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Thread: Anti Fi Rant

  1. #1
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Default Anti Fi Rant

    Why do some people feel entitled to ask me for arbitrary favors and expect that I'll automatically say yes JUST BECAUSE they're good friends or family? This fucking pisses me off. It's like once you've known someone for long enough, you suddenly become a favor vending machine. Fuck you, I don't ask you for any "favors," and if I do, I certainly don't put pressure on you to do them "just because." Now I have to feel bad and/or make up a reason I CAN'T do it, because as long as I imply that I'm not doing it just because I don't want to, you're either going to get offended and pissy, or just keep insisting that I do it. Not the right way to treat someone you care about.

    Example: the other day, my mom got out of the shower, and came into my room while I was still half asleep watching TV:

    "Can you please fill up the shampoo bottles for me? I've got the big jug sitting right next to the dispenser, so all you have to do is pour it in."
    "But I never use your shampoo."
    "So how did it get empty so fast?"
    "You used it."
    "Oh. Well, would you do it anyways?"
    "No."
    "Oh. Well, I'll just leave it there in case you change your mind."

    WHAT THE FUCK? This kind of shit makes me want to throw glass objects out of my window and scream at anyone who says anything about it. She took the effort to get the dispensers out of the shower, find the jugs with the refills in them, put them together, take the caps off the dispensers, and then she walks into my room while I'm still in bed and expects me to finish what she started? WAEFk'iwjrg][fougfjAWGRWeshgaweIESFGHJE[HUSHWUHGQAWHGH[O

    And yeah, I filled up the fucking dispenser, because I'm a nice guy. But it's so fucking assuming to just take for granted that I want to do things just to make you happy, ESPECIALLY if you're going to get offended if I say no. If I want to do something nice for you, I'll do it, WITHOUT you asking. Doesn't that make it better, more genuine, if I take initiative and do things for you because I WANT to, and not just because you happen to need something and I'm the closest person you feel comfortable asking?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  3. #3
    Creepy-bg

    Default Re: Anti-Fi Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Why do some people feel entitled to ask me for arbitrary favors and expect that I'll automatically say yes JUST BECAUSE they're good friends or family? This fucking pisses me off. It's like once you've known someone for long enough, you suddenly become a favor vending machine. Fuck you, I don't ask you for any "favors," and if I do, I certainly don't put pressure on you to do them "just because." Now I have to feel bad and/or make up a reason I CAN'T do it, because as long as I imply that I'm not doing it just because I don't want to, you're either going to get offended and pissy, or just keep insisting that I do it. Not the right way to treat someone you care about.

    Example: the other day, my mom got out of the shower, and came into my room while I was still half asleep watching TV:

    "Can you please fill up the shampoo bottles for me? I've got the big jug sitting right next to the dispenser, so all you have to do is pour it in."
    "But I never use your shampoo."
    "So how did it get empty so fast?"
    "You used it."
    "Oh. Well, would you do it anyways?"
    "No."
    "Oh. Well, I'll just leave it there in case you change your mind."

    WHAT THE FUCK? This kind of shit makes me want to throw glass objects out of my window and scream at anyone who says anything about it. She took the effort to get the dispensers out of the shower, find the jugs with the refills in them, put them together, take the caps off the dispensers, and then she walks into my room while I'm still in bed and expects me to finish what she started? WAEFk'iwjrg][fougfjAWGRWeshgaweIESFGHJE[HUSHWUHGQAWHGH[O

    And yeah, I filled up the fucking dispenser, because I'm a nice guy. But it's so fucking assuming to just take for granted that I want to do things just to make you happy, ESPECIALLY if you're going to get offended if I say no. If I want to do something nice for you, I'll do it, WITHOUT you asking. Doesn't that make it better, more genuine, if I take initiative and do things for you because I WANT to, and not just because you happen to need something and I'm the closest person you feel comfortable asking?
    how about you do me a favor and SHUT THE FUCK UP!

