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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Autism

    Do you think certain types are prone to autistic tendencies or AS, or if autistic people are more likely to be one or two types over another? Perhaps if they had Fe or Fi as a 4th function?

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    I think the types who may , on occasion, if not all the time, have behaviour similar to autism or similar disorders would be INTj, INTp and ISTp, though will obviously be prone to display different kinds of behaviour depending on the type. (Those are probably the types I think people might say 'oh, you're autistic!' IRL, whether or not they actually are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    I think the types who may , on occasion, if not all the time, have behaviour similar to autism or similar disorders would be INTj, INTp and ISTp, though will obviously be prone to display different kinds of behaviour depending on the type. (Those are probably the types I think people might say 'oh, you're autistic!' IRL, whether or not they actually are.
    Or on the board, as some have done before.
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    Yeah, who was it who was called autistic by FDG? They have his quote in their signature.
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    Authentic autism cases are rare; however, there are those in psychiatry who would label behaviors tied to one's IM-IE type combination autistic. Works of great genius, in particular, have been associated with autism by these people. I think it unlikely these people are, or were, truly autistic.

    Labcoat has made some interesting generalizations about the behavior of the various IM-IE pairings, and the way they affect our perceptions of the people who have them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Authentic autism cases are rare; however, there are those in psychiatry who would label behaviors tied to one's IM-IE type combination autistic. Works of great genius, in particular, have been associated with autism by these people. I think it unlikely these people are, or were, truly autistic.
    You mean autistic savants?
    I was meaning autistic savants, yeah. Steven Speilburg can hardly be compared with an austistic savant no matter what his psychiatrist says, and beyond autistics savantism I don't think the term really holds relevance. It is certainly no disorder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Authentic autism cases are rare; however, there are those in psychiatry who would label behaviors tied to one's IM-IE type combination autistic. Works of great genius, in particular, have been associated with autism by these people. I think it unlikely these people are, or were, truly autistic.
    You mean autistic savants?
    I was meaning autistic savants, yeah. Steven Speilburg can hardly be compared with an austistic savant no matter what his psychiatrist says, and beyond autistics savantism I don't think the term really holds relevance. It is certainly no disorder.
    I don't think it is unlikely that all of them were autistic. Autism doesn't automatically exclude you from things such as these.
    Do you know anything about autism?

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    Introversion can be considered slight autism in my opinion.
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    Autism can be considered slight introversion
    I agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Autism can be considered slight introversion
    I agree.
    No, no no no. Autism is a disorder. If you are saying those types are autistic, you are saying they have a psychological problem. That's the way it is, the INTjs are not going to let you by on anything less.

    What, do you believe introversion is a disorder? You know it might be fun to pile on you morons for once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Autism can be considered slight introversion
    I agree.
    No, no no no. Autism is a disorder. If you are saying those types are autistic, you are saying they have a psychological problem. That's the way it is, the INTjs are not going to let you by on anything less.

    What, do you believe introversion is a disorder? You know it might be fun to pile on you morons for once.
    dood mellow out! and stop trying to speak for whole groups of people ( you are one INTj... that is all you're speaking for) If others feel the same way let them speak for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Introversion can be considered slight autism in my opinion.
    If you are gonna put it like that, then extraversion is considered a slight bit of hysteria in my opinion.

    whaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    :wink:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Autism can be considered slight introversion
    I agree.
    No, no no no. Autism is a disorder. If you are saying those types are autistic, you are saying they have a psychological problem. That's the way it is, the INTjs are not going to let you by on anything less.

    What, do you believe introversion is a disorder? You know it might be fun to pile on you morons for once.
    dood mellow out! and stop trying to speak for whole groups of people ( you are one INTj... that is all you're speaking for) If others feel the same way let them speak for themselves.
    He is right about the rest of it anyway.
    he may be but this sort of stuff...

    You know it might be fun to pile on you morons for once.
    ...is just rediculous. like Tcaud commands some supersecret INTj army or something

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder
    I don't know how effective an INTj army would be. Democracy + Se PoLR.
    true... (they could question the enemy to death )

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    they would be able to build one hell of an advanced weapon.

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    You all know INTjs hate half-assed logic.

    Yeah I think we could get a general anti-ENFp party going in here if they're gonna keep this crap up. What do you say, INTjs?

    (Remember Robespierre always assembles a commitee to punish the offender. 7th function )

    The suggestiions that people who seem to act stereotypically is a sign of autism, or that a strong logical mind is a sign of autism, is one of the great modern travesties of modern psychology. That this stuff can be published -- even discussed in peer reviewed psychology journals -- is a testament to its degraded institutional state.

    Although, the recent anti-semitism charges against Jung are a sign of the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    You all know INTjs hate half-assed logic.

