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Thread: ENTj Appreciation Thread

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    Default ENTj Appreciation Thread

    Thought I might voice my appreciation for ENTjs in general. :wink:

    I just want to say that I have enjoyed reading and learned alot from the ENTjs in the forum so far. The ones I have known IRL are rather interesting people to be with and definitely indispensable in everyone's life. They are intelligent, knowledgeable, optimistic, have great taste in movies and music, live life to the fullest, and have the ability to appreciate ideas and theoretical subjects. Even though they comment about things you don't want to hear, they are right nearly all the time. I wish they could be my dual instead.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Maybe they are. Perhaps you are ISFj and not INFj.

    But ESTjs are also important - they're a good dual. They are consistent in their ways, and are extremely good implementers of already established laws, principles, values and methods etc.

    Am I right in thinking that ENTjs are one of the rarest - if not the rarest - types in socionics theory?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Am I right in thinking that ENTjs are one of the rarest - if not the rarest - types in socionics theory?
    Why would that be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Am I right in thinking that ENTjs are one of the rarest - if not the rarest - types in socionics theory?
    Why would that be?
    I was enquiring into the seemingly contradictory nature of the NT a while ago, namely the idea that intuition (based on vision, gut feelings and imagination) appears to conflict with thought (based on logic and systematic ways of thinking).

    Then someone came up with the explanation that NTs are the rarest of types because of this strange nature of theirs. I'm sure he said something about the rarity of ENTjs, but I could be incorrect.

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    ENTjs are fantastic if you can catch them in a geeky mood.
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    Default Re: ENTj appreciation thread

    How many ENTjs do we have here? Maybe 3?

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    have great taste in movies and music
    Yes they do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Am I right in thinking that ENTjs are one of the rarest - if not the rarest - types in socionics theory?
    Why would that be?
    I don't think so. I think INxp is rare in America. not rare. There cannot be a rare type, that's impossible. But fewer than other types.
    asd

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I'm thinking in general though, on a global scale. I think the person who expressed that ENTj was the rarest type also was thinking in that way too.

    There's a website:

    http://www.typelab.ru/en/articles/lytovs-intro3.html

    If you scroll down, there's a theory called "Macrotypes (Ethnic Unities)".

    The US, is LIE as a continent, which would explain why you think what you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    The US, is LIE as a continent, which would explain why you think what you do.
    That is true. Unfortunately we have been an LIE who tries to avoid its porl for a long, long time. Any type that does that, especially if it is porl, will surely see decay - death - sooner than later. How much more so for a nation?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I love ENTjs. Definitely my favourite type before ESFps. I don't really know what it is about them though, although it's probably the mirror relations that makes me feel this way.
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    ENTjs are usually interesting people at least. Out of 3 ENTjs I know, I got along with 1 very well (my professor), 1 above average (hall council president), and 1 mediocre (friend of a friend).

    people are good for asking questions and finding leads. Te streams are important for my Ti refinery... like a natural resource. An LII without Te streams is in serious trouble, especially on Se terms.
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    ENTjs are nice people. I've known a few, and know of a few different varieties.

    1. Overbearing sort- This is the guy who loves things. His computer, his DVD player, his television. He will tell you all about his things then tell you what is wrong with your things. Most people think he's annoying. Probably has an uncommon interest. Loves entertainment, movies, and loves promoting his interests in general. The guy i know of this variety loves world history, and studies history in college. He's very informative and has a lot of interesting facts to share if you can stomach his presentation of them(it reminds me of how a 8 year old science nerd tells someone they are wrong, know what i mean?). He's very awkward in social situations and tends to use a fake aggression to help cope with other people's sentimentality. One of those people who's disconnected from the realities of social interaction so much so that you forgive him and like him for it(but he's much better than some alphas with this problem).

    2. Expat style - Intelligent, and more interested in quiet study. I've always imagined interacting with expat in person as a calm experience. He seems clever and like he would be interested in sharing what he knows. Always well informed in world issues and politics. The most real-world ENTj. You find a lot of these versions in government economics and politics.

    3. The adverturist - This person is lots of fun and spends most of their free time doing something bold and daring. Generally has lots of friends and keeps some close especially if they are fun.
    asd

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    Not ALL ENTj's have good music taste...lmao...I mean...assuming Joy is ENTj...lol....

    I love her don't get me wrong but she has some questionable tastes, we only share a few.

    That's the only ENTj I know IRL...again...assuming she is...which doesn't need to be discussed anymore
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    I've yet to meet an ENTj with good tastes in anything outside of movies.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Maybe they are. Perhaps you are ISFj and not INFj.

