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Thread: ISTj description written by ISTp from socion.info

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    Default ISTj description written by ISTp from socion.info

    From: http://socion.info/ISTJ2.html

    The Resilient ISTj

    By Jacob R. Zemon [ISTp]


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    “People have to be given the freedom to show the heart they possess. I think it’s a leader’s responsibility to provide that type of freedom. And I believe it can be done through relationships and family. Because if a team is a real family, it’s members want to show you their hearts.” ~ Mike Krzyzewski
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Most ISTjs are quickly perceived as quite, thoughtful and steady when viewed from a distance. They are the “inspectors” in society. Their thought process seems to be slow, through, and meticulous. This is because they do not trust their ability to juggle many things at once, but prefer deep, sequential evaluations. They love clarity and consistency, and often shun unexpected changes or disorganization. They sometimes like to show a dominant appearance; chest out, back stiff, and preferring to look at an angle down on people. They are steady and controlled with their movements. When ISTjs smile, it is usually a small, confident smile, yet not big enough to show off their teeth.

    ISTjs attempt to control themselves and their emotions most of the time. They value being patient, considerate, and objective while dealing with people. This can change, however, when you test their patience too long. They can sometimes be susceptible to sudden changes in attitude, and become overly aggressive. When this happens, they raise their voice, criticizing what they consider to be the “wrongs” done, gesticulating wildly. ISTjs are stalwarts who love power and control, and they like their presence to be known. They can get very upset when they feel like people aren’t paying attention to them while they are speaking.

    ISTjs pay a lot of attention to details while working. They don’t always view everything at the same time, but they try and uncover every stone. They take a clear, narrow view at one particular fact, then dig through, meticulously and analytically, to slowly reveal and see the whole picture; not vaguely and intuitively, but clearly and confidently. In this respect, they value a certain quality much higher than a lot of quantity. The work that ISTjs do they do with effort and dedication. Everything, including their free time, must have a purpose to an ISTj. They are willful, and are usually good at getting the work done that is required.

    An ISTj will usually have a high respect for authority and rules, and expects that everyone follow societal norms. A person high up in the order is considered a superior, and they attempt to show respect for them even if they truly believe that their “superior” is under qualified. ISTjs are generally independent, proud workers. They enjoy it when people show responsibility and morality in their actions. They attempt to be non-judgmental and tactful with people, but sometimes this is hard for them to maintain.

    ISTjs like to keep people and their surroundings regimented and are demanding of people around them. They’d prefer to keep things in their perfect place, not changing unnecessarily. They can be become uneasy around too much change, and prefer things to be planned out. Once they find the “right” way to do something, they generally keep and obeyed by it. They are not spontaneous, but pensive and cautious, wanting time for correct and honest evaluations.

    ISTjs generally prefer to the outdoors and experiencing things for themselves. They may not care much about learning from books, although they will tolerate it to a point. Some ISTjs enjoy nature. They analyze and observe sport with the same attention they put into everything else. They are empirical, and will only believe what they can see and experience for themselves. They may not respect your intelligence if you make too many mistakes and don’t show the carefulness that they do.

    If you are considered special to the ISTj, they will be loyal, responsible, and compassionate. They can sometimes be overly serious, although they respect courage and commitment. If you can fit into the ISTjs idea of rules and structure, then they will try their best to keep a stable, meaningful relationship with you.

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    This is a good description, it might be a tad severe. Ive known many ISTJs. The older ones with authority can be a pain. I think istjs should work alone and not be put in charge of people except in prisons.

    Topaz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    This is a good description, it might be a tad severe. Ive known many ISTJs. The older ones with authority can be a pain. I think istjs should work alone and not be put in charge of people except in prisons.

    Topaz
    Rocky wrote it to contrast my own, but it describes my father really well so I would also say that it is a good ISTj description.