    Yeah I think we could get a general anti-ENFp party going in here if they're gonna keep this crap up. What do you say, INTjs?

    (Remember Robespierre always assembles a commitee to punish the offender. 7th function )

    The suggestiions that people who seem to act stereotypically is a sign of autism, or that a strong logical mind is a sign of autism, is one of the great modern travesties of modern psychology. That this stuff can be published -- even discussed in peer reviewed psychology journals -- is a testament to its degraded institutional state.

    Although, the recent anti-semitism charges against Jung are a sign of the same.
    Elro isn't even an ENFp... I'm sorry Tcaud, I try to stay out of your way but you can get a bit weird when you freak out like this (I'm not saying that your right or wrong about the other stuff, frankly I don't know or care about any of that) Maybe you're just trying to be dramatic in a funny way? I can't tell with you... but if you're serriously trying to get up a mob of INTjs to repress the ENFps I've got to say that's just weird (and not gunna happen)

    [/hijack]

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    Here's the more or less official word:
    http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Aut...r.27s_syndrome

    ENFps, get your facts straight before you come yelling that somebody is autistic.

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    http://www.geocities.com/richardg_uk/famousac.html

    Most inclined to be diagnosed as autistic (IMO) :

    1. ILI
    2. LSI
    3. LII
    4. ILE
    5. ESI
    6. SLE
    7. SEI
    8. LSE
    9. IEI
    10. SLI
    11. LIE
    12. SEE
    13. EII
    14. IEE
    15. EIE
    16. ESE

    I've even done it for Phitypes :

    Most likely (no order) :

    0-0
    000
    ---
    -0-
    0--
    00-
    0+-
    --0
    -00
    -+0
    +++
    --+
    +--
    +0-

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    My older brother is autistic. There's no way that you can type him because of it (I've typed all of my family members except for him). So really, trying to attribute types to autism is pretty useless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    My older brother is autistic. There's no way that you can type him because of it (I've typed all of my family members except for him). So really, trying to attribute types to autism is pretty useless.
    I'm referring to autism as lacking Theory of Mind, i.e. confusing one's mind with others' mind.

    Some forms of autism, especially Asperger Syndrome, don't render the typing process impossible (but may complicate it, especially when dealing with non-NT types)

    For example, my dad has AS, and he's ESI. My dad seems to have such thinking : "if I can do that, why won't he do !? what's wrong with that retard !?". Besides, though "outgoing" (myersian ESTJ), he has a very little feeling of need for social contact. He's socially repulsive, mistrusting and hostile.

    But AS is more prototypical of ILI or LSI, though. A prototypical autist would be an ILI --- or 0--.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    So really, trying to attribute types to autism is pretty useless.
    Not at all. It might be somewhat more difficult to type autistic people, but it is certainly not impossible. As I have mentioned many times, Einstein was autistic, and so was Wittgenstein. Both of these two thinkers have been typed by socionists, so at least they believe that it is possible to type autistics.

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    Well if they have a textbook case of autism, then intertype relations will be extremely skewed anyways, which completely defeats the purpose of Socionics, no?

    By the way, I'm not talking about Aspergers here. My bro's case is more severe than that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    By the way, I'm not talking about Aspergers here. My bro's case is more severe than that.
    Yes, but it is only a matter of degree. Asperger is a form of autism; it's the same phenomenon, only a "milder" version of it. And for the record, Einstein would probably have got the diagnosis high-functioning autism instead of Asperger, if he could have been diagnosed back then. The reason for that lies in his early child-hood, where he fits the criteria for autism better than the criteria for Asperger.

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    People with autism (esp aspergers) don't like to see themselves as mentally ill, and as something which is needing cured, they generally see it as more a personality thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    People with autism (esp aspergers) don't like to see themselves as mentally ill, and as something which is needing cured, they generally see it as more a personality thing.
    source?

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    source?
    I can't give you the source. Just people I've talked to, programmes i've watched and things i've read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    People with autism (esp aspergers) don't like to see themselves as mentally ill, and as something which is needing cured, they generally see it as more a personality thing.
    Autism is defined as a personality thing, and it is a personality thing. It can't be cured, because it is not an illness. You are simply born with a different than "normal" brain structure. Autism is a personality disorder, because it is a disorder in comparison with what is considered to be a "normal" personality, but not a single one of the ten personality disorders we usually talk about is an illness. Not even psychopaths are considered to be mentally ill. You cannot cure psychopathy, but you can cure schizophrenia, depression, etc. -- all of which are mentally illnesses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Autism is defined as a personality thing, and it is a personality thing. It can't be cured, because it is not an illness. You are simply born with a different than "normal" brain structure. Autism is a personality disorder, because it is a disorder in comparison with what is considered to be a "normal" personality, but not a single one of the ten personality disorders we usually talk about is an illness. Not even psychopaths are considered to be mentally ill. You cannot cure psychopathy, but you can cure schizophrenia, depression, etc. -- all of which are mentally illnesses.
    Yeah as far as I'm aware, psychopaths just don't experience emotion like most people do. For instance if you showed some pictures of for instance a table, then an injured puppy, whilst monitoring their brain activities, then nothing in the activity would change, in comparison to the statistical mean of the population where most people would record a change in activity due to a certain amount of empathy the injured animal would produce in them. Do you agree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    People with autism (esp aspergers) don't like to see themselves as mentally ill, and as something which is needing cured, they generally see it as more a personality thing.
    They aren't mentally ill whatsoever. They just have autistic-like thinking patterns. It's not necessarily unhealthy thinking, as long as it's no harm for mankind.