    But ESTjs are also important - they're a good dual. They are consistent in their ways, and are extremely good implementers of already established laws, principles, values and methods etc.

    Am I right in thinking that ENTjs are one of the rarest - if not the rarest - types in socionics theory?
    I'm not surprised that you pointed out ISFj as my type 'cos a few forum members from Gamma have suggested it as well. However, I will not change my current official type anymore, or else everyone here will be throwing darts at me for confusing them.

    I have encountered only a few ENTjs so far. I have always thought that ENTjs seem to have a natural spark in them. I usually feel strangely drawn to them even before I actually spoke to them, and in my mind I would be like, "I must get to know them!" As for ESTjs, they usually approach me to be friends, but our friendships don't last. I feel that they are too preoccupied with superficial and contrite topics such as holidays, great places to eat, cheap buys, musical instruments, gyms, muscles, enjoying the moment etc. Sometimes I wish they could discuss more about philosophical topics, spirituality, goals, dreams, long term plans, world issues, languages, film analysis etc.

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    Eunice, you are very far from an INFp... I do believe you to be an ISFj also. I saw it from the moment I viewed that first video you posted - the rationality.. the sensory way of speaking!


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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Maybe they are. Perhaps you are ISFj and not INFj.

    But ESTjs are also important - they're a good dual. They are consistent in their ways, and are extremely good implementers of already established laws, principles, values and methods etc.

    Am I right in thinking that ENTjs are one of the rarest - if not the rarest - types in socionics theory?
    I'm not surprised that you pointed out ISFj as my type 'cos a few forum members from Gamma have suggested it as well. However, I will not change my current official type anymore, or else everyone here will be throwing darts at me for confusing them.

    I have encountered only a few ENTjs so far. I have always thought that ENTjs seem to have a natural spark in them. I usually feel strangely drawn to them even before I actually spoke to them, and in my mind I would be like, "I must get to know them!" As for ESTjs, they usually approach me to be friends, but our friendships don't last. I feel that they are too preoccupied with superficial and contrite topics such as holidays, great places to eat, cheap buys, musical instruments, gyms, muscles, enjoying the moment etc. Sometimes I wish they could discuss more about philosophical topics, spirituality, goals, dreams, long term plans, world issues, languages, film analysis etc.
    That's because ENTjs are your dual!
    INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    ENTjs are nice people. I've known a few, and know of a few different varieties.

    1. Overbearing sort- This is the guy who loves things. His computer, his DVD player, his television. He will tell you all about his things then tell you what is wrong with your things. Most people think he's annoying. Probably has an uncommon interest. Loves entertainment, movies, and loves promoting his interests in general. The guy i know of this variety loves world history, and studies history in college. He's very informative and has a lot of interesting facts to share if you can stomach his presentation of them(it reminds me of how a 8 year old science nerd tells someone they are wrong, know what i mean?). He's very awkward in social situations and tends to use a fake aggression to help cope with other people's sentimentality. One of those people who's disconnected from the realities of social interaction so much so that you forgive him and like him for it(but he's much better than some alphas with this problem).

    2. Expat style - Intelligent, and more interested in quiet study. I've always imagined interacting with expat in person as a calm experience. He seems clever and like he would be interested in sharing what he knows. Always well informed in world issues and politics. The most real-world ENTj. You find a lot of these versions in government economics and politics.

    3. The adverturist - This person is lots of fun and spends most of their free time doing something bold and daring. Generally has lots of friends and keeps some close especially if they are fun.
    1 - 6w5?

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    Yes, I've known some very nice ENTJs. When they talk about a subject I like, they're fascinating. I appreciate their logic and the fact that they don't care or notice if others disagree with them and just keep talking. I wish I had that skill! I also like how they are clear cut about things and that can make decisions os easily (and things appear black and white). Sometimes that's good as I will not make up my mind for months, years, whatever (and will change my mind constantly as well)...and they'll be like "you should just do X now" (which I gotta admit sometimes bugs me, but other times it's OK if I really haven't a clue and just need a decision). But yeah, I like the ENTJs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    2-8w9/1w9
    Yeah, Expat reminds me of Boss in his non-openly enthusiastic, rational, laid-back style. Shame Boss doesn't post any more. He was a safe guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    ENTjs are nice people. I've known a few, and know of a few different varieties.

