Socionics IQ Test

[Transigent]

I wanna get a quick and dirty estimation of the general level of sillyness that is bouncing around this forum these days.

SO, here is an easy easy easy Socionics question about someone you may know:

What type is UDP?

INTj/INFp/ENFj/Neither

Why UDP? Because this guy really is the most obvious example of a mistype in my view. Just the reaction to this should say something.

Okay, that's all for now.

[FDG]

Neither, in my opinion.

A Te-ENTj is what has run through my mind as of late.

[UDP]

Awesome. Ask questions, and so on, make your cases - I am interested in seeing where this goes.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Elro]

Neither, in my opinion.

A Te-ENTj is what has run through my mind as of late.

Yes. I've been meaning to throw together an argument for that and PM you, UDP, but... in short, you seem awkward with Fe (in a way that seems like role to me), you seem very concerned with Se, disapproving of Si, and you seem to have Gamma values. I can see how your awkwardness with Fe might lead you to think you need a dual that's strong with it, but when you're confronted with it it seems like you don't really know what to do. (An example with jelly grass comes to mind, but I'm too lazy to hunt it down at the moment.) You seek Fi in that you value close relationships highly, and you value the blunt truth over harmony. That's Te>Fe. It's not entirely imPOSSIBLE that you could be just a well-developed INTj, but the above makes me think ENTj.

[Expat]

I have difficulty seeing an ENTj starting a thread about his body hair. Among other things.

I think Ti IJ remains a good type for UDP.

[FDG]

Neither, in my opinion.

A Te-ENTj is what has run through my mind as of late.

Yes. I've been meaning to throw together an argument for that and PM you, UDP, but... in short, you seem awkward with Fe (in a way that seems like role to me), you seem very concerned with Se, disapproving of Si, and you seem to have Gamma values. I can see how your awkwardness with Fe might lead you to think you need a dual that's strong with it, but when you're confronted with it it seems like you don't really know what to do. (An example with jelly grass comes to mind, but I'm too lazy to hunt it down at the moment.) You seek Fi in that you value close relationships highly, and you value the blunt truth over harmony. That's Te>Fe. It's not entirely imPOSSIBLE that you could be just a well-developed INTj, but the above makes me think ENTj.

Yeah; in my opinion, if what he says about himself is correct, then he cannot have Alpha-quadra values. I do not see anything pointing towards the apex of merry-subjective over the apex of grave-objective.

[Expat]

Yeah; in my opinion, if what he says about himself is correct, then he cannot have Alpha-quadra values. I do not see anything pointing towards the apex of merry-subjective over the apex of grave-objective.

I agree that he does not seem to fit Alpha.

[Blaze]

udp got dubbed as an intj cuz he initially seemed weird. but i don't know his type. but i don't think he and i get along very well, not when i compare with say thehotelambush, ms. k, oyburger.

[Sorc]

It is amazingly clear to me why someone would not benefit from having an ESFj as a dual -- like an ESFj and an ENFj couple. So I do not realistically feel like everyone should have an ESE dual.

I could see myself managing a relationship with any of the FJs. My small experience with duality makes me wonder about the weakness that it presents. ...However, if an ESE who is healthy in both body and mindset comes across me and wants to be in a relationship with me, it could very likely happen.

that what UDP said in other forum thread about duality.....
ESFj + ISTj = semidual, not dual, other Fj = ENFj
also last sentence contain will, some percfectionistic "demand" of things being right.

ISTj?

[Expat]

I think ISTj-Ti makes more sense than ENTj-Te.

[Elro]

I think ISTj-Ti makes more sense than ENTj-Te.

This would make some sense in that I was wondering how an ENTj-Te would not figure out he wasn't INTj after all this time... It also is a less drastic jump.

What about this, though:

You seek Fi in that you value close relationships highly, and you value the blunt truth over harmony. That's Te>Fe.

I'm pretty sure he has said he was both of those things, though perhaps I was mistaken in attributing them to the functions I did.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[UDP]

I surely will have to do a video response at some point.

[krieger]

He seems intuitive, but where's the thinking? Can anyone here imagine UDP defending a position he knows is correct despite that it isn't commonly accepted as such? Such behavior is fundamental to use of a thinking function, and we see very little of it in his posts.