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Oh c'mon, those are small favours.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yeah, but it's the principle of the matter! Nobody should just expect me to do shit that they can do for themselves simply because I'm close to them, and then feel bad if I say no. If you ask someone for a FAVOR, you have to entertain the possibility that they won't do it; if you can't accept that, then you might as well be telling them to. It's not that I mind doing things for other people; I went ahead and did it, didn't I? My beef is that they take for granted that I'll want to do things for them, just because it's "them," and then make me fee bad if I say no.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    If you ask someone for a FAVOR, you have to entertain the possibility that they won't do it; if you can't accept that, then you might as well be telling them to.
    I agree with that, it makes sense.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    for some reason i can totally relate to gilly on this...maybe because it sounds totally effing familiar (i think we both grew up with benefactor-supervisor parents). my mother would do the same thing as his.

    i usually wouldn't say anything, but would take my sweet time in doing it.

    but yeah it's so irritating! anti-fi? yeah i guess so. i don't usually ask people for minor favors - and when i do i don't stand there in my towel with high expectations....and especially not for things i can do myself. i would ask for things that i really need help with, not stupid things like they're some kind of test. and when i ask for help i make sure the person realizes that i totally appreciate the help; i am very thankful.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    A test! That's it, exactly. It's like "If you love me, you'll do this for me! " VOM!

    And yeah, my parents are LSE (mother) and EII (father).

    I think no matter what our types are, we have to be IDs
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    It's not laziness (my mother is anything BUT lazy). It's the fact that they feel entitled to ask favors and expect them to be done unquestioningly, but get all weepy and offended if I say no.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Oh c'mon, those are small favours.
    It'd not be an issue for you because you're an automatic "doer". Gilly's "doer" function is role: if he can't fit himself into it, he won't do it.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Right. It's because there's absolutely no justification for it, other than "just because."
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I used to get irritated when I was younger, and I was told to clean my room or take out the garbage or mow the lawn - but that was purely because I did not like subordination in any way - ethical pressuring especially.

    However, those times are long gone. I actively seek out things i can do to support the house and such. Maybe that is why I get along so well with INFjs. Nowadays I embrace doing things for the house, especially because I am basically staying here for free. Even though it is family, it is something I do not take for granted.


    Part of me just wants to say to Gilly: look, if that is your biggest problem with how your parents are treating you, you should rejoice, because it could be much worse.

    PS:

    Right. It's because there's absolutely no justification for it, other than "just because."
    Absolutely no justification? How about you are living in a house with those people? And so on...
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Ummm...this is not about household chores. I don't like those, either but I have no ethical beef with them. And it's not just about my parents.

    This is about people assuming that you WANT to do the things they ask of you as favors, simply because you're friends/family/whatever. It's about the sense of entitlement that some people feel when they get close to you, assuming that they can ask for something and that you will just do it "because you love me."
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    This is about people assuming that you WANT to do the things they ask of you as favors, simply because you're friends/family/whatever. It's about the sense of entitlement that some people feel when they get close to you, assuming that they can ask for something and that you will just do it "because you love me."
    I know what you mean, I suppose it just does not bother me. So long as it is not abusive or people are trying to pressure me, or they are intentionally being lax or lazy themselves.

    ...edited out...

    I suppose I do do things because "I love someone", like, when my parents ask me to do something that I particularly do not want to do. But generally speaking, so long as I do not have something else that is very important, it just seems like a matter of doing it. You can get angry if you want, and if you feel like you are being truly exploited then it is justified. But a lot of the time I just see someone who is asking you for a favor - even it it is sort of a necessary "yes" - and it is an easy oppertunity to earn relationship points.

    This somewhat reminds me of Covey's "emotional bank account" concept.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    i relate, gilly. irritation + doing it anyway because they go and feel bad. *roll eyes*. always making me feel bad

    intro dolphin, that made it clearer for me. I can see why entps get impatient when people don't tell them what "the problem" is in an argument.