    1. Overbearing sort- This is the guy who loves things. His computer, his DVD player, his television. He will tell you all about his things then tell you what is wrong with your things. Most people think he's annoying. Probably has an uncommon interest. Loves entertainment, movies, and loves promoting his interests in general. The guy i know of this variety loves world history, and studies history in college. He's very informative and has a lot of interesting facts to share if you can stomach his presentation of them(it reminds me of how a 8 year old science nerd tells someone they are wrong, know what i mean?). He's very awkward in social situations and tends to use a fake aggression to help cope with other people's sentimentality. One of those people who's disconnected from the realities of social interaction so much so that you forgive him and like him for it(but he's much better than some alphas with this problem).

    2. Expat style - Intelligent, and more interested in quiet study. I've always imagined interacting with expat in person as a calm experience. He seems clever and like he would be interested in sharing what he knows. Always well informed in world issues and politics. The most real-world ENTj. You find a lot of these versions in government economics and politics.

    3. The adverturist - This person is lots of fun and spends most of their free time doing something bold and daring. Generally has lots of friends and keeps some close especially if they are fun.
    I disagree. I think that they are all different types. Either 1, 2 or 3 is an ENTj. Their styles are far too different to be the same type.

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    Socionics isn't based on "style". It's based on how you metabolize information. Different people could metabolize information the same way and have different "styles". A variety of things go into "style" - which I assume means outward traits? This is why MBTI and Socionics aren't very comparable. Socionics is about motivations, drives, that kind of thing. People who are can make different choices, be responding to different environments, have different levels of intelligence, be different ages, have relationships that make them more or less secure, etc. All of those things influence behavior, so they could all behave differently but all be ENTj. MBTI really just asks people to describe their behavior. In order to type, we have to look at *why* people do things, which functions they are using - not just what they are doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    2-8w9/1w9
    Yeah, Expat reminds me of Boss in his non-openly enthusiastic, rational, laid-back style. Shame Boss doesn't post any more. He was a safe guy.
    Expat is actually a lot more animated and enthusiastic in real life than he appears to be here. A lot of gesturing and a very lively conversationalist, especially when he uses Te or discusses Fi matters. Just thought I'd throw that in here because it is really striking how people are different in real life than they come across here.

    And he is, without a trace of doubt, an ENTj.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    2-8w9/1w9
    Yeah, Expat reminds me of Boss in his non-openly enthusiastic, rational, laid-back style. Shame Boss doesn't post any more. He was a safe guy.
    Expat is actually a lot more animated and enthusiastic in real life than he appears to be here. A lot of gesturing and a very lively conversationalist, especially when he uses Te or discusses Fi matters. Just thought I'd throw that in here because it is really striking how people are different in real life than they come across here.

    And he is, without a trace of doubt, an ENTj.
    I don't doubt that.

    That's why I find it hard to rely on methods like description to type people or trust people to type me correctly on this forum.

    Let me say this; I have three ways of being that I am aware of at the moment. They are not "masks". They are simply four ways of being.

    Firstly is when I am with my family or alone. I am very concentrative on what I do, am very thoughtful, and hate being interrupted when I'm working on something or am in task mode. I hate demands being placed on me. I am very quiet, and am relatively withdrawn. I am more INTj than any type at this time. When I post on here, this is the way I am currently. This is like my automatic state of being. I am also like this with my 6w7 friend, who I believe to be an ESFp. Also I act like this at parties, especially at those at which I know everyone (because I find their company extremely irritating and boring). I'm more logical and clear-headed during these times more than any other time. I love my own company. I am like an 8w9.

    Secondly is when I am with one of my best friends, Liam, a 5w6 INTj. I am very enthusiastic and can often appear gushing. I love talking and expressing my ideas, and sharing thoughts with him. I like to discuss issues and problems, and how I/he/we can overcome them. I have only fought and argued seriously with him on one occasion. Sometimes I can be very dominating in conversation, but he usually doesn't mind. This is when I most relate to ENTp. I change from solo to sociable, and the change is very recognisable. I become a lot less clear thinking, and often am very pacey, like a 7w6.

    Thirdly is when I am with my other best friend, Leon, a 7w6 ENFp. I become loud, dominating and often controlling. I am also somewhat offensive, and go out of my way to annoy him. Sometimes it's because I want to provoke a reaction, but it's mostly because I'm bored and high on energy. I am very mistrusting and challenging of what he says. I can laugh over-enthusiastically at what he talks about, because I'm always very restless and energetic when I'm around him. Even when I am with Liam as well, as long as I am with Leon, I act in this way. I consider it to be nearest to the description of ESTp. I very much take the appearance of an 8w7.