[Logos]

He seems intuitive, but where's the thinking? Can anyone here imagine UDP defending a position he knows is correct despite that it isn't commonly accepted as such? Such behavior is fundamental to use of a thinking function, and we see very little of it in his posts.

So what would you suggest? INFj? INFp? ENFj?

[Kristiina]

I remember some pictures. Definitely didn't seem like ISTj. My first impression for him was IP temperament, which is kinda the opposite of the sturdy ISTj posture.
I voted INTj.

[UDP]

He seems intuitive, but where's the thinking? Can anyone here imagine UDP defending a position he knows is correct despite that it isn't commonly accepted as such? Such behavior is fundamental to use of a thinking function, and we see very little of it in his posts.

Gilligan typed me as INFp. The older members should remember my reaction.



editing

[UDP]

It seems like ENTps - like Elro - come up with all these ideas about how I am this or that, but never back it up. Too much tangential Ne.

[Animal]

I was under the impression that "neither" was only applicable when you only have 2 other options; i.e. "neither X nor Y".

Yeah, it should be "None of the above."

[Elro]

It seems like ENTps - like Elro - come up with all these ideas about how I am this or that, but never back it up. Too much tangential Ne.

Give me a little while and I will back up everything I said in my paragraph. I don't feel like it at the moment, but will do so before I go to sleep.

I would also love to see you back up your claim that I'm ENTp, btw.

[olduser]

He has demonstrated very little of his real personality. He consistently masks his actions and descriptions of prior actions under type descriptions/quotables. What the fuck do we really know about him?

[FDG]

Neither, in my opinion.

A Te-ENTj is what has run through my mind as of late.

Yes. I've been meaning to throw together an argument for that and PM you, UDP, but... in short, you seem awkward with Fe (in a way that seems like role to me), you seem very concerned with Se, disapproving of Si, and you seem to have Gamma values. I can see how your awkwardness with Fe might lead you to think you need a dual that's strong with it, but when you're confronted with it it seems like you don't really know what to do. (An example with jelly grass comes to mind, but I'm too lazy to hunt it down at the moment.) You seek Fi in that you value close relationships highly, and you value the blunt truth over harmony. That's Te>Fe. It's not entirely imPOSSIBLE that you could be just a well-developed INTj, but the above makes me think ENTj.

Yeah; in my opinion, if what he says about himself is correct, then he cannot have Alpha-quadra values. I do not see anything pointing towards the apex of merry-subjective over the apex of grave-objective.

A couple of things to keep in mind:

The secondary/creative function is a semi-effective function. The rules of this secondary function will not hold from time to time. (Because if they DID that secondary function would be the main one, and the person would then become their mirror type.) So, strictly speaking, even if there were situations numerous enough to say with any certainty that, yes, this person does seem to value traits common to Te types over traits common to Fe types, that really is only proof of the person not being Fe dominant.

Another example. We can say that "this person is too irrational and emotional to be ISTj" but it isn't AS correct to say "this person too irrational and emotional to be ESTp" because the nature of percieving types is to be somewhat undecided regarding the T-F from time to time.

I completely agree with you, yes. However keep in mind this: even if we say an irrational cannot be judged as being too rational to be irrational, woulnd't you say that over a timespan of a year, rational behavior indicates rationality? Being undecided means either randomization, or at least a presence of something near 40-60 of either rationality or irrationality. The almost complete lack of irrationality points towards rationality, in the end.

Secondly, the Reinin Dichotomies have some flaws, in particular one that I am looking at right now (assuming that Merry/Subjective vs. Grave/Objective is a R.Dic. as far as I remember it is)

There is the theoretical derivation in the spirit of the Renin dicotomies that divides Merry as being quadras and Grave as being quadras. This may be fine within the THEORY of the Rein Dich. however when you begin to look at actual people who have these types and quadras it isn't as simple as the original hypothesis suggests.

To verify this, all you have to do really is to look at some information concerning the differences in the Alpha and Beta quadras as regards the expression of . Specifically, in Alpha is blocked with a different function then is Beta's witch is blocked with . This may be a tenuous theory (I don't really buy the "blocking") however it is more correct, as we see that Beta is more dramatic, and "epic", where Alpha is more down to earth. We see this in reality, regardles of what theory is invented to try to produce this result from simpler concepts.

