my life at all.

[Joy]

Yep, sounds accurate. I think people can get irritated with their dual when they're fucking up with their PoLR, but it's expressed through their creative function so it's not too bad.

I've described it elsewhere as:

The eighth function is one that we tend to help others with, but we often don't realize it. We can use this function with ease and don't mind doing so, but we do not see it as being particularly important, and when we want to accomplish something we'll turn back to our second function.

[Expat]

can't see Te stuff in my life at all.

Reading non-fiction books or magazines for pleasure, in subjects not essential to your life or profession but that you find interesting?

[Expat]

Hmmm, do you think that writing novels as a hobby, but not being able to actually sit down for too long and take it too seriously because you feel like it's a bit of a waste of time really, would be an example of Ni as 8th function? Because so many times I think, "Hey cool, that would be a great idea for a story", and I sit down for a while and write something, but then I think "Nah, stop wasting your time with this day-dreaming and get back to the real world and your "real" work."

Could well be, yes.

[Expat]

I'll even add that it is the 8th and 6th functions, besides the common temperament, that hold super-ego relationships together.

For instance:

ENTj - ESFj: and
INTp - ISFp: and
ESTp-ENFp: and
ISFj - INTj: and

Etc

I will write a thread on super-ego modelling based on that.

[Joy]

super ego relations suck

I think the temperaments are the draw, and the fact that they seem to be good at everything you're not

[Expat]

I think the temperaments are the draw, and the fact that they seem to be good at everything you're not

Yes, but you also have to spend some time doing things together and have some common goals.

[Joy]

true

[discojoe]

The topic title is absolutely hysterical.

[UDP]

For example.

is the 8th function of the ISTj and ISFj. Both types typically appreciate and enjoy good food, are often skilled in cooking as a hobby, are quite skilled and confident when having to dress well and can spot weaknesses in that regard in others. When having to set up something that has to be aesthetically pleasing, they are confident in their own taste and have fun doing it. However, it's not something that they typically would see as central to their lives or in a chosen profession - not typically.

I am ok in regard to cooking, but I say I am very aesthetically skilled. I dress better than almost everyone I know. I also do not have a problem in terms of being aesthetic in terms of other people, once I find our what they like.



Could you list an example for an INTj / Ni for 8th function?

[Gilly]

can't see Te stuff in my life at all.

Reading non-fiction books or magazines for pleasure, in subjects not essential to your life or profession but that you find interesting?

There is one thing that I do kinda like that...

[Minde]

Hmmm, do you think that writing novels as a hobby, but not being able to actually sit down for too long and take it too seriously because you feel like it's a bit of a waste of time really, would be an example of Ni as 8th function? Because so many times I think, "Hey cool, that would be a great idea for a story", and I sit down for a while and write something, but then I think "Nah, stop wasting your time with this day-dreaming and get back to the real world and your "real" work."

Woah, that's funny you say that, because I do that quite a lot, too.

[ScarlettLux]

The topic title is absolutely hysterical.

LMFAO, I agree.. when I read this post I burst out laughing for a good 10 seconds.

But on topic, what would Fi 8th function result in?

[Joy]

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...overted_ethics

The individual tends to see as rather pointless digressions or explorations of one's inner feelings in relationships if those are not obviously supported by the external emotional atmosphere, despite being quite able to understand them. "You shouldn't worry about him really liking you or not, he's always so nice to you and making you laugh and helping you". The individual does understand well inner feelings between individuals, even when unstated, but tends to regard them as intrinsically changeable; so discussions on their state, in what he sees as a particular time or situation, are not taken too seriously.

[ScarlettLux]

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Introverted_ethics

The individual tends to see as rather pointless digressions or explorations of one's inner feelings in relationships if those are not obviously supported by the external emotional atmosphere, despite being quite able to understand them. "You shouldn't worry about him really liking you or not, he's always so nice to you and making you laugh and helping you". The individual does understand well inner feelings between individuals, even when unstated, but tends to regard them as intrinsically changeable; so discussions on their state, in what he sees as a particular time or situation, are not taken too seriously.

Hmm, that doesn't really sound like me. I actually care a lot about what's "underneath" the emotional atmosphere of any relationship. I tend to know who are my "true" friends and I don't really care for that whole posturing thing of .. although I do it so much and I am always very friendly to strangers. I don't know how to describe it .. hmm *thinks* I guess I am just saying I do worry if people like me or not, well, mostly in a romantic relationship and I need them to discuss their inner feelings.. even if they are always nice, etc. I need to know for sure the truth of their feelings.

