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Thread: Best teachers: round two (Update)

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    Default Best teachers: round two. (Update)

    I thought I had read that the best teachers are your look-a-like/business relations (anyone know why these relations would be called "business")? Then I saw that socionics.com had a question and answer that said that informal research seemed to show that identicals were the best teachers, and that your mirror is a good teacher.

    Today I was taught by someone I think is an ESTj, which is my illusionary. Now, I had also read that one's contrary is the worst teacher. So I found it a little confusing that an illusionary could be so helpful to me. She spoke in a way that was different and it seemed concrete, which made things easier to understand. I recall an ENTp teacher who I felt that I didn't have to think to understand what he was saying.

    The update is this. I was wondering if maybe identicals and mirrors don't make the best teachers because when you're with them you get the urge to work together and to create together. The role of a teacher is to teach you something you don't know. But it seems that creating and doing work together presupposes that you are already both competent in the subject. What do you think? Any experiences back this up? Anyone disagree?

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    identicals are the best teachers, because they can teach you the solutions to the problems you both share.

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    i have found mirrors to be great teachers.

    i have an intj family member who recommends books to read - i always find these books compelling and great reading which changes my point of view significantly.

    i don't know many of my own type who have been my teachers, so i can't say.

    i get into great discussions with illusionaries, though, they have a point of view in which something brand new is always coming up for me.

    i had a contrary supervisor once who i had great admiration for and who taught me how to design programs - this has stuck with me for years now.

    i can't learn from my socionics supervisor. what they have to teach is way too far out of my reach. i have learned from benefactors mostly how to be organized.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    identicals are the best teachers, because they can teach you the solutions to the problems you both share.
    I think you would have to qualify that. I think most literature out there says that identicals cannot help each other with their problems because you both share them, which is enforced by real life in my experience. I suppose they could say how they overcame them. This could also only apply in real life situations and not to teach theory. I have not had an INTj teacher before.

    My thought here is that even though your minds can understand each other best (thought processes), it may not foster the best teaching environment because of what I said earlier. But, now i am thinking that the urge to move ahead only occurs with mirrors...

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    This is supposed to have been written by Augusta:

    Identical Relations

    Relations identity, or identification

    They can be described as classic about a father and son, mother and daughter. The cohesive family in which the husband and wife have complementary types of identity, the identity of such parents are often. Daughters often grow up with the same types of mental mother and father-sons.

    Relations identification, and attitudes additions needed in the formation of individual children : no one can be the best teacher than identical, and better educated than complementary. Therefore, in families where parents complement each other, each of the children one of them could be the identical, other complementary. These families provide optimal conditions for the education and socialization of children.

    The complementary type acts directly on the subconscious, in the formation of habits and behavioral patterns. A person with one parent who has a complementary type of mental illness, assuming its validity and relevance to humans. He was confident that, in his childhood, and life-will understand and love in the family and in the future workforce. Parents with a complementary type psyche give children confidence in their involvement in the affairs of other people, their value to them, learn work skills, provide a sense of confidence in its duality, and therefore fully capable of individuality.

    Individuals with the identical type of IM in a deliberate act (as other people, form a conscious ideals, goals or methods. Who grew up with the parent identical personality type using them as road signs. Was his road more confident, much less wandering and lost, more specifically implementing their intellect.

    At present, and still the stereotype of families with children is largely mother. This creates a lack of identification and adapted to life in the community. In such families :

    -tem children, the type of mentality is the identical type of mothers (often daughters), the family lacked the supplement. They are not used to having one of the parents to complement the type of mental illness can know their thoughts and wishes, not accustomed to the heat, cold and suspicion grow, not able to work. They have a tendency instrumentalnost and all life's problems to deal with on their own, nervous tension, heightened the pursuit of intellect, keen sense of social prestige, the absolute social ambitions;

    Those children, the type of psyche which is complementary to the type of mother, perfectly aware of its value in informal human relationships. We are confident that should be loved, that they, like all other people, it is love. But to underestimate their intelligence, they weakened the desire for it.