    Though and types tend to have such thinking patterns more than others, I don't think they should go to concentration camps.


    It's pretty much like when you refer to LII's as having "a light form of the Schizotypal Personality Disorder".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Yeah as far as I'm aware, psychopaths just don't experience emotion like most people do. For instance if you showed some pictures of for instance a table, then an injured puppy, whilst monitoring their brain activities, then nothing in the activity would change, in comparison to the statistical mean of the population where most people would record a change in activity due to a certain amount of empathy the injured animal would produce in them. Do you agree?
    Yes, that's one aspect of psychopathy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Yes, that's one aspect of psychopathy.
    At the risk of getting too of course on this thread, what would you say the other aspects are. Do you mean like remorse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    At the risk of getting too of course on this thread, what would you say the other aspects are?
    I'm not an expert on psychopathy; I have only read a couple of books and some articles on it. I know much more about autism. Wouldn't it be easier to read an article on psychopathy on the Internet than ask me? You could start with this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

    But if you insist, I think it could be worth mentioning a very clear and very important difference between autistic people and psychopaths. Psychopaths are pathological liars (that is one of the defining traits of that condition), whereas autistic people could perhaps be called "pathological" truth tellers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I'm not an expert on psychopathy; I have only read a couple of books and some articles on it. I know much more about autism. Wouldn't it be easier to read an article on psychopathy on the Internet than ask me? You could start with this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

    But if you insist, I think it could be worth mentioning a very clear and very important difference between autistic people and psychopaths. Psychopaths are pathological liars (that is one of the defining traits of that condition), whereas autistic people could perhaps be called "pathological" truth tellers.
    Asking you is easier, reading up on the internet I would imagine would be more informative But thanks, I liked your truth-lie observation.

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    Inappropriate laughing or crying : TP
    No real fear of dangers : NP or SJ
    Appearant insensitivity to pain : or
    May not want cuddling : NP
    Sustained unusual or repetitive play : Intuition
    Avoids eye contact : Intuition
    Prefers to be alone : Introtimness + Declarativeness
    Difficulty in expressing needs : Intuition
    Inappropriate attachments to objects : or
    Insistence on sameness : IJ
    Inappropriate/lacking response to sound : NP or SJ
    Difficulty in interacting with others : TP
    Last edited by machintruc; 02-09-2008 at 05:12 PM. Reason: auto-censored unrespectful sentences

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    Appearant insensitivity to pain : or
    Not so sure in regards to 'apparent' insensitivity, but to look at this part. As far as I'm aware, if you back to some of Ashura's writings, one of the aspects of Si is that it can regulate pain, perhaps to the extent of 'switching' it off. Is this what you meant? [/QUOTE]

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    All of the described traits can be found in autistic people, but only one of them is necessary. You can be autistic even if you lack several of them. Only the last one ("difficulty in interacting with others") is a defining trait of autism.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    My older brother is autistic. There's no way that you can type him because of it (I've typed all of my family members except for him). So really, trying to attribute types to autism is pretty useless.
    This is probably the most intelligent thing said in this whole thread.

    On some aspergers and autists support-group, they had tested what they would score. Over 200 people took the test. And over half of them scored as INTj, and the next largest group were ISTj's (about 20&#37. One geology professor, who also has AS, e-mailed me the results.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Everyone's gonna come out something if they sit a typing test. I'm just not convinced you'll get a valid result on someone with autism for a socionic test. As far as I'm aware, the theory was built around what is regarded 'normal' people, so socionics couldn't be relied on to give an accurate result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    On some aspergers and autists support-group, they had tested what they would score. Over 200 people took the test. And over half of them scored as INTj, and the next largest group were ISTj's (about 20%). One geology professor, who also has AS, e-mailed me the results.
    Well, do you see anything strange about that? And do you really think that such a result would support the thesis that autistic people are untypable. It does not, because there is a clear predominance of IT types among autists. It may even be the case that almost all of them are IT types. Ethical types are not autistic. I am not 100 % sure that they can't be, but I don't know one single example of it.

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