How duals relieve their partners' issues with their PoLR?
How duals relieve their partners' issues with their PoLR?
this is a great question, actually. after a relationship progresses to a certain point, you become more aware of the person's polr.Originally Posted by Joy
that function would be in your superid block, largely out of consciousness....so i would think one would do nothing...one would not focus on it....one would use one's strengths to protect and defend. like it's not even on the agenda or something.
by way of contrast, i could talk about my current relationship which is not dual:
in my relation right now which is illusionary, we have one another's polr in our superid block. but it's like we see it when one another's polr has been activated. sometimes we activate it inadvertently; kind of like stepping on one another's toes. but i think we are aware of it and kind of realize it and step back. but maybe the dual seeking function is not fulfilled all that well, so bouncing back from polr hits takes a little longer and the person needs time alone to recover.
with duals i think things must be more of a flow. you would respond with your strong function to the person's dual seeking function thus quelling their anxieties more quickly, efficiently, and completely.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
From a purely theoretical viewpoint, both Super Ego blocks of both persons won't do them both any good.
They don't need them, they don't want them, they'll avoid them.
Their Super Ego blocks interfere with their Ego blocks,
Therefor, and as I've read somewhere, duals aren't omnipotent, because they both try to avoid their SuperEgo block.
How this will manifest itself in real life, i'm not aware of.
That's a perfect summary of Illusion, imo & ime.Originally Posted by diamond8
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
There are aspects of life which simply cannot be avoided though. We all have to use all of our functions, and some things simply cannot be dealt with by having your hidden agenda fulfilled. No amount of Se, for example, will make up for the fact that one gets sick and has to take care of themselves properly in order to recover.
did you mean Si?Originally Posted by Joy
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
thank you!Originally Posted by Expat
this relationship is 7 months old...and if there is anything that is holding me back it's the idea of whether this relationship can withstand the stresses of everyday life. right now it's fine, but we don't live together, we aren't caring for children together, and we are not trying to realize money/career goals.
but we are in love and able to be effective enough for the moment. but for how long? and how much time would be wasted if we cannot help each enough in stressful situations and learn this after several years?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I really think you just hand off those responsibilities to your partner. Like if my husband has some kind of event to go to, he *always* wants to bring me, even if most people aren't bringing spouses. He doesn't like to have to be part of group events and if it's something he can't get out of, he wants me there. Otherwise, he tells me about how painful it was afterward and I empathize with him. Around my ENFj dad, I kind of rescue my husband out of conversations - like by answering for him and changing the subject or getting the subject away from him if he gets uncomfortable.
I'm trying to think of a Ti situation to give an example of how he rescues me but I can't think of anything off the top of my head. But I think it's roughly the same. If it's something that can wait, I wait and pass it off to him. If he's there, he handles it. If I have to deal with it myself, I bitch about it to him later and he listens to me bitch.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
yeah, just as an exampleOriginally Posted by diamond8
Last night Peter told me (of course, this is all paraphrased) that I need to stop feeling like I have to improve myself in areas related to my PoLR. I told him that I don't see how I can fix the issues that I'm having that are preventing me from being able to use my second, and far more so, my first, functions the way I used to. He said the first function will fix itself if I just start focusing and it and ignore the issues related to my PoLR. He said that the reason I'm having those issues is because I'm worrying about it, and that I'll always feel mentally exhausted if I'm trying to make my PoLR strong. The only way to fix it is to start ignoring it... which of course, totally goes against all the advice I keep getting from my supervisor and my super ego partner who seem to know what they're talking about.Originally Posted by Quirk Satellite Div.
I've had very serious problems in the past that resulted from ignoring my PoLR. He said that stuff like that isn't going to happen now that he's around. On some level I know he's right... but I still feel like I can't stop struggling to improve myself in this area or things aren't going to get better. I guess I just don't see how it's possible to simply ignore this aspect of myself when I'm having serious problems related to it.
This mental exhaustion is a HUGE problem, and Peter suggested that the very problems I think are a cause for me to try harder in areas related to my PoLR are themselves a result of this mental exhaustion which is the result of trying too hard in areas related to my PoLR. That sounds like a horrible downward spiral... and he may very well be correct about it. But I don't know how to go back to just ignoring my PoLR.
Peter is right.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Actually, my advice was to not worry about your PoLR, and instead focus on your strengths. I think your weaknesses will tend to take care of themselves, or at least be much more manageable, when your primary focus is on progressing in your stronger areas.
yeah but i've been where joy is, too. when you truly get your mind around your polr limitations it's like wham! and you see it unfold all the time. but you can't do anything about it hardly. the best you can do is to minimize it and develop some "rules of thumb" like rick says.
but if you are in a situation where the polr function is a valued strength, you're up shits creek. you can try to change the situation or leave the situation but often this takes time and in the meantime you're pretty uncomfortable.
my only advice is to change the situation that's provoking the polr and try to find one that invests in your strengths.
remember: everybody has a polr, too. nobody is perfect, there are only situations that play to your strengths or play to your weaknesses.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I totally agree.Originally Posted by diamond8
Someone with a Si PoLR doesn't have much of a choice though when it comes from recovering from injuries or illness or surgeries or whatever. It will take as long as it takes, and the only way to improve more quickly is to listen to the advice of doctors and physical therapists and chiropractors and whatnot (who all tell you to focus on Si stuff).