[anndelise]

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Introverted_ethics

The individual tends to see as rather pointless digressions or explorations of one's inner feelings in relationships if those are not obviously supported by the external emotional atmosphere, despite being quite able to understand them. "You shouldn't worry about him really liking you or not, he's always so nice to you and making you laugh and helping you". The individual does understand well inner feelings between individuals, even when unstated, but tends to regard them as intrinsically changeable; so discussions on their state, in what he sees as a particular time or situation, are not taken too seriously.

Hmm, that doesn't really sound like me. I actually care a lot about what's "underneath" the emotional atmosphere of any relationship. I tend to know who are my "true" friends and I don't really care for that whole posturing thing of .. although I do it so much and I am always very friendly to strangers. I don't know how to describe it .. hmm *thinks* I guess I am just saying I do worry if people like me or not, well, mostly in a romantic relationship and I need them to discuss their inner feelings.. even if they are always nice, etc. I need to know for sure the truth of their feelings.

there ya go...now you know what you're 8th function hobby would be...worrying about if people like you or not and trying to get them to discuss their inner feelings with you :wink:

[Joy]

What about this one?

This is manifested as a skepticism about, or reluctance to decide on, the status of a deeper personal bond in a relationship between two individuals in the absence of signs in external emotional expression that should reflect that status. For instance, the individual will be inclined to regard as "loveless" or lukewarm the relationship of a couple who do not obviously display their mutual affection and remain rather subdued in their emotions in the presence of others.

The individual understands discussions or explorations of one's own inner feelings regarding other individuals but finds them less interesting and relevant than those focusing on one's emotional state in the same situation.

[tcaudilllg]

Momentarily going off-topic:
ENFj feelings are instinctual: they feel them and believe other people's feelings are equally real. ENFjs do not try to escape their feelings; indeed, they are aware of their feelings most of all. It is the rock they cling to through everything that happens, because it is their feelings alone they *know* to be true.

INFps really don't give a damn what people feel. If it's not something they've created in people then it's not relevant. To INFp, if people really paid attention to what they felt, then they would not change. The world would be little more than a set of static properties that "exist" without actually experiencing anything, a cold abyss of eternal constancy.

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."

[ScarlettLux]

What about this one?

This is manifested as a skepticism about, or reluctance to decide on, the status of a deeper personal bond in a relationship between two individuals in the absence of signs in external emotional expression that should reflect that status. For instance, the individual will be inclined to regard as "loveless" or lukewarm the relationship of a couple who do not obviously display their mutual affection and remain rather subdued in their emotions in the presence of others.

The individual understands discussions or explorations of one's own inner feelings regarding other individuals but finds them less interesting and relevant than those focusing on one's emotional state in the same situation.

Okay, yes. That does fit me. However, I don't actually have that much trouble with those who aren't emotionally expressive, as long as they tell me in one on one situations.. I couldn't really care for that overly mushy showy PDA in front of people. Actually that kinda grosses me out. If there is a true bond it really does not need to be shown .. it is not "loveless"... btw that's a great MBV album

[Expat]

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Introverted_ethics

The individual tends to see as rather pointless digressions or explorations of one's inner feelings in relationships if those are not obviously supported by the external emotional atmosphere, despite being quite able to understand them. "You shouldn't worry about him really liking you or not, he's always so nice to you and making you laugh and helping you". The individual does understand well inner feelings between individuals, even when unstated, but tends to regard them as intrinsically changeable; so discussions on their state, in what he sees as a particular time or situation, are not taken too seriously.

Hmm, that doesn't really sound like me. I actually care a lot about what's "underneath" the emotional atmosphere of any relationship. I tend to know who are my "true" friends and I don't really care for that whole posturing thing of .. although I do it so much and I am always very friendly to strangers. I don't know how to describe it .. hmm *thinks* I guess I am just saying I do worry if people like me or not, well, mostly in a romantic relationship and I need them to discuss their inner feelings.. even if they are always nice, etc. I need to know for sure the truth of their feelings.

