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Thread: Theory on socionics E/I J/P

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    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
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    Default Theory on socionics E/I J/P

    Here is my theory:

    In every block of a socionics personality in model A, a person has an introverted and an extroverted, and one of those functions is perceiving and the other judging. I have came to a conclusion about these functions and how they work.

    In this example, I will use an INTj and an INTp to demonstrate how functions work. In an INTj's ego block it has . Introverted thinking is a judging function, and extroverted intuition is a perceiving function. Do to the J being at the end of a an INTj's name, they are accepted as being a judging type. An INTp ego block is comprised of . Introverted intuition is a perceiving function and extroverted thinking is a judging function. An INTp is excepted as a perceiving type due to the fact that it has an P at the end of its name. In reality an INTj is both a judging type and a perceiving type, as is an INTp. In my opinion, an introverted function an internal mental absorbing function, and an extroverted function is a function of expression. In the example of an INTj, Ti is the internal mental function(i can't think of a better way to describe it) and Ne is the function of expression. It is in my opinion that data flows in a block from one function to the other. Here is an example.

    INTj: Ti > Ne(Ti influenced) > outside world > Ne(world influenced) > Ti (Ne influenced which was influenced by world)

    This is how data travels for an INTj.

    Ne being a perceiving function, the world gets a very creative and right brained influence. INTjs are very messy in relation to the world. Mentally though, INTjs are extremely organized due to Ti being a judging function. Basically the Ti takes in the Ne perceiving material and organizes it.

    INTp: Ni > Te(Ni influenced) > outside world > Te( world influenced) > Ni (Te influenced which was influenced by world)

    Ni being a perceiving function the INTp is very disorganized mentally but creative. Due to Te being extroverted and judging, INTps are very neat and organized when it comes to the world.

    Technically the difference between Socionics and MBTI is that Socionics types according to the introverted function and MBTI types according to the extroverted function due to its expressiveness to the world.

    Im going to add on to this later, but this is what I have so far.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    A question: would this be valid for, say Te-Ni and Te-Si, for example?
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    Does it matter if I say that I'm not neat and organised? You should see my bedroom...
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    Default Re: Theory on socionics E/I J/P

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    Do to the J being at the end of a an INTj's name, they are accepted as being a judging type.
    That is putting the cart infront of the horse.

    A better way to think about it IMO is LII, in that, the first to functions of an "INTj" or "LII" is Logical and Intuitive, therefore, it must be rational. It is not about letters, it is about functional ordering.

    INTj: Ti > Ne(Ti influenced) > outside world > Ne(world influenced) > Ti (Ne influenced which was influenced by world)

    This is how data travels for an INTj.

    Ne being a perceiving function, the world gets a very creative and right brained influence. INTjs are very messy in relation to the world. Mentally though, INTjs are extremely organized due to Ti being a judging function. Basically the Ti takes in the Ne perceiving material and organizes it.
    I agree somewhat, but how would that be any different for an ENTp, according to you?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
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    For ENTp it would mean more Ti> Ne(Ti Influenced)> outside world

    For INTj it would mean more Outside world > Ne(world influenced) > Ti (Ne influenced which is influenced by world)

    It is also my theory that in relations of activity and duality that the interactions work a little different than what people think.... as do all relations and their functions involved.

    Duality is all about stimulating the creative function. Si is an outside world influence that causes the Ne > Ti chain in the ISFp INTj relation of activity. This will cause the INTj to have more introverted stimulation. For an ESFj and an INTj, Fe would stimulate Ti >Ne chain actually causing more extroverted interaction from an INTj. This makes perfect logical sense when you think that an extroverted person would cause an introverted person to produce more extroverted reactions.

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    Default Re: Theory on socionics E/I J/P

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    Ni being a perceiving function the INTp is very disorganized mentally but creative. Due to Te being extroverted and judging, INTps are very neat and organized when it comes to the world.
    This is not how it's seen in Socionics. Socionics, as I understand, does not take the position that people with extraverted judging functions in the ego are therefore neat and organized when it comes to the world. MBTI does take that position. According to Socionics, it is the accepting (1st) function that is most predictive of one's behavior in regard to major decisions, observable, actions, etc.

    However, you are very correct that all people demonstrate both rational and irrational sides. Similarly, all people have a mixture of being organized and disorganized (that's not exactly the same thing, but loosely related).

    Clearly, the idea that irrationals are a disorganized mushy mess who hate any order of any kind, or that rationals are all people who can never relax is simply wrong.

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    Judging types are goal oriented. They follow schedules and plan their actions. Perceiving types are more free floating. They don't have as strict schedules that they place upon themselves.

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    Duality is all about stimulating the creative function. Si is an outside world influence that causes the Ne > Ti chain in the ISFp INTj relation of activity. This will cause the INTj to have more introverted stimulation. For an ESFj and an INTj, Fe would stimulate Ti >Ne chain actually causing more extroverted interaction from an INTj. This makes perfect logical sense when you think that an extroverted person would cause an introverted person to produce more extroverted reactions.
    But shouldn't a rational (J) cause another rational to produce rational reactions?

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    I think he's talking about Fe from INTj.

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    Default Re: Theory on socionics E/I J/P

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta

    INTp: Ni > Te(Ni influenced) > outside world > Te( world influenced) > Ni (Te influenced which was influenced by world) sounds good

    Ni being a perceiving function the INTp is very disorganized mentally but creative. Due to Te being extroverted and judging, INTps are very neat and organized when it comes to the world. um, not so much
    I'm only somewhat mentally disorganized, and that's usually when I'm tired, which could be said for anyone. The whole Te/J thing yielding worldly organization and neatness is totally outlandish, from a conventional sense. As KSpin said, and as I think is typical of most INTps, our bedrooms are messy like fuck, totally lacking any sort of conventional "order". So, I think you've got it backwards, INTps are worldly disorganized, but creative, and very neat and organized mentally. Example: my room is messy as fuck, yet, I can tell you with 90% accuracy the probable location of anything within said "mess"; Ni keeps things internally neat, but is manifested as external disorder through Te.

    What I just wrote makes sense to me ( ), but it might not have been translated and transcribed ( ) accurately enough for others to "see the light" :wink:
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    I have a tidy bedroom =/. When I was younger though (I think it was about 18 I changed) I used to be really messy externally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    Judging types are goal oriented. They follow schedules and plan their actions. Perceiving types are more free floating. They don't have as strict schedules that they place upon themselves.
    Yes, but because each type has both qualities, perceiving types are also at times goal and schedule oriented, and vice versa.
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    The accepting function is what you decide your goals by and what controls your intentions... It's actually uncommon for Exxj's to clean anything up when there isn't a specific, stated reason to do it. (ESTj's being sort of an excepting given that they're always making themselves 'useful' to keep themselves from thinking)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    Judging types are goal oriented. They follow schedules and plan their actions. Perceiving types are more free floating. They don't have as strict schedules that they place upon themselves.
    Yes, but because each type has both qualities, perceiving types are also at times goal and schedule oriented, and vice versa.
    correct.... the judging functions are perceiving influenced and the perceiving functions are judging influenced

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