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Thread: Se vs Si ?

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    Default Se vs Si ?

    If you were to help someone differentiate between Se and Si, how would you go about it?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Si: the physical state (of self and others), and how events affect it; physical needs, comfort, and stability
    Se: the outward physical traits of objects; value (monetary or power), strength, shape, and readiness to mobilize
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Se = Pushin stuff

    Si = Touchin stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Se = Pushin stuff

    Si = Touchin stuff
    holy cow, no kidding!!!
    this is a damned good summary!

    i remember the first week of wellbutrin when i tried it....
    it was suddenly an Se world...
    look at all the pretty toys i can play with!!!
    it's like the world was full of objects to be moved around whenever/however i wanted
    i don't normally pay attention to all those objects, but suddenly cars, trees, people, animals, lawn mowers sitting by the side of the road, and even rocks took on a whole new meaning!!!
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Se = Pushin stuff

    Si = Touchin stuff
    LOVE it



    My first thought was that I didn't see how anyone could confuse these two things. LOL They feel more different than any other two related functions . . . dunno if "related functions" is a good way to put it but i'm hoping everyone here knows what I mean.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Se = Pushin stuff

    Si = Touchin stuff
    LOVE it



    My first thought was that I didn't see how anyone could confuse these two things. LOL They feel more different than any other two related functions . . . dunno if "related functions" is a good way to put it but i'm hoping everyone here knows what I mean.
    Yes, it is usually the easiest dichotomy for me to see.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Se = Pushin stuff

    Si = Touchin stuff
    holy cow, no kidding!!!
    this is a damned good summary!

    i remember the first week of wellbutrin when i tried it....
    it was suddenly an Se world...
    look at all the pretty toys i can play with!!!
    it's like the world was full of objects to be moved around whenever/however i wanted
    i don't normally pay attention to all those objects, but suddenly cars, trees, people, animals, lawn mowers sitting by the side of the road, and even rocks took on a whole new meaning!!!
    Your pharmacist slip you some ecstacy? j/k, i tried a few antidepressants and it's overstimulation to the max...for me at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Se = Pushin stuff

    Si = Touchin stuff
    holy cow, no kidding!!!
    this is a damned good summary!

    i remember the first week of wellbutrin when i tried it....
    it was suddenly an Se world...
    look at all the pretty toys i can play with!!!
    it's like the world was full of objects to be moved around whenever/however i wanted
    i don't normally pay attention to all those objects, but suddenly cars, trees, people, animals, lawn mowers sitting by the side of the road, and even rocks took on a whole new meaning!!!
    Your pharmacist slip you some ecstacy? j/k, i tried a few antidepressants and it's overstimulation to the max...for me at least.
    apparently, not everyone gets an initial high off of it...I guess I got lucky.
    unfortunately, no matter how we tried to alter it, I never felt that way again.
    I quite it after a month or so because it wasn't offering any positive benefits...especially considering the negative reactions.
    Bummer really, cuz in that one week i was able to do a lot
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    I've hardly tried legal drugs... funny enough all those brain pills scare the shit out of me

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    I had a paracetamol once - I took it in two halves, a day apart, just in case of complications.
    EII-Ne
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    Si: "that apple has a nice color, tastes good, has a good texture".
    Se: "with a slap of my hand I can get that apple on the table flying right out of the window".

    Si: dynamic irrational introverted sensations - you react to your every-changing internal perceptions
    Se: static irrational extroverted perceptions - you perceive the static state of an object and immediately want to alter it

    Si: "wow, she's beautiful".
    Se: "I can easily kick your ass".

    Si: "let's camp on that spot near the lake, it's gorgeous"
    Se: "it's too close to where those other people have set up their tent".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Si: dynamic irrational introverted sensations - you react to your every-changing internal perceptions
    Se: static irrational extroverted perceptions - you perceive the static state of an object and immediately want to alter it
    Ni is also dynamic, irrational and introverted; Ne is also static, irrational and extroverted.
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Si: dynamic irrational introverted sensations - you react to your every-changing internal perceptions
    Se: static irrational extroverted perceptions - you perceive the static state of an object and immediately want to alter it
    Ni is also dynamic, irrational and introverted; Ne is also static, irrational and extroverted.
    Uhh - yes. And your point is? Se and Si is also sensing, Ne and Ni is intuition -- did you want me to point out the obvious too?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Si: dynamic irrational introverted sensations - you react to your every-changing internal perceptions
    Se: static irrational extroverted perceptions - you perceive the static state of an object and immediately want to alter it
    Ni is also dynamic, irrational and introverted; Ne is also static, irrational and extroverted.
    And your point is?
    How do you differentiate them?
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    How do you differentiate them?
    Who's "them"? Ne and Ni as opposed to Se and Si?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    How do you differentiate them?
    Who's "them"? Ne and Ni as opposed to Se and Si?
    Ni from Si and Ne from Se.
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    There is the "bodies and fields" definition.