    Relations identity extremely productive in learning. No other treatment do not have the high rate of availability described material. But the relationship between teacher and student kratkovremenna. It may have something to teach and learn. Then begins a calm manner. Indeed relations identity without sentimentality. Even if it is a relationship between people who have relationships with others of different. Cross transactions do not occur. In many respects, these partners similar to the electrical charge. They pull each other until one of them charged, and the other neutral. And when the two charged each has its way. (Except when it is held together by a common cause, as they are self - ns units, and parts of a whole. Then it is a very quiet, productive cooperation, which is never empty because of disputes cup. They too accurately assess each other. At a time when one of them is odd, is that, that the case be dealt with or the child's best interest.)

    Relations calm people equate such people understand each other poluslova. If they settle an uninhabited island, there is now a real danger that they razuchatsya said. Indeed, if what one sees, sees another that took one understands the other, what to say and to whom?

    Writers and artists from the same type of IM reader and viewer perceived as people with sensitive intelligence that can penetrate into the heart of things. But no mysterious cover not disrupted, no secrets had been opened. Simply, we were not where they were, and did not see what they saw. Therefore, individuals with identical type of IM is not valued as artists, or other means to decorate life, but as researchers, opening up new horizons.

    As seen people with identical structure IM in a meeting? This is very reminiscent of a sense perception clean windows. Provided that you are accustomed to dusty. You live somewhere in the fifth or 10th floor and was noticed that the window is covered with long gray haze that it distorts the color of heaven. And then you see his strange and dangerous pobleskivayuschim transparent. It is certainly better than the old, but also something worse, it does not protect. And you even a little afraid to come closer.

    About the same felt when meeting with people like her. It iis not better or worse than the other. But it is transparent to you and you to him transparent. They pretend to be. OK impossible. Says it simple, "" your words that at first even strange. The sense vseponimaniya to business communication and preventing empty, when in fact nothing to say.

    In a society often wear a mask. With regard to the identity of this mask sense. More often than not, it seems only thought sad attempt to conceal its weakness and failure. (Interestingly, in the mirror to mask the same sense, but there it is like the call for help.) If you want, you help him. But if you can not or have simply do not want it fully recognizes your right to choose. Probezhavshaya you shadow of his more outspoken than other long-distance wrangling. He knows better than any other, in what situation you put what benefits or spiritual calm denies. He himself would be so likely to be received. This is another great you can appear or failure. It just people and nothing more. Something you have yes, something you do not want or not want, how they want, but what you have achieved, and equally to what is not reached, it did not change in the eyes of your essence. Perhaps because both to a certain extent and it is available. Important is the final result, a distance that can be in one direction or the other go. Man measure their efforts and distance barriers, which he overcomes towards the goal, not the result. And this is not how to lead and where the road led. The one not find assistants, and others have mykatsya alone, the same fate of all types.

    If a human life on earth missions, each new generation is its continuation. Although the word "mission" first may seem too lofty, given a bloody history, speaks to us of the bitterness of substance proudly call themselves Homo sapiens, and indeed unashamedly destroying living and inanimate nature. Even its kind. The only thing in our eyes rehabilitate rights act, is our knowledge that it was not alone swami and self units, but only part of it. Composite human intellect or sverhorganizma named sotsionom us. Part, which, however, still had to bear the burden of responsibility for all humanity and a sense of guilt because of its inability to bear the burden, because they do not deal with it. This is a contradiction between what people knew about or thought about, and what it really is. But if nothing changes and with the advent Socionics, it is proof that the idea of differentiation psyche is not justified.

    Continuity mission in the culture. One generation begins, another develops, complements ends and begins again. So here we are now confronted with an interesting phenomenon. In evaluating new truths discovered in previous generations. Anyone who has opened, along with an opening not yet noticed something lying "at the same depth". Or made public the truth less precise than it was 50 years later. It does not matter whether Darwin, Einstein, Freud, Jung or anybody else. It is important for us to one type of identity in their work does not see "mistakes". Sees successfully launched and unfinished work, which needs to be addressed, which should go to complete and improve further. Any incorrect or not accurate result is not seen as a mistake or deceive the author as well as an important step towards the development of science as the best conclusion from the available material at that time. He did not shitty or zhalok. If we have something and wonder, the only way he has made in such difficult circumstances of life. Where he found the time? We are aware of how difficult and complex was his life. Not zloradstvuem about what this so-called "genius" made "errors" that he had been unable to immediately resolve to overcome now struggling dozens of institutions and spreading throughout the world.

