View Poll Results: Has my hidden agenda activity been PoLR slapping your vulnerable ?

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Thread: A quick question for the ISTps and INTps

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    Default A quick question for the ISTps and INTps ...

    I been receiving alot of attention due in part with what has been happening with the socion.info website, and this has caused my to flare up alot and to post alot of stuff I probably would not normally post.

    Be honest ... has my hidden agenda activity been PoLR slapping your vulnerable ?

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    No, but Slava's has.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Hmmm, I know Rocky has seemed bugged by me lately ... I was wondering.

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    Maybe I've been missing something, but what's the problem that Rocky is irritated about?
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    What is "PoLR"?
    "Wenn der Deutsche in einen Satz taucht, dann hat man ihn die längste Zeit gesehen, bis er auf der anderen Seite des Ozeans wieder auftaucht mit seinem Verb im Mund." - Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    No, but Slava's has.
    Wow, it's the opposite for me.

    I guess it has more to do with things like McNew's ego lately, and dislike for types like LSI. Plus, I think a lot of the information he writes about is more personal than type related. For example, he likes to claim that ILEs are socially defunct or whatever and even wrote, "Most ENTps tend to not marry until their 30s, if at all" in his description of ILEs. I don't know where he learned that kind of thing, but I'd bet this isn't common for most ILEs. I have known ILEs who aren't really "socially defunct".

    ... and I'm not trying to attack you, but sometimes criticism is a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gronau
    What is "PoLR"?
    Place of Least Resistance- the fourth (weak concious) function.

    http://the16types.info/models.php
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Maybe I've been missing something, but what's the problem that Rocky is irritated about?
    It sort of qued me in that he was irritated by my sudden manifestation of when he replied and said I was offensive over at the socion.info forums.

    http://socion.info/forums/index.php?showtopic=154

    I thought about it later and realized what I said probably would offend someone with a PoLR ... the problem is that it is something totally unconscious for me and I do not realize I am doing it.

    Not to say that I have not been offended at times, but that is more than likely what is going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    No, but Slava's has.
    Wow, it's the opposite for me.

    I guess it has more to do with things like McNew's ego lately, and dislike for types like LSI. Plus, I think a lot of the information he writes about is more personal than type related. For example, he likes to claim that ILEs are socially defunct or whatever and even wrote, "Most ENTps tend to not marry until their 30s, if at all" in his description of ILEs. I don't know where he learned that kind of thing, but I'd bet this isn't common for most ILEs. I have known ILEs who aren't really "socially defunct".

    ... and I'm not trying to attack you, but sometimes criticism is a good thing.[/url]
    Rocky, I was talking about my own type, and I am not the only one who says that ENTps are generally socially defunct, because in most case senerios they are. I know another ENTp who did not marry until his thirties and everyone was wondering if he would ever get married because he had such a hard time socializing with people. Same thing with this ENTp professor I had over at university. Did not marry until later on and had a hard time relating to people. It is not an uncommon thing for ENTps to have a hard time with relationships, and I do have a very hard time with them. I do not think that is just me, either. It is hard trying to socialize with a PoLR ... it does not take a genius to figure that out.

    And ISTjs I do not like because they tend to turn into bullies after a while and are always trying to outwit me somehow. I just stay away from them, they are trouble for me.

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    I'm just going to have to disagree with all LSI types being bullies. There ARE good ones, too, and it's "type discrimination" that makes me cringe. I wouldn't even blame all problems on intertype-relationships, because those usually only come into play with close relationships. To dislike everyone of a certain type is just sad to me.

    The natural order that most people seem to go through...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Only my own type is good

    Only the _s are good (for some people it is the NTs or the IPs or whatever other foolish category).

    The person begins to value all types.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    It is hard trying to socialize with a PoLR ... it does not take a genius to figure that out.
    Wow... just realized that ESTp has the same PoLR . This explains a lot about the 3 ESTp's I've known IRL.

    Learning something new everyday here.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
    16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship

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    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    Wow... just realized that ESTp has the same PoLR Introverted Feeling. This explains a lot about the 3 ESTp's I've known IRL. Shocked

    Learning something new everyday here. Smile
    What do you mean, Steve?
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by StevINP
    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    It is hard trying to socialize with a PoLR ... it does not take a genius to figure that out.
    Wow... just realized that ESTp has the same PoLR . This explains a lot about the 3 ESTp's I've known IRL.

    Learning something new everyday here.
    Yes, but there is still a light diffrence between their 5th functions in the superid block...

    ENTp: 5th - a secret wish to be cared about
    ESTp: 5th - a secret wish to feel signifigant

    ESTps both have the same 4th and 6th , but their motivation for the manifestation of them is slightly diffrent.

    ESTps want to be loved by people and to feel that they are signifigant to them in some way.

    ENTps want to be loved by people and to feel that they are being cared for and cared about.

    You can find an ESTp example of this if you go to the ESTp uncovered article at www.socionics.com and read the short dialogue between the female ESTp and the guy. You will see that she wants to not only feel loved, but to feel signifigant. The guy does not realize this and continues to try to make her feel loved when she really wants is to feel signifigant. He probably is not an INFp, because that sort of dialogue would never happen between a dual INFp/ESTp relationship..