    If you read that, you will understand why I find it so hard to type me, and why others on this forum have found me to be incompetent, difficult, and often attached to a certain image which, they believe, is probably not me. It's because I have three states, which are very, very different ways of being, and all of which are most certainly natural.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Socionics isn't based on "style". It's based on how you metabolize information. Different people could metabolize information the same way and have different "styles". A variety of things go into "style" - which I assume means outward traits? This is why MBTI and Socionics aren't very comparable. Socionics is about motivations, drives, that kind of thing. People who are can make different choices, be responding to different environments, have different levels of intelligence, be different ages, have relationships that make them more or less secure, etc. All of those things influence behavior, so they could all behave differently but all be ENTj. MBTI really just asks people to describe their behavior. In order to type, we have to look at *why* people do things, which functions they are using - not just what they are doing.
    Like the Enneagram does. Okay, I can flow with that idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Socionics isn't based on "style". It's based on how you metabolize information. Different people could metabolize information the same way and have different "styles". A variety of things go into "style" - which I assume means outward traits? This is why MBTI and Socionics aren't very comparable. Socionics is about motivations, drives, that kind of thing. People who are can make different choices, be responding to different environments, have different levels of intelligence, be different ages, have relationships that make them more or less secure, etc. All of those things influence behavior, so they could all behave differently but all be ENTj. MBTI really just asks people to describe their behavior. In order to type, we have to look at *why* people do things, which functions they are using - not just what they are doing.
    True, but typing ultimately comes down to behavioral patterns, and the more experienced you are at typing, the less you have to break it down like that (though, kind of paradoxically, explaining behavior functionally becomes easier at the same time). Really, meeting someone IRL - even if for a few minutes (or moments) - gives more than enough information to determine their type beyond a reasonable doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Socionics isn't based on "style". It's based on how you metabolize information. Different people could metabolize information the same way and have different "styles". A variety of things go into "style" - which I assume means outward traits? This is why MBTI and Socionics aren't very comparable. Socionics is about motivations, drives, that kind of thing. People who are can make different choices, be responding to different environments, have different levels of intelligence, be different ages, have relationships that make them more or less secure, etc. All of those things influence behavior, so they could all behave differently but all be ENTj. MBTI really just asks people to describe their behavior. In order to type, we have to look at *why* people do things, which functions they are using - not just what they are doing.
    True, but typing ultimately comes down to behavioral patterns, and the more experienced you are at typing, the less you have to break it down like that (though, kind of paradoxically, explaining behavior functionally becomes easier at the same time). Really, meeting someone IRL - even if for a few minutes (or moments) - gives more than enough information to determine their type beyond a reasonable doubt.
    I agree, there is plenty of information for an experienced and knowledgeable typist to make judgments from just a short normal conversation. Behavior is an integral part of Socionics; people develop relationships that eventually fit in line with Socionic's relationship theory eventually without becoming consciously aware at how another person's values and goals run against their own. However, I really do wonder if experienced typists are really developing their own behavior theory that doesn't necessarily rely on functional analysis, or if typists are just making advanced application of the Socionics model of the psyche and it's related functions and just don't need to consciously break their analysis down to the same extent that a person not so experienced would. All the type descriptions that try to analyze a type's behavior independently of functional placement in the psyche, temperament, quadra values, or functional values don't really seem to apply so well. Although, I might just be mistaken in my analysis of the various behavioral descriptions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quirk Satellite Div.
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Socionics isn't based on "style". It's based on how you metabolize information. Different people could metabolize information the same way and have different "styles". A variety of things go into "style" - which I assume means outward traits? This is why MBTI and Socionics aren't very comparable. Socionics is about motivations, drives, that kind of thing. People who are can make different choices, be responding to different environments, have different levels of intelligence, be different ages, have relationships that make them more or less secure, etc. All of those things influence behavior, so they could all behave differently but all be ENTj. MBTI really just asks people to describe their behavior. In order to type, we have to look at *why* people do things, which functions they are using - not just what they are doing.
    True, but typing ultimately comes down to behavioral patterns, and the more experienced you are at typing, the less you have to break it down like that (though, kind of paradoxically, explaining behavior functionally becomes easier at the same time). Really, meeting someone IRL - even if for a few minutes (or moments) - gives more than enough information to determine their type beyond a reasonable doubt.
    I agree, there is plenty of information for an experienced and knowledgeable typist to make judgments from just a short normal conversation. Behavior is an integral part of Socionics; people develop relationships that eventually fit in line with Socionic's relationship theory eventually without becoming consciously aware at how another person's values and goals run against their own. However, I really do wonder if experienced typists are really developing their own behavior theory that doesn't necessarily rely on functional analysis, or if typists are just making advanced application of the Socionics model of the psyche and it's related functions and just don't need to consciously break their analysis down to the same extent that a person not so experienced would. All the type descriptions that try to analyze a type's behavior independently of functional placement in the psyche, temperament, quadra values, or functional values don't really seem to apply so well. Although, I might just be mistaken in my analysis of the various behavioral descriptions.
    I personally have not used full-length descriptions at all since I started learning socionics. I would just look for the most obvious qualities a person has, relate them to socionic elements, and then check the relationships. As long as the first step is reasonably accurate, the third step ensures the correctness of the second. The thing people are getting at when they say type != behavior is the tendency to see the obvious at the wrong level (like ExFps' pseudo-Fe, for instance); but this doesn't imply that type is "hidden" in any way.