    However, keep in mind that only people with the same type of mental illness may go to the teachers and to test it. Even more : people with the identical type did not take on faith that made its predecessor.
    Mirror Relations

    Mirror relations

    Intellectual these people because of the identity of the two most advanced functions are very similar in many ways. But one introtim, another ekstratim. Moreover, it was their third different functions.

    All of this entails significant differences. Relations are exacerbated by the fact that in contrast to the full equate them has a strong pull. The reason for this power-pulse in the opposite direction of the active IM ring, which apparently is as hard to find a better friend J. Hence mutual propensity "terrible" in the unanimous and better spiritual properties of the other.

    Draw these people to each other, perhaps especially with the complications and risks of people because of a lack of close friends to complement the type of IM lacks a sense of importance. When he knows little, little feeling and not rely on anyone when it is used to seek support for himself and his fellows, and not in addition to, and trying to get myself in their social values. The second lot of similarities, and there are also missing himself. For ekstratima is confident introtima a (spiritual balance, unperturbed, the ability to protect its internal I). For introtima - ekstratima boldness and courage in the outside world. Sometimes this leads to severe and difficult love, immaturity marriages, in which both have similar talent and the lack of supplements. Hence the emergence of unpleasant desire to reform and improve the partners. They constantly or jealous of each other (sensors), or feel a lack of attention-at least in the form of jealousy (intuitive). Too it seems : hard and break, and coexist.

    Interestingly, in cross transactions of their relationship they have. In any case, we would not have witnessed such events, even when people izoschryalis in bullying over the other. Perhaps because they have no ability to affect a function kommunikanta underdeveloped. The so-called hidden agenda message is not reaching them, "otskakivaet."

    Example of family life : "Anya," shouted from the kitchen INTUITIVNO-ETICHESKY EKSTRATIM-kettle has begun. Anh, ETIKO-INTUITIVNY INTROTIM, knowing that the husband of this important event it signifies, rather than turning the gas itself, poses case, which was, with an expression of the suffering comes to the kitchen and silently turn off gas.

    It was a different wife with a complementary type of IM, that is SENSORNO-LOGICHESKY INTROTIM that for there to tell his wife what actions are reasonable. It is a tribute to walk : "Vyklyuchi", and all would have been happy. Married to the fact that without a husband yet, found a husband that his wife can always be relied on as INTUITIVNO-ETICHESKY EKSTRATIM not taking responsibility for the objective processes and full responsibility for individual actions, and for the methods of action : shifts in the other.
    Business Relations

    The business relations

    Partners understand sufficiently well each other, they respect, they can successfully collaborate, although they place different purposes to themselves and reach by their different means. Because of the similarity of the second function they are more similar to each other, than with the relation superego. But, possibly, because of this they too hope for each other and they expect complete mutual understanding that finally it is possible to lead to the disappointment.
    By Shepetko:
    Mirage (Illusionary Relations)

    The title accurately reflects the content of the relationship.

    A mutual support, attitude, support. Relations are good to work together, but until he entered private interest, is not something to do. Suddenly interaction, conversation can naporotsya ignorance, or ignoring the views of the other, that is, отношение может стать конфликтным.attitude can be a conflict. If you focus on that relationship, they could be called Polupogasheniem.

    So in those respects may quarrel and because of trifles. But in general is good relations, and conflict soon forgotten.

    If there is support for the Supplement, but do not understand the behaviour of a partner, there is a point of conflict are identified and exacerbate this misunderstanding. Slightly more than activation, it lacks the qualities of Independent States.
    By Gulenko:
    Mirage (Illusionary Relations)

    This attitude relaxation. None of iitertipnyh relations do not relax and not rasholazhivaet partners, as mirazhnoe. The "mirazhnym" partner pleasant recreation or discuss extraneous matter. Man falls however, dekontsentriruetsya becomes a fluid mirage. This partner does not want to deal with.