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    This is a good description, it might be a tad severe. Ive known many ISTJs. The older ones with authority can be a pain. I think istjs should work alone and not be put in charge of people except in prisons.
    Extraverted Intution Introverted Feeling
    Topaz
    Bah, one of my favorite professors is an ISTJ. He's actually very patient, a hell of a lot more patient, polite, and willing to work with students then the INTJs I know. You can tell he's someone who takes his teaching role seriously. There's also something refreshing about him since he truly is a "what you see is what you get" kind of person.

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    Severe? I thought I was taking the perspective of the LSIs NOT being evil? Where was I overly harsh? And didn't I mention that that LSIs are generally patient?
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Severe? I thought I was taking the perspective of the LSIs NOT being evil? Where was I overly harsh? And didn't I mention that that LSIs are generally patient?
    I agree, LSIs are not evil any more than any other type. I was thinking of the not smiling big enough to see teeth part and sudden changes in attitude to being overly aggressive, or being upset when they dont get attention. I suppose these are things that are characteristic of some LSI but the ones I know this behavior would be out of character. They can be control freaks but only when something falls under their jurisdiction, for example boss/ employee, parent/child. The complexities of relations weigh heavy on them though and sometimes they throw their hands up.
    Anyway good job. Dont feel you have to change it, I just had my observation.
    I would like to see your version of the SLI profile if you could make one.
    Plus, whats the deal with the SLI making up their mind so quick about stuff? Do they really mean eveything they decide or are they waiting for more convicing information? Sometimes they barely have any information and they have made up their mind about something. Then they miss out on an opportunity that would have been really good. I just find it hard to believe they dont even care to find out motive or reasons behind things or care for anymore detail before making decisions. This is coming from my experience with SOME SLIs so dont take it as a universal statement.
    And Please Lets hear from you other SLIs too. Arcadia are you still with us....?

    Topaz

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    I did make an SLI description.

    http://socion.info/ISTP2.html

    As for making up our mind on stuff, maybe what you are describing is lazyness. But I generally take a lot of time when investigating something of interest to me.. a LOT of time.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Oh wow was that there all along and I missed it. What happen to Camerons? OK I'll check it out.

    Topaz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    Oh wow was that there all along and I missed it. What happen to Camerons? OK I'll check it out.

    Topaz
    It is still there, apparently the socion.info webpage has two ISTp and two ISTj descriptions now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    I did make an SLI description.

    http://socion.info/ISTP2.html
    That's the best ISTP profile I have ever read. It describes me perfectly, from the headline till the last sentence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    As for making up our mind on stuff, maybe what you are describing is lazyness. But I generally take a lot of time when investigating something of interest to me.. a LOT of time.
    That's right. :wink:

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    Sane ISTjs aren't all that bad really, it's the few rotten ones like Jerry Falwell that spoil everyone's perception of the bunch.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    I know lots of ISTjs, and PTL basically summed up my opinion of many of them. They're not the "boring robots" or aggressive jerks that they're always made out to be.
    , Se-sub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    I did make an SLI description.

    http://socion.info/ISTP2.html
    That's the best ISTP profile I have ever read. It describes me perfectly, from the headline till the last sentence.
    Wow, thanks!


    @PTL, Herzblut, Mysticsonic, ect: do you think the LSI description was too harsh? I wasn't trying to be, really. I originally tried to write that in defense of them because McNew's view of them seemed to be like bullies. I do know there are a lot of good LSIs, but I tried to cover the whole thing. Yeah, there was the agressive part in there, but some ARE like that. That doesn't mean all get to that point. One of my teacher's was an LSI and he was very patient. Hell, I liked the guy some much he even wrote a teacher recomendation for me for college. I wouldn't mind editing it where people see fit.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Default Re: ISTp perspective ISTj description [from socion.info]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Their thought process seems to be slow, through, and meticulous. This is because they do not trust their ability to juggle many things at once, but prefer deep, sequential evaluations.
    That sounds stupid. What you take as being slow can also be seen as trying to apply the arrived logic in a way that would be acceptable to all parties involved. In other words they are not slow in thinking about a thing but in thinking about the thing + the myriads of implications that arise from it. That process could be construed as juggling many things at once.
    --> I didn't mean for it to sound "stupid", but more that they take thier time with things. I did mention "thorough" and "deep,sequential evaluations".