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    Default Re: Anti-Fi Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    "Can you please fill up the shampoo bottles for me? I've got the big jug sitting right next to the dispenser, so all you have to do is pour it in."
    "But I never use your shampoo."
    "So how did it get empty so fast?"
    "You used it."
    "Oh. Well, would you do it anyways?"
    "No."
    "Oh. Well, I'll just leave it there in case you change your mind."
    I have arguments with my ISFj all the time exactly like this (even the 'so how it did it get empty so fast?' bit - it's irritant how she accuses me, and still expects me to do something, and then reverts back to her accusation when I don't do it - she doesn't seem to see logic - she seems to want me to do something for her out of a guilt that just isn't there. If that doesn't work she, calls me lazy - but what does that make her, not being able to do her own simple chores? Obviously, pointing out this flaw in her reasoning is just another sign of a guilty conscience or something. If I do something for her, it never seems reciprocal - it seems purely like an obligation, as though I am somehow servile. It's also extremely irritating when she goes into my room without asking - no matter how many times I tell her, she seems to 'forget'. It just isn't right - it's as though she wants me to complain, although I'd rather not have to bother. She can be irritated if I'm in the same room as her, for no explanation what so ever, and yet she wanders into my own private space without a care in the world.

    There have been times when I was gonna do something, like wash the dishes, when she has come up to me and says 'HOW COME YOU NEVER DO THE DISHES?' etc. etc., and I just think 'fuck it, why bother?'. I don't want to think I only did the washing up because she 'forced' me to - I also don't like how she assumes that I have never done the dishes before - it's as though she doesn't value my work at all, or has never noticed - what she says is completely untrue - if washing the dishes many times a week is doing nothing, then why should I wash the dishes more, when that logically must be 'nothing' as well?

    Also, another thing she does is if I am doing something such as washing the dishes, she will more often than not accuse me of getting in the way, or of looking at her, when it simply isn't true - I often have to look up to see if she is staring at me, which she usually is, which obviously means that I'm in the wrong, rather than her. If I'm staring out of the window absent-mindedly while doing the washing up, she'll accuse me of thinking 'bad thoughts' - I really can't win with her - if I try to resolve the situation, by saying something about 'that tree over there' she accuses me of desiring incest or some such nonsense. Five minutes later (if I haven't escalated the row or have somehow managed to say the right thing), she is back to 'normal' again - I find her extremely puzzling.

    If I comment about how calm she is, judging from what she determined my intent to be only minutes earlier, she goes into a rage, and just goes on about how I'm making her unhappy by interrogating her etc. - she doesn't see the logic of me pointing out that she is more angry in these situations than I was when she accused me of incest or whatever - she thinks I am wrong, and that she is always right, regardless of who is the most logical. A logical argument against her is a 'hostile attack', an allegation of incest was just what she was feeling at the time, apparently - she sees me as being deliberately argumentative, while she was following her heart, and therefore she is more 'pure'.

    I can remember when I was nine she accused my brother of breaking the aerial off her favourite radio, because 'Jesus' had told her in her heart that he had done it. I was actually going to admit to breaking the radio, but she seemed certain of her argument, so it wasn't my problem. I told her years later that it was I who broke the radio, to mock her self-righteousness and sense of always being right. Whenever an incident now occurs (e.g. she accuses me of hiding something, then later finds it where she left it), she blames it on me, sometimes saying 'YOU DID THIS, LIKE YOU BROKE THAT RADIO!'. This argument is unbelievably poor - not least because she only knew because I broke the radio because I told her - I could just as easily say that it was my brother who had done it - how is she to know? Why does she believe I'm telling the truth in that instance, when 'Jesus' initially told her otherwise? (I'm rather flattered). Also, the radio was broken accidentally - an important distinction when she accuses me of doing works of the utmost evil, such as hiding her keys, apparently.

    (I'm sorry to bring up a radio that I broke more than ten years ago - it's frequently on my mind for some reason).
    EII-Ne
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    Maybe she was trying to get you to stop being lazy?


    Other than that, I also don't understand why she'd go through the effort of getting everything out like that, but not actually filling them. Doesn't seem very....logical? Sounds like an ESFj trick actually.
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    Default Re: Anti-Fi Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Why do some people feel entitled to ask me for arbitrary favors and expect that I'll automatically say yes JUST BECAUSE they're good friends or family? This fucking pisses me off. It's like once you've known someone for long enough, you suddenly become a favor vending machine. Fuck you, I don't ask you for any "favors," and if I do, I certainly don't put pressure on you to do them "just because." Now I have to feel bad and/or make up a reason I CAN'T do it, because as long as I imply that I'm not doing it just because I don't want to, you're either going to get offended and pissy, or just keep insisting that I do it. Not the right way to treat someone you care about.