    Business co-operation in this difficult relationship. It is not clear explanation of each others. What seeks partner, it seems insignificant, not worthy of attention. Expect from each other completely different activity. The other one cools in his business designs. Partners as if they were playing broken telephone. Good communication from the sometimes can be very funny. It recalled humorous dialogues Shirvindta (OR) and Derzhavina (IEE), and when one has unceremoniously srezaet another.

    Introvert in this couple is trying to get rid of attempts ekstraverta, to impose their views, wants a degree of autonomy. Ekstravert also wants to make introverta "normal" people. Both are each other's ability to critically.

    Discord in relationships are generally short. Partners dragged each other. At times, relations are very good and kind. This happens when they said little on specific topics, and doing more work together. Discussion of the results of work completed successfully encouraging, but further attempts to take up the case again facing the same difficulties. But one can hardly accomplish much because of the impossibility to come and work at full capacity.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Business relations are prolly called 'business relations' because you get on with each other on a day-to-day basis - as the description says, they understand each other, but have different ways of doing things.

    With Illusionary relations, the two types are less likely to see each other as rivals - as with a Business relationship between a ENTp and a ESTp for example. An Illusionary relationship, such as a ENTp with a INFp would seem more complimentary - according to the description, they get on well with each other. Although they have conflicts, they are easily resolved and forgotten. The description makes this kind of relationship seem superficial - neither type understands the other in great depth, but they seem to have a 'general' understanding.
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    I think business stands for the distance in the relationship. The way you approach the other person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    This is supposed to have been written by Augusta:

    Identical Relations

    Relations identity, or identification

    no one can be the best teacher than identical, and better educated than complementary. .
    does this mean that the best teacher is the dual then because you would actually be "educated" best? See where I'm confused?

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    It appears to be Identicals that are the best teachers - teachers do teach you what you don't know, but just because someone is your Identical doesn't mean they can't teach you. They teach you valuable lessons on how to live just by living - you are possibly less able to learn from your mistakes, because they are a part of you - your Identical can show you different solutions to problems that you weren't even aware of - these solutions are also suitable for your way of doing things.
    EII-Ne
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    Quasi-identical is probably the worst with regard to teaching, simply because you can't understand what they say.

    Beneficiary is another one because they bore you with "useless" information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quasi-identical is probably the worst with regard to teaching, simply because you can't understand what they say.

    Beneficiary is another one because they bore you with "useless" information.
    Agreed. And I do think look-a-likes make good teachers, especially if of the same subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quasi-identical is probably the worst with regard to teaching, simply because you can't understand what they say.

    Beneficiary is another one because they bore you with "useless" information.
    agreed, as well.


    i think some of my best teachers have been ENFjs at this point.

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    I've learnt the easiest from INFps, ESTps, ENTjs

    The hardest an ESFj teacher - she was loved by everybody for her kindness, but for the life of me I couldn't understand anything of what she explained - she explained everything twice and there was always some minor change, which made me go crazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    I thought I had read that the best teachers are your look-a-like/business relations (anyone know why these relations would be called "business")? Then I saw that socionics.com had a question and answer that said that informal research seemed to show that identicals were the best teachers, and that your mirror is a good teacher.

    Today I was taught by someone I think is an ESTj, which is my illusionary. Now, I had also read that one's contrary is the worst teacher. So I found it a little confusing that an illusionary could be so helpful to me. She spoke in a way that was different and it seemed concrete, which made things easier to understand. I recall an ENTp teacher who I felt that I didn't have to think to understand what he was saying.

    The update is this. I was wondering if maybe identicals and mirrors don't make the best teachers because when you're with them you get the urge to work together and to create together. The role of a teacher is to teach you something you don't know. But it seems that creating and doing work together presupposes that you are already both competent in the subject. What do you think? Any experiences back this up? Anyone disagree?

    my best teachers were:

    - LII-ti and LSI-ti (stuff related to Linguistics, Semantics, Syntax etc)
    - LSE and LIE - Math, Physics, Chemistry, Economics ...
    - EIE-Ni, EII, ESI, LIE Social Sciences, Literature, Foreign Language stuff
    - LII-Ne and ILE-Ti - Philosophy, History

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