    They sometimes like to show a dominant appearance; chest out, back stiff, and preferring to look at an angle down on people. They are steady and controlled with their movements. When ISTjs smile, it is usually a small, confident smile, yet not big enough to show off their teeth.
    Many of them are quite subtle in the way they manipulate personal relations so they DO NOT try to be dominant because by doing this they would lose influence. Also I do not think they are aware (necessarily) of how they influence people in those ways. Their smiles can be almost goofy in a way.
    -->umm...?

    are stalwarts who love power and control, and they like their presence to be known.
    Once again the degree to which this is consciously done seems to be quite variable.

    They may not care much about learning from books, although they will tolerate it to a point.
    Some of them LOVE to read. They just stop when books can't teach them anymore.
    --> I'm not so sure about that part, they don't seem to read just for reading sake.

    They are empirical, and will only believe what they can see and experience for themselves. They may not respect your intelligence if you make too many mistakes and don’t show the carefulness that they do.
    They believe things if they are logically cohesive in addition to the above. Also in light of the mistakes thing this article needs to be checked for spelling.
    --> Yeah, I need to edit those mistakes. You could also be right here.

    If you can fit into the ISTjs idea of rules and structure, then they will try their best to keep a stable, meaningful relationship with you.
    Again the level to which this is done consciously is extremely variable. They usually do not believe in rules for rules sake but rather because they make sense.
    --> Yet, they still have rules, and like to keep structure. I didn't say that it was illogical.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Default Re: ISTp perspective ISTj description [from socion.info]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Their thought process seems to be slow, through, and meticulous. This is because they do not trust their ability to juggle many things at once, but prefer deep, sequential evaluations.
    That sounds stupid. What you take as being slow can also be seen as trying to apply the arrived logic in a way that would be acceptable to all parties involved. In other words they are not slow in thinking about a thing but in thinking about the thing + the myriads of implications that arise from it. That process could be construed as juggling many things at once.

    They sometimes like to show a dominant appearance; chest out, back stiff, and preferring to look at an angle down on people. They are steady and controlled with their movements. When ISTjs smile, it is usually a small, confident smile, yet not big enough to show off their teeth.
    Many of them are quite subtle in the way they manipulate personal relations so they DO NOT try to be dominant because by doing this they would lose influence. Also I do not think they are aware (necessarily) of how they influence people in those ways. Their smiles can be almost goofy in a way.

    are stalwarts who love power and control, and they like their presence to be known.
    Once again the degree to which this is consciously done seems to be quite variable.

    They may not care much about learning from books, although they will tolerate it to a point.
    Some of them LOVE to read. They just stop when books can't teach them anymore.

    They are empirical, and will only believe what they can see and experience for themselves. They may not respect your intelligence if you make too many mistakes and don’t show the carefulness that they do.
    They believe things if they are logically cohesive in addition to the above. Also in light of the mistakes thing this article needs to be checked for spelling.

    If you can fit into the ISTjs idea of rules and structure, then they will try their best to keep a stable, meaningful relationship with you.
    Again the level to which this is done consciously is extremely variable. They usually do not believe in rules for rules sake but rather because they make sense.
    Pedro, I disagree with alot of this criticism here ... my father is ISTj and this description describes him fairly well and I relate to it. Other than maybe some spell-checking, I think he did a good job.

    And I disagree with you about ISTjs not always wanting to appear as though they are trying to dominate. Many of them have just learned that they can dominate and make up or get away with it if they act polite at a certain time later on. That is why I dispise them and hate the way the act, I can see pass the politeness or whatever disguise or excuse they use and note that they are really just overbearing dumbfucks towards people and anything really. I hate being around them because of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    @PTL, Herzblut, Mysticsonic, ect: do you think the LSI description was too harsh?
    Nah, it's fine.
    , Se-sub
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    Thanks Pedro, I will reword/edit some parts of the description when I have the time.