    Example: the other day, my mom got out of the shower, and came into my room while I was still half asleep watching TV:

    "Can you please fill up the shampoo bottles for me? I've got the big jug sitting right next to the dispenser, so all you have to do is pour it in."
    "But I never use your shampoo."
    "So how did it get empty so fast?"
    "You used it."
    "Oh. Well, would you do it anyways?"
    "No."
    "Oh. Well, I'll just leave it there in case you change your mind."

    WHAT THE FUCK? This kind of shit makes me want to throw glass objects out of my window and scream at anyone who says anything about it. She took the effort to get the dispensers out of the shower, find the jugs with the refills in them, put them together, take the caps off the dispensers, and then she walks into my room while I'm still in bed and expects me to finish what she started? WAEFk'iwjrg][fougfjAWGRWeshgaweIESFGHJE[HUSHWUHGQAWHGH[O

    And yeah, I filled up the fucking dispenser, because I'm a nice guy. But it's so fucking assuming to just take for granted that I want to do things just to make you happy, ESPECIALLY if you're going to get offended if I say no. If I want to do something nice for you, I'll do it, WITHOUT you asking. Doesn't that make it better, more genuine, if I take initiative and do things for you because I WANT to, and not just because you happen to need something and I'm the closest person you feel comfortable asking?
    Well, why don't you just.... not live with your Mother?

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    And of course it always comes at a time when we're in this great Si flow, and then this "guilt" has to disrupt our harmony.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion
    Maybe she was trying to get you to stop being lazy?


    Other than that, I also don't understand why she'd go through the effort of getting everything out like that, but not actually filling them. Doesn't seem very....logical? Sounds like an ESFj trick actually.
    No. From her, it's Fi Dual-Seeking from the perspective of a logical type: "You'll do this if you love me."
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    And of course it always comes at a time when we're in this great Si flow, and then this "guilt" has to disrupt our harmony.
    Ahhh, God, so true...

    Ani: I'm working on it.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion
    Maybe she was trying to get you to stop being lazy?


    Other than that, I also don't understand why she'd go through the effort of getting everything out like that, but not actually filling them. Doesn't seem very....logical? Sounds like an ESFj trick actually.
    No. From her, it's Fi Dual-Seeking from the perspective of a logical type: "You'll do this if you love me."
    is she the estj? you dad is the infj?

    this whole story is hilarious. my mom (estj) would do EXACTLY the same thing. and more so with my brothers than with me.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yup. Having an LSE mother is a trip, isn't it?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  24. #24
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    this must be why I never ask other people to do things for me... that was a big hurdle to try to get over when I first started the manager job

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    Mmmm...that would be more of an -values thing. When you're giving orders, you're appealing to ; when you're asking for a personal favor "just because," you're appealing to Fi. You don't value , so it's not fun for you to make people do things just because you're their superior.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    soooo NT types would prolly only ask for help if they really/logically needed help.

    Fe dual seeking would be more like, "send me a dozen roses to my work for my birthday". hahaha

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  27. #27
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    when you're asking for a personal favor "just because,"
    yeah, that sounds like stupid headgames shit to me

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    Default Re: Anti-Fi Rant

    Example: the other day, my mom got out of the shower, and came into my room while I was still half asleep watching TV:

    "Can you please fill up the shampoo bottles for me? I've got the big jug sitting right next to the dispenser, so all you have to do is pour it in."
    "But I never use your shampoo."
    "So how did it get empty so fast?"
    "You used it."
    "Oh. Well, would you do it anyways?"
    "No."
    "Oh. Well, I'll just leave it there in case you change your mind."

    ****
    Your mother sounds like an ENFP. They often have an unhealthy lack of boundaries with children. My advice is get the fuck out of your parents house. I mean it.

    lefty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    And of course it always comes at a time when we're in this great Si flow, and then this "guilt" has to disrupt our harmony.
    yes! that's totally when these requests come! that's reallly funny..