  31. #31
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    2-8w9/1w9
    Yeah, Expat reminds me of Boss in his non-openly enthusiastic, rational, laid-back style. Shame Boss doesn't post any more. He was a safe guy.
    Expat is actually a lot more animated and enthusiastic in real life than he appears to be here. A lot of gesturing and a very lively conversationalist, especially when he uses Te or discusses Fi matters. Just thought I'd throw that in here because it is really striking how people are different in real life than they come across here.

    And he is, without a trace of doubt, an ENTj.
    I don't doubt that.

    That's why I find it hard to rely on methods like description to type people or trust people to type me correctly on this forum.

    Let me say this; I have three ways of being that I am aware of at the moment. They are not "masks". They are simply four ways of being.

    Firstly is when I am with my family or alone. I am very concentrative on what I do, am very thoughtful, and hate being interrupted when I'm working on something or am in task mode. I hate demands being placed on me. I am very quiet, and am relatively withdrawn. I am more INTj than any type at this time. When I post on here, this is the way I am currently. This is like my automatic state of being. I am also like this with my 6w7 friend, who I believe to be an ESFp. Also I act like this at parties, especially at those at which I know everyone (because I find their company extremely irritating and boring). I'm more logical and clear-headed during these times more than any other time. I love my own company. I am like an 8w9.

    Secondly is when I am with one of my best friends, Liam, a 5w6 INTj. I am very enthusiastic and can often appear gushing. I love talking and expressing my ideas, and sharing thoughts with him. I like to discuss issues and problems, and how I/he/we can overcome them. I have only fought and argued seriously with him on one occasion. Sometimes I can be very dominating in conversation, but he usually doesn't mind. This is when I most relate to ENTp. I change from solo to sociable, and the change is very recognisable. I become a lot less clear thinking, and often am very pacey, like a 7w6.

    Thirdly is when I am with my other best friend, Leon, a 7w6 ENFp. I become loud, dominating and often controlling. I am also somewhat offensive, and go out of my way to annoy him. Sometimes it's because I want to provoke a reaction, but it's mostly because I'm bored and high on energy. I am very mistrusting and challenging of what he says. I can laugh over-enthusiastically at what he talks about, because I'm always very restless and energetic when I'm around him. Even when I am with Liam as well, as long as I am with Leon, I act in this way. I consider it to be nearest to the description of ESTp. I very much take the appearance of an 8w7.

    If you read that, you will understand why I find it so hard to type me, and why others on this forum have found me to be incompetent, difficult, and often attached to a certain image which, they believe, is probably not me. It's because I have three states, which are very, very different ways of being, and all of which are most certainly natural.
    This sounds socionics-ENFjish (honestly)
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    This sounds socionics-ENFjish (honestly)
    Yes, but I don't think it, in itself, necessarily rules out ESTp or ENTp.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    i know several ENTj people, and one of 3 best friends of mine is ENTj
    They are great people, different from me, some things that wrong to me are right to them and opposite, but i really like this type.... some tell that ENFj (my type) are enigmatic..... well i can admit - those ones are enigmatic for me
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    1.: ability to win with sword in your hand.
    2.: ability to win without sword in your hand, but in your soul.
    3, and the hightest one: without having sword nor in hand not in soul be able to win and bring peace to people.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    This sounds socionics-ENFjish (honestly)
    It's a possibility. I've read through some descriptions of ENFj, and I've had a look at my identified two friends - ENFp and INTj - and it somewhat correlates to the description.