That description of as 8th function has to be improved, I wasn't sure how to phrase it, the point is not that you should not care, the point is that with IP irrationality and Fe>Fi in a dynamic way, the concept of static Fi bonds as for the Fi IJ laser beams is seen as pointless, and it is pointless to try to find them as distinct from the dynamic Fe.

[Gilly]

Yes, that does need to be edited...

[Exodus]

can't see Te stuff in my life at all.

Reading non-fiction books or magazines for pleasure, in subjects not essential to your life or profession but that you find interesting?

Yeah, now that I think about it, I'd say that at least 80% of the material I read is nonfiction.

Yeah, I hardly ever read fiction.

The 8th function is something that you are quite confident in but you don't take seriously, that is, you don't see it as a priority in your life and you think that those who do see it as a priority are misguided.

Therefore, the 8th function is connected to things you do in your free time for fun but that you don't really want to make a career of it, or spend too much time on it, and you think that those who do are "over the top". Also, unlike your quadra functions, even the base function, where you will resent criticism because you value them, you don't really care about what people say about your 8th function, because it's not important.

Since your 8th function is strong but it's your dual's PoLR, it can't be something you expect from your partner, or that you'd want your partner to spend much time doing, focusing on, or being good on.

So -- if you can think of something that you enjoy a lot as a hobby, but yiou wouldn't want to spend your life doing, and you don't expect others to like it (and would even be repelled by someone taking it too seriously), then, that something is likely connected to your 8th function.

I think that makes sense. Writing poetry would be how I use Ni, it's among the few things I do purely as a hobby (actually, I described this in my video).

[Expat]

there ya go...now you know what you're 8th function hobby would be...worrying about if people like you or not and trying to get them to discuss their inner feelings with you :wink:

Well, I think that the whole concept of "8th function as hobby" is correct, but as everything in socionics, it's helpful not to take it so literally as far as the word "hobby" is concerned.

Regarding as 8th function, the problem is that for many reasons is one of those subjects that immediately heat up discussions. My phrasing wasn't perfect, but I would like then to hear suggestions for improvement, in a way that is consistent with the fact that Fe IPs are the duals of the Fi-PoLR Ti EPs. If ENTps and ESTps have Fi PoLR, then, Fi is something that is not very important for ISFps and INFps. What are then the implications of this?

[anndelise]

there ya go...now you know what you're 8th function hobby would be...worrying about if people like you or not and trying to get them to discuss their inner feelings with you :wink:

Well, I think that the whole concept of "8th function as hobby" is correct, but as everything in socionics, it's helpful not to take it so literally as far as the word "hobby" is concerned.

Regarding as 8th function, the problem is that for many reasons is one of those subjects that immediately heat up discussions. My phrasing wasn't perfect, but I would like then to hear suggestions for improvement, in a way that is consistent with the fact that Fe IPs are the duals of the Fi-PoLR Ti EPs. If ENTps and ESTps have Fi PoLR, then, Fi is something that is not very important for ISFps and INFps. What are then the implications of this?

It was a joke, Expat.

I'm more curious as to how one would determine 8th as a hobby vs 1st or 2nd as normal behavior.
For example, when people come into the forum and post a what's my type thread, and they list the kinds of things that they enjoy doing, how would the forum know that xxx shows 1st/2nd in the ego, but yyy shows "8th as a hobby".

[Jonathan]

This is a very good topic. We haven't had enough discussion about the "id" block, and I think Expat's treatment of it here is much more accurate than what is often said about it. (Many people assume that the "id" functions are completely distasteful.)

I have noticed in particular that ESIs' relation to aesthetic things is just as Expat noted above. Also, I think ILIs often get a kick out of dreaming up weird ideas, crazy inventions, and so forth. [EDIT: Actually, that's 7th function, sorry...but still the "id" block.]

Of course, this kind of information, like many things, while good for understanding people one has typed correctly, may be difficult to use to help type by. One of the challenges here is that sometimes the distinction between hobby and one's main focus or passion can be kind of blurry. A lot of people get very deeply into their hobbies; and people's careers don't always reflect their true passions. So it can be kind of hard sometimes to find out which block is one's "main" one.

And that leads to another issue. If a person develops a lot in the "hobby" area, then that person may begin to take on aspects of the other quadra, right? (E.g., when in that state of mind, the person might interact with members of the opposite quadra in a similar way to someone of that quadra).