It's obviously true. But what I'm referring to isn't the denomination of the words merry/grave but more their manifestations in real world behaviour that is, grave people will have a tendency to talk about matters as they refer to generally accepted concepts - this is what makes Te sound like "work, work, work" and "copycat" , it's just that it's meant to refer to generalities and they're the most general of all generalities - wheras Merry types will tend towards aprioristic stances that do not relate to generally accepted concepts - this makes them appear dogmatic when they discuss Ti matters, Ti doesn't have to be universalized to be true in the speaker's mind, and thus from the outside can look imposing since it doesn't flow with the environmental circumstances as Te does.
The contrast is reversed in feeling matters where Te types will seem to be more dogmatic since their Fi is not bound to generally accepted external circumstances as is Ti types Fe.

[Elro]

I completely agree with you, yes. However keep in mind this: even if we say an irrational cannot be judged as being too rational to be irrational, woulnd't you say that over a timespan of a year, rational behavior indicates rationality? Being undecided means either randomization, or at least a presence of something near 40-60 of either rationality or irrationality. The almost complete lack of irrationality points towards rationality, in the end.

Uh, what?

[FDG]

I completely agree with you, yes. However keep in mind this: even if we say an irrational cannot be judged as being too rational to be irrational, woulnd't you say that over a timespan of a year, rational behavior indicates rationality? Being undecided means either randomization, or at least a presence of something near 40-60 of either rationality or irrationality. The almost complete lack of irrationality points towards rationality, in the end.

Uh, what?

I find it hard to put in words what I mean. I'll try later.

[Logos]

He has demonstrated very little of his real personality. He consistently masks his actions and descriptions of prior actions under type descriptions/quotables. What the fuck do we really know about him?

He frequently asks for college/major/"life purpose" advice.

[UDP]

He frequently asks for college/major/"life purpose" advice.

It seems like numerous people on this forum, particularly niffweed (INTp), do not understand why I do things like that. I asked for advice on everything, because this population is a good sample of diverse insights on matters. So keep in mind why I do what I do, not necessarily what you or someone else supposes that motivation to be.

Sometimes I will "conceptually fish" - that is, throw topics out to see what people make of them. This seems to confuse many people, though I do not know why. It is not because I do not think for myself, or am incompetent, but because I look for ideas and comparisons - always looking for possible improvement or increases in effectiveness, regardless of convention.


Oh, and, one more thing - I have said it before, and I will say it again: I am not an ethical type. If you are really unsure about my T or F preference, then you should be very worried about the quality of your understanding.

[olduser]

we are completely willing to change our understanding to make you an ethical type. Exceptions will be made to forge your self-perception.

[UDP]

As you wish. If you do not want to take my advice, then so be it - why not construct an argument for me being an ethical type, it should be easy enough.

[Elro]

Damn, I'm still too lazy to find exact threads. I'll at least try to explain my points a little better.

in short, you seem awkward with Fe (in a way that seems like role to me)

When joking is going on (especially Alphaish joking), you seem to be a little bit on the outside, like you can't quite match it. This might be weak Ne, in retrospect, but at the time of my original post I interpreted it as Fe awkwardness.

you seem very concerned with Se

You want to accomplish things in life, you are concerned about willpower. This could be interpreted (and I suspect you were doing so) as attempting to attack your PoLR. However... even in choosing to attack your PoLR you seemed very determined. Damn, this isn't translating well into words either.

disapproving of Si

See that thread about the old retired couple that did nothing but laze around. You sort of sneered at it (or at least that was my read) and saw it as unacceptable. Not the typical way to view one's Hidden Agenda. You also

and you seem to have Gamma values.

You've identified numerous times with Gamma viewpoints (how Gammas perceive other quadras thread, and I think in one of Ezra's threads you highlighted a lot). I'm not 100% sure you're Gamma, but I'm pretty sure you're not Alpha. You don't seem to have the same vibe as most of the Alpha members, although I realize that's vague (and not worthy of a conclusion on its own).