    ENTp correlates more so, I believe (both description-wise and relationship-wise).

    ESTp correlates very little to two said relationships. The descriptions fit me better than ENFj.

    I've been using this site: http://socionics.org/ to look at some of the descriptions for each type.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. The other night, with Josh and my family, I exploded, because my brother said I did something I believed I didn't do. Far from showing sibling squabbling, I think it provides insight into the way I argue. I pretty much threw a barrage of "BULLSHIT! YOU WEREN'T THERE! YOU WEREN'T FUCKING THERE! YOU DIDN'T SEE IT!!!" at him. It takes A LOT of willpower for me to reason in a calm and reasonable manner if I believe I'm correct. At first, this suggests a lot of Fe, correct? Incorrect; I realised that Fe is to do with manipulating people's feelings, getting people as worked up as you are - this is not how I felt. I didn't want anyone to get as worked up as me. I wanted him to admit that I was correct. I was defending - no, sorry - imposing my point. Then it all went to shit when we were talking about different situations concerning the same event. I had no alternative but to lower my voice. In a word, I was beaten.

    Also, when people raise their voice, I take my own down. The calmer they are, the more stressed I am, because at this point I know I am losing the battle, and can only appeal to my strength and power. The more stressed they are, the calmer I am. I appeal to reason and rationality when others around me are "losing their heads", yet if people are calmer, I lose my head and am infuriated by their conduct. Strange, isn't it? Look at this pitiful translation of a revealing sentence I found on socionics.org: "The more around emotions and panic, however, more and more confidently." It's describing an ENTp.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    No, I'm sorry, there's no way I'm ENFj. It just isn't me.

    Put it this way. The vibe of the ENFj is instantly recognisable, agreed? I'd say I have a rough understanding of the way EIEs like Michael Jackson and Bono work psychologically: "we must help these people! Together, we can make the world a utopia!" etc. etc. Although twice in the past I've said I want to impact upon the world, this has only ever occurred twice. It was wishful thinking. "I want to be lawyer and sort these corrupt dictators in Africa out, and I want to revolutionise it!" was the first. The second was "why can't someone just go over and revolutionise the sweatshop industry and murder these corporate American fat cats!?" Fe was evident here. However, on both occasions this was a romantic ideal, akin to Che Guevara's initial feelings about Latin America (although he became much more like an ENTj over time, imho, after reading his biography).

    EIEs are very attuned to people's feelings and are able to mould their own according to their situation. This does not accurately describe me. In fact, as described in my second-to-last post, I don't serve to harmonise my relationships with people, I openly conflict with them at many times. EIEs don't criticise in public; they are afraid of criticism themselves. I, by comparison, relish constructive criticism, seeing it as a way to build myself up. I also like to criticise others, not for the sake of criticising them, but so as to reform them, like an Enneagram 1. I love to argue, often for the sake of argument, because it's good to express views and share them. Harmony, I think, is unrealistic, and is not the way life is naturally. We must accommodate this fact.

    And, lastly, you tell me if I'm persuasive. Perhaps I am. Perhaps I've persuaded you that I'm not an ENFj. On the other hand, ironically, you could still think I am an ENFj.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Sorry for the triple post.

    ESTp really does sound a lot like me. I'd like to say ENTp is more, because it fits with the intertype relationships between my two talked-about friends, whereas ESTp doesn't at all. But ENTps aren't aggressive like I am.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Don't be so pompous and long winded, it's not necessary. I'm just saying that paragraph sounds ENFj. It's a single instance. Not an overall judgement on your type.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Lol, Ezra, I'm sorry but uhh... you're ENFj... jeez... reading these posts, I'm sure of it. A very abrasive, filled one. But it's so unreal. You're sx first, aren't you? Just one of those overly dramatic types.


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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Don't be so pompous and long winded, it's not necessary. I'm just saying that paragraph sounds ENFj. It's a single instance. Not an overall judgement on your type.
    I'm not being long-winded or pompous.

    Behavioural patterns relate heavily to type. If I describe my behaviour, and you make statement concerning said behaviour, whether you are intending to or not, you are inferring my type.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Lol, Ezra, I'm sorry but uhh... you're ENFj... jeez... reading these posts, I'm sure of it.
    Okay.

    A very abrasive, filled one.
    You mean an ESTp.

    But it's so unreal.
    In what way?

    You're sx first, aren't you?
    No, I'm self-preservationist.

    Just one of those overly dramatic types.
    Again, in what way?

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