    I prefer to say that Si and Se are "closer" to the immediate senses, to the present reality, than Ne and Ni, which are a bit more "detached".

    One way of putting it is to say that Si and Se are external and Ne and Ni are internal.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I prefer to say that Si and Se are "closer" to the immediate senses, to the present reality, than Ne and Ni, which are a bit more "detached".

    One way of putting it is to say that Si and Se are external and Ne and Ni are internal.
    Is Thinking, being an External Function, then also 'closer' to the immediate senses, and Feeling more 'detached'?
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Is Thinking, being an External Function, then also 'closer' to the immediate senses, and Feeling more 'detached'?
    Perhaps so, in a way. Doesn't it seem easier to conceive of a Thinking machine than of a Feeling machine? Feeling and Intuition are more "personal" than Sensing and Thinking, then. An ISTj robot seems easier to construct than an ENFp one.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Is Thinking, being an External Function, then also 'closer' to the immediate senses, and Feeling more 'detached'?
    Perhaps so, in a way. Doesn't it seem easier to conceive of a Thinking machine than of a Feeling machine? Feeling and Intuition are more "personal" than Sensing and Thinking, then. An ISTj robot seems easier to construct than an ENFp one.


    I've been conceiving Sensing and Thinking as 'physical', recently, and Intuition and Feeling as 'mental', although the terms are very hard to pin down exactly...something approaching dual-aspect metaphysical theories or panpsychism, possibly. It gets even more complicated when Static/Dynamic distinctions are made, of course, not least because what is Static under one attitude is Dynamic under the other.
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    It gets even more complicated when Static/Dynamic distinctions are made, of course, not least because what is Static under one attitude is Dynamic under the other.
    Yes, but because you also have the rational/irrational bit.

    and -- static but "pushing" for change --> extrovertion
    and - static and "welcoming" stasis ---> introversion

    and -- dynamic and "controlling" change --> extroversion
    and -- dynamic and "welcoming" change ---> introversion
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    It gets even more complicated when Static/Dynamic distinctions are made, of course, not least because what is Static under one attitude is Dynamic under the other.
    Yes, but because you also have the rational/irrational bit.

    and -- static but "pushing" for change --> extrovertion
    and - static and "welcoming" stasis ---> introversion

    and -- dynamic and "controlling" change --> extroversion
    and -- dynamic and "welcoming" change ---> introversion
    ooh good way to put it
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes, but because you also have the rational/irrational bit.

    and -- static but "pushing" for change --> extrovertion
    and - static and "welcoming" stasis ---> introversion

    and -- dynamic and "controlling" change --> extroversion
    and -- dynamic and "welcoming" change ---> introversion
    How can both 'welcoming' stasis and 'welcoming' change correspond to Introversion?
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes, but because you also have the rational/irrational bit.

    and -- static but "pushing" for change --> extrovertion
    and - static and "welcoming" stasis ---> introversion

    and -- dynamic and "controlling" change --> extroversion
    and -- dynamic and "welcoming" change ---> introversion
    How can both 'welcoming' stasis and 'welcoming' change correspond to Introversion?
    perceiving judging, easy
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    How can both 'welcoming' stasis and 'welcoming' change correspond to Introversion?
    perceiving judging, easy
    I assume you mean perceiving corresponds to 'welcoming change', and judging corresponds to 'welcoming stasis', but in any case they're orthogonal to Introversion/Extraversion.
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    How can both 'welcoming' stasis and 'welcoming' change correspond to Introversion?
    perceiving judging, easy
    I assume you mean perceiving corresponds to 'welcoming change', and judging corresponds to 'welcoming stasis', but in any case they're orthogonal to Introversion/Extraversion.
    Now I get what you mean. Yes there's the potential for a logical contradiction there
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    I assume you mean perceiving corresponds to 'welcoming change', and judging corresponds to 'welcoming stasis', but in any case they're orthogonal to Introversion/Extraversion.
    No.