[Gilly]

O_O;

I fail to remember when Fi in the way it is addressed in that description became unimportant to Fe/Ti types. It seems to suggest that Fe/Ti types have no interest in a relationship unless the emotional atmosphere is in agreement. I would say, rather, that they have no interest in being in "relationship mode" or "couple-y" when they are in a group with which that kind of behavior is not conducive. I don't think anyone is just plain old not interested in relationships with people just because the atmosphere says they shouldn't be Sounds like sociopathy to me.

[Expat]

I'm more curious as to how one would determine 8th as a hobby vs 1st or 2nd as normal behavior.
For example, when people come into the forum and post a what's my type thread, and they list the kinds of things that they enjoy doing, how would the forum know that xxx shows 1st/2nd in the ego, but yyy shows "8th as a hobby".

I think that the trick is that you ultimately don't really care about your 8th function. You do about our 1st and 2nd.

[Expat]

I fail to remember when Fi in the way it is addressed in that description became unimportant to Fe/Ti types. It seems to suggest that Fe/Ti types have no interest in a relationship unless the emotional atmosphere is in agreement. I would say, rather, that they have no interest in being in "relationship mode" or "couple-y" when they are in a group with which that kind of behavior is not conducive. I don't think anyone is just plain old not interested in relationships with people just because the atmosphere says they shouldn't be Sounds like sociopathy to me.

First, that description was specifically about Fi as 8th function.

Second, what you just said isn't what I said or meant in that description.

Third, what you are saying is that the relationships on one-to-one level will always lose focus when there is a prevailing group atmosphere?

[Gilly]

Is there any way you could rephrase it to explain? Because that's the way I read it, and I'm not really sure what else it could be saying.

I don't think they lose focus, but I think they aren't expressed or preferred over the group atmosphere. It's like not making PDA or little side conversations about exclusive topics while with a group of people.

I definitely disagree with your example: "He does nice things for you so you shouldn't worry about whether or not he really likes you." That's just downright unhealthy.

[Expat]

I don't think they lose focus, but I think they aren't expressed or preferred over the group atmosphere. It's like not making PDA or little side conversations about exclusive topics while with a group of people.

That's too superficial and, again, not connected specifically to the 8th function.

[Gilly]

I wasn't implying that it was related to the 8th function. I was addressing what you said about Fi "not mattering" to Fe/Ti types.

How is it superficial? It's definitely a manifestation of Fe>Fi...

[Expat]

I wasn't implying that it was related to the 8th function. I was addressing what you said about Fi "not mattering" to Fe/Ti types.

I meant it specifically for Fe IPs, and if they have Fi PoLR types as their duals, it can't matter to them, can it?

How is it superficial? It's definitely a manifestation of Fe>Fi...

Because it addressed a very detailed behavior in a fleeting social situation, it's not wrong but doesn't explain things much.

[Gilly]

Fi matters to me...I dont think Fi "doesn't matter" to Fi PoLR types. Does Si "not matter" to you?

The PDA thing is, perhaps, too detailed, but not having exclusive conversations or intentionally excluding others is definitely a manifestation of Fe>Fi.

[Expat]

Fi matters to me...I dont think Fi "doesn't matter" to Fi PoLR types. Does Si "not matter" to you?

In relation to everything else, not, it doesn't -- it doesn't get priority.

[Gilly]

Well, I certainly wouldn't say that I ignore Fi. When it's brought to my attention, it's something I care about, whether or not I'm always thinking about it.

[Expat]

I have changed that bit in the wiki, I was never satisfied with it myself.

But as for "ignoring" or not -- well, is perhaps the central function in socionics, which can be seen as an almost-obsessive attempt by a Fi PoLR person to use her own strong functions and to find a way to understand what was eluding her. So, to that extent, of course Augusta cared about Fi.

It is at the same time different, and as in socionics, people of different types see it differently -- people don't like being told that they don't care about , or about if seen as understanding logic, or about etc. Yet it remains clear that there is a difference as to how much you care about them, and the people who have those functions as their base see it most clearly of all. So there is no escaping that, from the point of view of a dominant, Fe IPs and Ti EPs don't really care about .

[Gilly]

Ok, so relatively. But I don't think blatant disregard for relationships should be part of any description, or be assumed to be inherent in any type.

[Rick]

My 8th function: I like to make funny faces and imitate sounds and the way other people talk when I'm in a playful mood. When I do it spontaneously people laugh and I feel cool .