    @lefty: no, his mom is definitely an estj. just like mine. they do exactly the same thing.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    And of course it always comes at a time when we're in this great Si flow, and then this "guilt" has to disrupt our harmony.
    yes! that's totally when these requests come! that's reallly funny..

    @lefty: no, his mom is definitely an estj. just like mine. they do exactly the same thing.
    i dunno. I think an estj is the enfp's finished product so an enfp can go around trying to tell people what to do taking in information through their IF secondary function. And with an ENFP's "vigilance," I still think his mother could be quite the ENFP ...Plus with him feeling she is conflicting with his Si that points to conflict with Si tendances like the ENFP conflicts with ISTJ.

    Also ... ESTJ is on the chain of being supervised by Si in the ISTJ and this doesn't sound to me like this woman is being supervised by her son. It sounds like an ENFP trying to moblize her finished product who is neurotic, flakey, lazy, and oober controlling. ENFPs hate it when people get rest.

    Im content to diagree with you.

    Lefty
    ENFJ
    4w5 friend to languid creatures everywhere.

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    well lefty not sure i really understand what you are trying to say, but oh well, yeah agree to disagree :wink:

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Default Re: Anti-Fi Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    "Can you please fill up the shampoo bottles for me? I've got the big jug sitting right next to the dispenser, so all you have to do is pour it in."
    "But I never use your shampoo."
    "So how did it get empty so fast?"
    "You used it."
    "Oh. Well, would you do it anyways?"
    "No."
    "Oh. Well, I'll just leave it there in case you change your mind."
    I have arguments with my ISFj all the time exactly like this (even the 'so how it did it get empty so fast?' bit - it's irritant how she accuses me, and still expects me to do something, and then reverts back to her accusation when I don't do it - she doesn't seem to see logic - she seems to want me to do something for her out of a guilt that just isn't there. If that doesn't work she, calls me lazy - but what does that make her, not being able to do her own simple chores? Obviously, pointing out this flaw in her reasoning is just another sign of a guilty conscience or something. If I do something for her, it never seems reciprocal - it seems purely like an obligation, as though I am somehow servile. It's also extremely irritating when she goes into my room without asking - no matter how many times I tell her, she seems to 'forget'. It just isn't right - it's as though she wants me to complain, although I'd rather not have to bother. She can be irritated if I'm in the same room as her, for no explanation what so ever, and yet she wanders into my own private space without a care in the world.

    There have been times when I was gonna do something, like wash the dishes, when she has come up to me and says 'HOW COME YOU NEVER DO THE DISHES?' etc. etc., and I just think 'fuck it, why bother?'. I don't want to think I only did the washing up because she 'forced' me to - I also don't like how she assumes that I have never done the dishes before - it's as though she doesn't value my work at all, or has never noticed - what she says is completely untrue - if washing the dishes many times a week is doing nothing, then why should I wash the dishes more, when that logically must be 'nothing' as well?

    Also, another thing she does is if I am doing something such as washing the dishes, she will more often than not accuse me of getting in the way, or of looking at her, when it simply isn't true - I often have to look up to see if she is staring at me, which she usually is, which obviously means that I'm in the wrong, rather than her. If I'm staring out of the window absent-mindedly while doing the washing up, she'll accuse me of thinking 'bad thoughts' - I really can't win with her - if I try to resolve the situation, by saying something about 'that tree over there' she accuses me of desiring incest or some such nonsense. Five minutes later (if I haven't escalated the row or have somehow managed to say the right thing), she is back to 'normal' again - I find her extremely puzzling.

    If I comment about how calm she is, judging from what she determined my intent to be only minutes earlier, she goes into a rage, and just goes on about how I'm making her unhappy by interrogating her etc. - she doesn't see the logic of me pointing out that she is more angry in these situations than I was when she accused me of incest or whatever - she thinks I am wrong, and that she is always right, regardless of who is the most logical. A logical argument against her is a 'hostile attack', an allegation of incest was just what she was feeling at the time, apparently - she sees me as being deliberately argumentative, while she was following her heart, and therefore she is more 'pure'.