I can see how your awkwardness with Fe might lead you to think you need a dual that's strong with it, but when you're confronted with it it seems like you don't really know what to do. (An example with jelly grass comes to mind, but I'm too lazy to hunt it down at the moment.)

The jelly grass example was when jelly grass made a joke (something about duals and being beautiful or something) and you seemed to completely miss it. And when she pointed out she was joking, it seemed like an awkward save. Again, could be weak Ne just as well as weak Fe. I really don't know why I attributed it to weak Fe when I did, except it was sort of an atmospheric blunder.

You seek Fi in that you value close relationships highly,

You've said this numerous times.

and you value the blunt truth over harmony. That's Te>Fe.

You've said yourself that you seek the truth and that nothing else matters - that you refuse to hide things from yourself. I'm not sure if that's Te or Ti, but it seems like Te would fit this well, as it wouldn't neglect incoming data. Then again, your type has been questioned numerous times and you seem to look for a doubt and grab it. Not that you're the only one who does that. But still.

He frequently asks for college/major/"life purpose" advice.

Not sure if this was what you were getting at, but the last one especially could be Ni hidden agenda. Looking for long-term direction and stuff.

Anyway, unless someone directly asks me something, that's all I'll really say on this matter for now - I'm stepping back and seeing what people (including/especially UDP) end up with.

[Creepy-bg]

Damn, I'm still too lazy to find exact threads. I'll at least try to explain my points a little better.

in short, you seem awkward with Fe (in a way that seems like role to me)

When joking is going on (especially Alphaish joking), you seem to be a little bit on the outside, like you can't quite match it. This might be weak Ne, in retrospect, but at the time of my original post I interpreted it as Fe awkwardness.

you seem very concerned with Se

You want to accomplish things in life, you are concerned about willpower. This could be interpreted (and I suspect you were doing so) as attempting to attack your PoLR. However... even in choosing to attack your PoLR you seemed very determined. Damn, this isn't translating well into words either.

disapproving of Si

See that thread about the old retired couple that did nothing but laze around. You sort of sneered at it (or at least that was my read) and saw it as unacceptable. Not the typical way to view one's Hidden Agenda. You also

and you seem to have Gamma values.

You've identified numerous times with Gamma viewpoints (how Gammas perceive other quadras thread, and I think in one of Ezra's threads you highlighted a lot). I'm not 100% sure you're Gamma, but I'm pretty sure you're not Alpha. You don't seem to have the same vibe as most of the Alpha members, although I realize that's vague (and not worthy of a conclusion on its own).

I can see how your awkwardness with Fe might lead you to think you need a dual that's strong with it, but when you're confronted with it it seems like you don't really know what to do. (An example with jelly grass comes to mind, but I'm too lazy to hunt it down at the moment.)

The jelly grass example was when jelly grass made a joke (something about duals and being beautiful or something) and you seemed to completely miss it. And when she pointed out she was joking, it seemed like an awkward save. Again, could be weak Ne just as well as weak Fe. I really don't know why I attributed it to weak Fe when I did, except it was sort of an atmospheric blunder.

You seek Fi in that you value close relationships highly,

You've said this numerous times.

and you value the blunt truth over harmony. That's Te>Fe.

You've said yourself that you seek the truth and that nothing else matters - that you refuse to hide things from yourself. I'm not sure if that's Te or Ti, but it seems like Te would fit this well, as it wouldn't neglect incoming data. Then again, your type has been questioned numerous times and you seem to look for a doubt and grab it. Not that you're the only one who does that. But still.

He frequently asks for college/major/"life purpose" advice.

Not sure if this was what you were getting at, but the last one especially could be Ni hidden agenda. Looking for long-term direction and stuff.

Anyway, unless someone directly asks me something, that's all I'll really say on this matter for now - I'm stepping back and seeing what people (including/especially UDP) end up with.

Whoa!!! Elro pulls an Expat

[Joy]

UDP and I have discussed his type many times. I don't know what his type is. Somehow he seems almost like a cross between me and the INTj I was with. I have no trouble seeing him as a Se > Si type, and I've never seen any clear indication that he doesn't value Te. I also don't see any reason he couldn't be INTj.

[UDP]

It is Joy - Hello, and thanks for stopping by.

[Joy]

[FDG]

Very good argument Elro, very good.