Originally Posted by Diana
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
The part in bold sounds like it could be related to your PoLR. The rest is more related to Ni.Originally Posted by Diana
ENTjs (as long as you're not talking about what they see as menial stuff). ENTjs excel at making big decisions, particular where large purchases, business, or investing is concerned. And they pretty much can't stop themselves from making long term plans. It's part of the essence of what they are. Their problem is keeping up with the day to day stuff that's necessary in order to accomplish what they're planning. That stuff wears them down pretty quickly, and if (read: when) they neglect those day to day things and no one else is handling them, shit piles up and when the ENTj is finally forced to deal with it, it can seem an overwhelming task. They also tend to go too long without rest and push themselves too hard while they're working towards their goals and plans, then run out of steam and crash. When they do finally have to take time out to recharge, they may be resting, but they're not relaxing. Their mind is restless and they resent being unable to continue full speed towards their goals. Being with someone who has more even levels of energy and who doesn't mind staying on top of those day to day things makes their lives infinitely easier and far less stressful, and it maximizes their ability and efficiency in accomplishing large, long term goals.I don't like planning and choosing and ugh, but who does?
my sentiments exactlyOriginally Posted by Expat
As I was attempting to describe in my last post, planning and decision making are the easy (not to mention enjoyable) part.
I think ENTjs, ESTjs, ISTps, and INTps all like to make decisions and choose. At least to some extent. I hate to do that too. I can whittle a list down to a few choices but I'm helpless to decide between the last few. I have a hard time with comparative evaluations.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
I think different types are good at different kinds of choices.Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
I guess what I'm saying is that when it comes to my PoLR, I feel like no matter how much effort I put into it, it will never be enough. It would be a full time job, and a stressful one at that... and theoretically, if I'm unable to relax, I'm not really using it properly anyways.
I know that "not worrying about it" is what I need to do, but I can't not worry about it unless I ignore it. The PoLR, by definition, is something that we don't know how to regulate properly (such as knowing how to determine which information is important, which isn't, and what to do about it).
The part about taking energy and being tiring...that sounds more like Id functions. Si is what I relate most to in this sense. PoLR causes anxiety, stress, and frustration; it gives you that feeling that makes you want to throw things and break shit. Dual-Seeking is just a pain in the ass that takes a lot of energy and you'd rather let someone else take care of.
I'd put it like this:
Dual-Seeking - "Uugh...this again?"
PoLR - "WHAT THE FUCK OQJIFhrg[irewjgohWRHTKWGTEWJWH I'M GOING TO KILL SOMEONE"
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I think it depends on which information element it is.
For the record, LSEs like planning and choosing just as much, Joy The fact that something is happening in the future does not mean you need Ni to deal with it; that's total crockery. Anyone can sit down and THINK about what will happen; Ni types are just better at gauging immediate consequences of things going on around them.
This is definitely a Te thing: getting all the details worked out, making sure all the odds and ends are tied up, thinking stuff like "What do we need to pack?"...this is all stuff that Te dominants do well.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Nope.Originally Posted by Joy
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Think about it this way. Theoretically, your unconscious functions are less accessible, so naturally, they take more energy to use. Your conscious functions are easily accessible, no matter the strength; the problem comes in actually knowing what to do with them.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I do....maybe not choosing but I like coordinating so long as I have full control, if not I get frustrated and yell at people >_>Originally Posted by Diana
Patrick's polr sticks out like a sore thumb to me Makes it easier to soothe. Only bad part is, he doesn't know mine or how to conciously soothe it. *shrug* (Not duals I don't think btw)
SEE Unknown Subtype
6w7 sx/so
[21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
[21:29] hitta: and not dying
.
I can take decisions for everybody, everyday, everywhere! In fact, I would really enjoy starting up a business where people come and ask me to decide every-day things for them!
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
INFjs enjoy letting other people decide things, that is clear.Originally Posted by Diana
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Too much Ne, not enough Te.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
An ENTj (at least a healthy one) will not try to make decisions for you. They'll explain the options and what they think should be done and the two of you will make a decision together.Originally Posted by Diana
-_-;
No type needs decisions made for them about anything, necessarily, and no type in particular is going to just make decisions for its dual. You're being incredibly subjective, Joy, in addition to demonstrating your lack of knowledge rather openly.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Oh?
How do ENTj/ISFj couples make decisions? Enlighten us.
God you're dumb.Originally Posted by Joy
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
So I'm wrong and healthy ENTjs do try to make decisions for ISFjs?
You're seeing too many possibilities, and you can't get in touch with reality enough to decide which one is the best one given your circumstances.Originally Posted by Diana
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I think you have an unhealthy tendency to use the words "healthy" and "unhealthy" Joy.
You ruined my game.
Implying that such specific and varying behaviors as methods used in making joint decisions have anything to do with Socionics is just plain foolish.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I read each of the instances in which you describe your behavior multiple times. That's exactly what it is: you know perfectly well what you'd like to do, and you can see different possible ways of going about it, but you're not in-touch with reality enough to know which is really the right decision to make. Classic NF dilemma.Originally Posted by Diana
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
In your example it sounds like you just didn't have enough information when you made your original decision. It doesn't really sound like an example of posts you've made earlier in the thread, except the part about now needing to figure out what the best thing to do instead might be. If you're having trouble stopping considering your options, then you're stuck in Ne mode. You need Ni to offer input on what would be a good idea and what would be a bad idea (using Te information).Originally Posted by Diana
How do you know she needs Ni? Where does she imply that?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
That's not what it sounded like to me... at all. She doesn't know what she wants because she doesn't have the information she needs and doesn't know what would be a good idea and what would be a bad idea.Originally Posted by Gilly