    I can remember when I was nine she accused my brother of breaking the aerial off her favourite radio, because 'Jesus' had told her in her heart that he had done it. I was actually going to admit to breaking the radio, but she seemed certain of her argument, so it wasn't my problem. I told her years later that it was I who broke the radio, to mock her self-righteousness and sense of always being right. Whenever an incident now occurs (e.g. she accuses me of hiding something, then later finds it where she left it), she blames it on me, sometimes saying 'YOU DID THIS, LIKE YOU BROKE THAT RADIO!'. This argument is unbelievably poor - not least because she only knew because I broke the radio because I told her - I could just as easily say that it was my brother who had done it - how is she to know? Why does she believe I'm telling the truth in that instance, when 'Jesus' initially told her otherwise? (I'm rather flattered). Also, the radio was broken accidentally - an important distinction when she accuses me of doing works of the utmost evil, such as hiding her keys, apparently.

    (I'm sorry to bring up a radio that I broke more than ten years ago - it's frequently on my mind for some reason).

    welll....this is "madness" more than "ISFj type"
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Women like that are the reason for rising violence from child to parent...I would've shot her by now.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Default Re: Anti-Fi Rant

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    "Can you please fill up the shampoo bottles for me? I've got the big jug sitting right next to the dispenser, so all you have to do is pour it in."
    "But I never use your shampoo."
    "So how did it get empty so fast?"
    "You used it."
    "Oh. Well, would you do it anyways?"
    "No."
    "Oh. Well, I'll just leave it there in case you change your mind."
    I have arguments with my ISFj all the time exactly like this (even the 'so how it did it get empty so fast?' bit - it's irritant how she accuses me, and still expects me to do something, and then reverts back to her accusation when I don't do it - she doesn't seem to see logic - she seems to want me to do something for her out of a guilt that just isn't there. If that doesn't work she, calls me lazy - but what does that make her, not being able to do her own simple chores? Obviously, pointing out this flaw in her reasoning is just another sign of a guilty conscience or something. If I do something for her, it never seems reciprocal - it seems purely like an obligation, as though I am somehow servile. It's also extremely irritating when she goes into my room without asking - no matter how many times I tell her, she seems to 'forget'. It just isn't right - it's as though she wants me to complain, although I'd rather not have to bother. She can be irritated if I'm in the same room as her, for no explanation what so ever, and yet she wanders into my own private space without a care in the world.

    There have been times when I was gonna do something, like wash the dishes, when she has come up to me and says 'HOW COME YOU NEVER DO THE DISHES?' etc. etc., and I just think 'fuck it, why bother?'. I don't want to think I only did the washing up because she 'forced' me to - I also don't like how she assumes that I have never done the dishes before - it's as though she doesn't value my work at all, or has never noticed - what she says is completely untrue - if washing the dishes many times a week is doing nothing, then why should I wash the dishes more, when that logically must be 'nothing' as well?

    Also, another thing she does is if I am doing something such as washing the dishes, she will more often than not accuse me of getting in the way, or of looking at her, when it simply isn't true - I often have to look up to see if she is staring at me, which she usually is, which obviously means that I'm in the wrong, rather than her. If I'm staring out of the window absent-mindedly while doing the washing up, she'll accuse me of thinking 'bad thoughts' - I really can't win with her - if I try to resolve the situation, by saying something about 'that tree over there' she accuses me of desiring incest or some such nonsense. Five minutes later (if I haven't escalated the row or have somehow managed to say the right thing), she is back to 'normal' again - I find her extremely puzzling.

    If I comment about how calm she is, judging from what she determined my intent to be only minutes earlier, she goes into a rage, and just goes on about how I'm making her unhappy by interrogating her etc. - she doesn't see the logic of me pointing out that she is more angry in these situations than I was when she accused me of incest or whatever - she thinks I am wrong, and that she is always right, regardless of who is the most logical. A logical argument against her is a 'hostile attack', an allegation of incest was just what she was feeling at the time, apparently - she sees me as being deliberately argumentative, while she was following her heart, and therefore she is more 'pure'.