    Found here ...
    http://www.socionics.com/prof/estp2.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    I'm just going to have to disagree with all LSI types being bullies. There ARE good ones, too, and it's "type discrimination" that makes me cringe. I wouldn't even blame all problems on intertype-relationships, because those usually only come into play with close relationships. To dislike everyone of a certain type is just sad to me.

    The natural order that most people seem to go through...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Only my own type is good

    Only the _s are good (for some people it is the NTs or the IPs or whatever other foolish category).

    The person begins to value all types.
    Well, that is why I had the diffrent types write their own descriptions. If I was to write them, then I would always be including some type bias. To have people write about their own type, it would cut all of that out and there would be very little documentation of biased outside observation.

    If an ISTj would like to write and ISTj profile I would be more than happy to put one up. Until that time, my own ISTj description is going to sit there because apparently ISTjs do not care enough about personality profiling to bother writting about themselves in that way. And apparently they do not seem to care what I say about them, either. And from my viewpoing everything I wrote about them is true because I have seen it with my own eyes. So, I am not going to say I am wrong in what I have said about them.

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    If I wrote a description about ISTJs (LSIs), would you post it on your site?
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    If I wrote a description about ISTJs (LSIs), would you post it on your site?
    Yes, but I know it would still have some bias. I would perfer to have an actual ISTj write about him or herself, but it would probably be a little less negitive atleast if a neighbouring type like ISTp were to write a description.

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzblut
    Wow... just realized that ESTp has the same PoLR Introverted Feeling. This explains a lot about the 3 ESTp's I've known IRL. Shocked

    Learning something new everyday here. Smile
    What do you mean, Steve?
    Well I'm still a socionics n00b and just learning. I'm ditching MBTI in favor of this, this is way better. It was just that Reuben's very vivid description of what he thought was happening between his HA and PoLR functions between himself and others fed directly into my and really allowed me to see how this stuff can work a lot better rather than generic descriptions. And I could see how somebody with a weak PoLR would have trouble relating to people, or in relationships. So I looked at the chart here to see who else might have a PoLR and sure enough it was ESTp's.

    I'm >95% certain my sister is an ESTp, and if so she'd also have PoLR Fi. Guess what? My sister is 32 and not married, which correlates directly with Reuben's point about ENTp's with PoLR Fi not marrying until later and maybe having difficulty with relationships. I'm 28 and have been with my wife since we were both 18, and we just got married last year. It was very awkward at the wedding with everybody asking about my older sis and if she was seeing anybody, and people wondering when she would ever get married. I didn't know what to say, but Reuben's point has helped me to understand her a lot better now.

    Another ESTp I've known IRL was a former co-worker. He was just about on his 2nd ex-wife (not sure if he's still married or not). Loved the guy, very entertaining, always had some new project or adventure story to tell about. Helped pass the boring day away. But anyways, some of the stuff he'd talk about are the jokes and things he'd say to his wife, which were horribly insensitive. He just couldn't understand for the life of him why she would get so upset at some of the things he'd say. He'd tell her that she needed to get counseling or go see a shrink too, which would only aggravate the situation. It made me cringe, because if I said stuff like that to my wife I wouldn't have a wife for much longer. And he was darn near getting divorced for the 2nd time. My relationship with him (if I'm ENTj) would have been a Benefit relationship with me being the Benefactor and him the Beneficiary. I could totally see that, and I really wanted to try to help the guy out because I liked him and felt bad for him and could clearly see where he was going wrong. But he was darn near twice my age, had kids, and at the time I wasn't even married yet. Who am I to be giving him advice? I thought I would have just come across as arrogant or a snotty know-it-all and didn't really bother. I tried to drop some subtle hints "omg my wife would slap me straight across the face if I said that to her, you're nuts!" but that's about it.

    The 3rd RL ESTp is somebody that works in the same section as me (different company now), but I've never worked with him or even talked to him directly. But I do know one of his ex-gf's, who also works in the same section, and have talked to her a good bit about the situation. She's an INFj which would have made their relationship a Confllict (yikes) and he really really really hurt the poor girl. This was recent so I don't want to give any details, but I'll just say it's the same general pattern with lack of Fi tending to hurt people or make relationships very difficult. The Dual for an ESTp would be INFp which is a very rare type unfortunately, so that only makes things harder. In that respect an ENTp would be better off, since an ISFp dual is much more common.

    So the post(s) helped me to understand ESTp's better which I really have trouble relating to, but it also helped me understand myself better because I can see exactly how I processed the information. If I'm an ENTj (TeNi), I "think" McNew's posts fed directly into my , and then I was able to put it together and come to an understanding through my creative function "relationships between processes". This all happened in an instant. Very neat how I can see this working.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
    16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship

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    @rmcnew: You think all ISTjs are bullies to you, because of the ole' Relation of Supervision. They feel watched and undervalued, so they constantly try to one-up you.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    @rmcnew: You think all ISTjs are bullies to you, because of the ole' Relation of Supervision. They feel watched and undervalued, so they constantly try to one-up you.
    I know ... they were my inspiration for writting the supervision relationship description over at socion.info ...

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