    And on that note, does anyone have any criticism on my SLI description.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Thanks Pedro, I will reword/edit some parts of the description when I have the time.

    And on that note, does anyone have any criticism on my SLI description.
    Yeah, I think it should include more warmth. You left out how SLI loves to wear bright colors and sing show tunes

    Topaz

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    Quote Originally Posted by NFp-
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    And on that note, does anyone have any criticism on my SLI description.
    Can you expand it to include their behaviours in relationships? Towards their friends, family and partner.
    Sure, that's a good idea, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Thanks Pedro, I will reword/edit some parts of the description when I have the time.

    And on that note, does anyone have any criticism on my SLI description.
    Yeah, I think it should include more warmth. You left out how SLI loves to wear bright colors and sing show tunes

    Topaz
    *shudders*
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  20. #20
    Creepy-ENFPerator

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    Some of the ISTJ's I have met are eccentric, interesting and pleasant people, the rest aren't. Especially I like ISTJ females (sensory subtype), because they can be really funny. I' m trying to respect their opinions, may be that's why I didn't have major problems with ISTJs, although I'm an ENFP. My parents (INFJ and ESFP) nerv me more then all ISTJs together.

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    Default Re: ISTp perspective ISTj description [from socion.info]

    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    And I disagree with you about ISTjs not always wanting to appear as though they are trying to dominate. Many of them have just learned that they can dominate and make up or get away with it if they act polite at a certain time later on. That is why I dispise them and hate the way the act, I can see pass the politeness or whatever disguise or excuse they use and note that they are really just overbearing dumbfucks towards people and anything really. I hate being around them because of that.
    I'd like to add some comments on the "politeness" or "aggressiveness" of ISTjs.

    The three ISTjs I know/knew very well are all very polite, even to people they actually dislike or despise. All of them justified/explained that with the argument "people aren't honest" or "in life, you can't always be sincere".

    ISTjs are pure empiricists, as has already been noted; and they are very poor at understanding people's emotions, motivations and reactions, which makes them unconfident in this regard.

    So my impression is that their politeness is a manifestation of their lack of confidence in dealing with people and of their empirical conclusion, based on their bafflement when dealing with people, that people are dishonest all the time anyway.

    And once ISTjs reach a conclusion based on empirical data - however incomplete and faulty these are - ISTjs become utterly convinced of of that conclusion, and no amount of arguments based on theory or principles is going to make them change their minds.

    So I don't even think that they're being consciously or intentionally hypocritical or manipulative - - they're acting the way they think they have to act, or the way most other people do.

    Having said that, I agree with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    I think istjs should work alone and not be put in charge of people except in prisons.

    Topaz
    Again, once ISTjs have reached a conclusion based on their empirical data - however wrong their interpretation, or however incomplete their data - they become inflexible in their belief in that conclusion, and in their implementation of whatever is necessary due to their conclusion.

    Perhaps this, uh, "self-brainwashing" is a consequence of their hidden agenda?

    If an ISTj has concluded, based on a few observations, that people who don't wash their cars every week are slackers that can't be relied to do any work properly, the ISTj will use that as a criterion when hiring, or firing, people - and be ruthless and inflexible. Intuitive types can argue forever with an ISTj that that makes no sense - it won't work.

    Also - and I'm giving a real-life example here - if an ISTj has concluded that only by participating in team sports do you develop social skills that enable you to work in a team, you can forget about changing their minds about that.

    However - - and that is the most exasperating thing, in my opinion - - they will be utterly convinced that they're being fair and correct, since they are totally convinced of their dumbass conclusions.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  22. #22
    Creepy-ENFPerator

    Default Re: ISTp perspective ISTj description [from socion.info]

    ISTjs are stalwarts who love power and control

    If you can fit into the ISTjs idea of rules and structure, then they will try their best to keep a stable, meaningful relationship with you.
    I think they rather want to take responsibility for something, somebody than simply dominate and control. Control freaks might not fit for particular (if not the most part) ISTjs.

    Well if you don't intentionally try to break their rules, they will try.

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