    I can remember when I was nine she accused my brother of breaking the aerial off her favourite radio, because 'Jesus' had told her in her heart that he had done it. I was actually going to admit to breaking the radio, but she seemed certain of her argument, so it wasn't my problem. I told her years later that it was I who broke the radio, to mock her self-righteousness and sense of always being right. Whenever an incident now occurs (e.g. she accuses me of hiding something, then later finds it where she left it), she blames it on me, sometimes saying 'YOU DID THIS, LIKE YOU BROKE THAT RADIO!'. This argument is unbelievably poor - not least because she only knew because I broke the radio because I told her - I could just as easily say that it was my brother who had done it - how is she to know? Why does she believe I'm telling the truth in that instance, when 'Jesus' initially told her otherwise? (I'm rather flattered). Also, the radio was broken accidentally - an important distinction when she accuses me of doing works of the utmost evil, such as hiding her keys, apparently.

    (I'm sorry to bring up a radio that I broke more than ten years ago - it's frequently on my mind for some reason).

    welll....this is "madness" more than "ISFj type"
    well it's that familial relationships aren't logical. i mean, god, didn't we cover this in ESFp 101?
    6w5 sx
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    haha i love my family!
    suckers!
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    haha i love my family!
    suckers!
    Winston Smith also loved Big Brother.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    What? Are you seriously that much of an asshole that you threw a hissy fit over being asked to do something as simple as fill a shampoo bottle for your mom?
    Now my brother does this shit when asked to do anything and will even go as far as to leave when someone is about to ask for something. I've come close plenty of
    times to kicking his ass and I think that is what you need. I hope you do not ever ask for anything because remember you are entitled to nothing.

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    What? Holy lordy, you go to a different quadra for a while and you find that everyone has the same opinion.

    I have a lot of Fi, and I'll try to explain how it works with favours. The favour your mother asked was ridiculous, because she didn't really need it. But when I need it? It pisses me off that they can't do a simple little thing for me, to make my day a whole lot better. It's because I would do it for them, I expect them to do the same.

    But she did not even make into a big deal! She said, "Oh, well, I'll leave it there in case." You'd have a point here if she went psycho on yer arse. Calm down, buddy.

    I do not like that this is my first post.

  39. #39
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    I'm tired of reading the same prejudice over and over. Fi's not about "just because". That's a very simplistic view on it.

    Like I explained in annother thread, Ti is exclusionist and Fi inclusionist. For that reason Ti types think like this:

    "If I have 10 coins and I give 2 to my sister and 3 to my brother, then I'm left with 5".

    While Fi types think like this:

    "My brother, sister and I are members of a group (a family). If I give them half of my coins, we still have 10 as a group."

    But not only that. If instead of ten coins I had a billion, it's very likely that I would keep most of them stored, idle. If I give the coins I don't need to others, those coins are put to a good use, and thus the amount of coins inside the group will raise. That's Te, since Te cares for net profit as much as it cares for efficiency.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

  40. #40

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    My Mom is an ISFj. Growing up in the same house as her, her requests to do various things seemed endless. She easily had me occupied from 0.5-3 hours at a time with assorted tasks she would lay out one by one, each comprising somewhere between 1-10 minutes to complete. It was clear with her that since she was my Mom, I was to obey, due to our roles. At the same time, it's not like she really overworked me or anything. It's not like I had a host of clearly defined chores - she did allow me goof off time. But her way of going about her requests was just ... strange. So ... linear and trite. Most of the tasks were SO trivial. "Go and get my glasses for me from off the kitchen table ... Put this book back on the shelf ... Go downstairs and set restart the dryer for another ten minutes ... Let the dog out ... Go outside and move the sprinkler ... Would you hand me the licorice from the top of the fridge?" On and on. But the thing is is - you can't call her lazy. She was amazingly active around the house, moreso than I ever was, by comparison. And she bent over backwards to do things for my family and run a good home. So as irritating as it would get, I would think of my love for her and recall her devotion to us, and realize that what she asked of me was no skin off my back.

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