    Dynamic perceives change, Static perceives stasis
    Rational dislikes "uncontrolled" change, Irrational wants change

    Static + Irrational --> change must be caused ---> extroversion
    Static + Rational ---> there is no uncontrolled change, no need for action ---> introversion
    Dynamic + irrational ---> change is happening already ---> introversion
    Dynamic + rational --> change is happening and must be controlled ---> extroversion
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    I assume you mean perceiving corresponds to 'welcoming change', and judging corresponds to 'welcoming stasis', but in any case they're orthogonal to Introversion/Extraversion.
    No.

    Dynamic perceives change, Static perceives stasis
    Rational dislikes "uncontrolled" change, Irrational wants change

    Static + Irrational --> change must be caused ---> extroversion
    Static + Rational ---> there is no uncontrolled change, no need for action ---> introversion
    Dynamic + irrational ---> change is happening already ---> introversion
    Dynamic + rational --> change is happening and must be controlled ---> extroversion
    what he means is, that if you have

    Fi Se let's say

    Se pushes for change in your model, right? well in the case of creative, it doesn't, it pushes for stasis
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    Examining an object:
    Ne: "I wonder what this does ... I wonder what it'll do if I do this to it ... it's very strange ..."
    Se: "Watch me do this ... and this ... and this ... fucking hell, I broke it ... throw ... smash ..."


    I think Ne is more about what something means, or what it potentially means in relation to other things, though.
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Dynamic perceives change, Static perceives stasis
    Rational dislikes "uncontrolled" change, Irrational wants change

    Static + Irrational --> change must be caused ---> extroversion
    Static + Rational ---> there is no uncontrolled change, no need for action ---> introversion
    Dynamic + irrational ---> change is happening already ---> introversion
    Dynamic + rational --> change is happening and must be controlled ---> extroversion
    My point is how can 'change must be caused' and 'change is happening and must be controlled' both equate to the same attitude (Extroversion), and likewise for Introversion.
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    what he means is, that if you have

    Fi Se let's say

    Se pushes for change in your model, right? well in the case of creative, it doesn't, it pushes for stasis
    I don't even want to think about bringing Positions into it, actually.
    -
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    My point is how can 'change must be caused' and 'change is happening and must be controlled' both equate to the same attitude (Extroversion), and likewise for Introversion.
    Because of rationality or irrationality. Extroversion is a need to take action, Introversion is the absence of this need.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    My point is how can 'change must be caused' and 'change is happening and must be controlled' both equate to the same attitude (Extroversion), and likewise for Introversion.
    Because of rationality or irrationality. Extroversion is a need to take action, Introversion is the absence of this need.
    I see; Extroversion concerns opposing whatever is considered to be dominant (stasis or change).
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy

    I see; Extroversion is about opposing whatever it considers to be dominant (stasis or change).
    Yes; where in the case of and is not necessarily about opposing the change, but steering it into the direction you want. and is about kicking a sitting bull to get it running; and is about holding the bull by the horns to either make it stop or control its speed and direction.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes; where in the case of and is not necessarily about opposing the change, but steering it into the direction you want. and is about kicking a sitting bull to get it running; and is about holding the bull by the horns to either make it stop or control its speed and direction.
    Thank you. In an incredibly round-about way, if is about 'kicking a sitting bull to get it running', what is - noticing how a running bull affects other bulls?
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Si/Ni rides the bull once it's moving, and steers it to make sure it doesn't run into a wall/other bulls/other shit.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Si/Ni rides the bull once it's moving, and steers it to make sure it doesn't run into a wall/other bulls/other shit.
    Si is enjoying the ride itself, Ni is enjoying how the ride is proceeding - until it gets into an undesired direction, but then we are stepping into rationality.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    PeJi: Gets the bulls moving, but knows when it's necessary to let them sit.
    JiPe: Lets the bulls sit, but knows when it's necessary to get them moving.

    JePi: Stops and corrals the bulls, but knows when to just ride and steer.
    PiJe: Steers the bulls while they move, but knows when to pull up.

    Alternately, imagine a car. Ji is at rest/idling, Pe is firing up the engine and accelerating, Pi is steering while it's moving, and Je is the brakes.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Pi is steering while it's moving.
    That is the only bit I am unsure about -- Ni and Si are about perceptions; if you steer it in any way, you are already stepping into rationality. Please note that I am talking about the function, not person; of course an IP will also steer it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  40. #40
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    But it's still in a moving state; rationality comes into play when it's stopped, either by the static state of being stopped, or the dynamic state of actively stopping.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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