[Blaze]

Damn, I'm still too lazy to find exact threads. I'll at least try to explain my points a little better.

in short, you seem awkward with Fe (in a way that seems like role to me)

When joking is going on (especially Alphaish joking), you seem to be a little bit on the outside, like you can't quite match it. This might be weak Ne, in retrospect, but at the time of my original post I interpreted it as Fe awkwardness.

you seem very concerned with Se

You want to accomplish things in life, you are concerned about willpower. This could be interpreted (and I suspect you were doing so) as attempting to attack your PoLR. However... even in choosing to attack your PoLR you seemed very determined. Damn, this isn't translating well into words either.

disapproving of Si

See that thread about the old retired couple that did nothing but laze around. You sort of sneered at it (or at least that was my read) and saw it as unacceptable. Not the typical way to view one's Hidden Agenda. You also

and you seem to have Gamma values.

You've identified numerous times with Gamma viewpoints (how Gammas perceive other quadras thread, and I think in one of Ezra's threads you highlighted a lot). I'm not 100% sure you're Gamma, but I'm pretty sure you're not Alpha. You don't seem to have the same vibe as most of the Alpha members, although I realize that's vague (and not worthy of a conclusion on its own).

I can see how your awkwardness with Fe might lead you to think you need a dual that's strong with it, but when you're confronted with it it seems like you don't really know what to do. (An example with jelly grass comes to mind, but I'm too lazy to hunt it down at the moment.)

The jelly grass example was when jelly grass made a joke (something about duals and being beautiful or something) and you seemed to completely miss it. And when she pointed out she was joking, it seemed like an awkward save. Again, could be weak Ne just as well as weak Fe. I really don't know why I attributed it to weak Fe when I did, except it was sort of an atmospheric blunder.

You seek Fi in that you value close relationships highly,

You've said this numerous times.

and you value the blunt truth over harmony. That's Te>Fe.

You've said yourself that you seek the truth and that nothing else matters - that you refuse to hide things from yourself. I'm not sure if that's Te or Ti, but it seems like Te would fit this well, as it wouldn't neglect incoming data. Then again, your type has been questioned numerous times and you seem to look for a doubt and grab it. Not that you're the only one who does that. But still.

He frequently asks for college/major/"life purpose" advice.

Not sure if this was what you were getting at, but the last one especially could be Ni hidden agenda. Looking for long-term direction and stuff.

Anyway, unless someone directly asks me something, that's all I'll really say on this matter for now - I'm stepping back and seeing what people (including/especially UDP) end up with.

Whoa!!! Elro pulls an Expat

i was just thinking almost the exact same thing! :-) nice job on this elro.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Blaze]

... UDP is not a T type.

Why?

if he's not a T type transigent then he is certainly on a head trip. what that indicates i don't know but i don't see Fe.

[Not A Communist Shill]

I don't think UDP is ISTj > INTj - often he withdraws or alters posts if he perceives the response isn't quite right, or people don't take him seriously, as though he considers 'maybe the time isn't right yet - some other time, perhaps'. It seems to cost him too much energy to explain himself to absolutely everybody and with absolutely every point - he prolly thinks what he has said is succinct and lucid as it is. Maybe he doesn't like a hostile atmosphere, or an ambiguous response.

He often sounds like some wizened sage who has been living in the Tibetan mountains for thousands of years - he seems to have maxims that he has considered over vast quantities of time, and might seem slightly archaic (and depersonalised too). He doesn't force these on people - he seems reluctant to do so - 'these are truths I have observed, take them or leave them'. His language sounds like he read a book about how humans act, and emulated that - he doesn't act exactly as mere mortals ought to .

INFps on the otherhand either seem uncertain of what they are saying, or what views they hold, because they consider that they haven't had enough data on the subject, or they wear their hearts on their sleeves. UDP seems to know what he knows (as per the INTj descriptions), he is just humble in showing it - he's as certain as he could possibly be considering all the facts he has ever considered, but ultimately, that isn't complete certainty. So, I still consider him INTj, basically :wink: .

(Most people considered MysticSonic INTj, and yet he doesn't seem so dissimilar to UDP).

[Blaze]

maybe udp is just an Ne subtype of intj.