Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Functional Analysis of The Analyst (INTj)

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Functional Analysis of The Analyst (INTj)

    The following is a functional analysis of The Analyst that i've put together with descriptions and personal experience. It's a work in progress, any critique will be appreciated.

    1. Base (Intellectual) Function: Introverted Thinking (Ti)

    “High-bandwidth understanding”

    Introverted Thinking leads you to relate whatever you are doing to some larger principles that you have identified. Hence, Ti is like having some kind of book in your head, which describes the inner workings of things. When interacting with reality, you are constantly writing and re-writing your book. To deal with anything, you have to be able to understand in terms of the observations in your book. Whenever you are dealing with any new system, you start writing a new chapter on it in order to attain complete understanding of it. A system could be anything from seeking to understand “the dating game” to “office politics”.

    This approach may seem very cumbersome from an extraverted standpoint. You don't really need to understand how a bicycle works in order to ride one. You don't have to actually understand a subject in school if you simply cram and memorize. You don't have to understand computers to check your email. Yet Ti leads you to desire complete understanding of whatever you are doing, instead of looking up the correct procedure, or asking your friends for help, or kicking it when it's not working. With Ti, you don't simply try to understand a system well enough to manipulate it. You try to become such an expert on how it works that you could write a book about it if you had to, even if your expertise is unusable or useless to everybody (sometimes even to yourself). This functional analysis in itself is a great example of this.

    Hence, Ti is a kind of high-bandwidth understanding, because it leads you to try to understand the entire causal, aesthetic, or logical mechanism of any system of interest. This kind of understanding takes much more time and effort to develop, but it is more flexible once attained, because it allows you to deal with aspects of reality that cannot be described through social norms or sets of discrete procedures.

    2. Creative Function: Extroverted Intuition (Ne)

    "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." Einstein

    Extroverted Intuition helps produce the understandings of the Ti function where all your personal theories are tested out in the real world in a playful naďve way. For example, you walk into an electrical store and ask to check out they’re latest model video camera and the first thing you do is play with it in order to build a new updated understanding required by the Ti function. In this sense, you see how it is necessary to learn through active hands on self discovery. In essence, the style of learning follows the principles of Constructivism which focuses on actively constructing knowledge as opposed to a traditional education that expects passive absorption of knowledge. One flaw with this function is the arrogance produced that say you won’t read the instructions before setting up a piece of equipment magically thinking you know it already due to previous Ti knowledge and experimental Ne. In most cases this results in a quicker understanding of something that has to be learnt but should be balance with good old instructional learning.

    Let’s take ‘the dating game’ as another example of, in this case, figuring out a social ‘system’. The dominant Ti function dictates that the understanding of women and interaction of different female types must be studied in order to be understood. It would arguably be unhealthy to study something theoretically indefinitely without gathering evidence. This is where the Ne function comes in. This is perhaps the reason why an INTj usually socialises when there’s a purpose in it even if that purpose is mere observation to gather visual evidence that helps further their theoretical understanding. There couldn’t be anything more torturous then the constant nagging from extroverted friends to go out with them which for the INTj becomes a compromise they’ll make to further their research i.e. making the best of a situation even when they blatantly can’t tolerate it hence their surface conformism. If they want observation, they’ll go to a bar or club. If they want interaction, they’ll try speed-dating. It’s not in their nature to enjoy themselves like the subcultures expect.

    Hence, Ne as a creative function serves as a kind of prompt to the Ti that ‘the world is my oyster’ for research and learning. If not for the Ne, the INTj would probably never go out and thus fail to notice the trends and behaviours they so desperately need for their constant ever-growing understanding of the world around them.

    3. Role Function: Introverted Feeling (Fi)

    “A modest ethical man”

    Introverted Feeling is one half of the superego which acts as the first element of conscience behind the driving ego functions above. Inner feelings don't get out much but lend its influence on behalf of causes which are good, worthy and humane. We may catch a glimpse of it in the unspoken attitude of good will, or the gracious smile or nod.

    Hence, Fi as a role function defines the man behind the cold rational mask. Even behind a mind with relentless analysis and knowledge seeking, there is a modest person quietly waiting to express himself.

    4. Place of Least Resistance (Shyness): Extroverted Sensing (Se)

    “A shy spot for hedonism”

    Extroverted Sensing as the PoLR is the other half of the superego conscience that is afraid to come out or be provoked. As the producing function for the role function Fi, rest assured that when the special time comes, those inner feelings will be expressed through the senses. For example, a kiss or touch for a loved one will usually be a direct translation of their inner feelings to an outward physical expression that they feel liberated but exhausted for showing.

    When you are oriented in the Se way, you live completely in the moment. You respond now to what is happening now. What happens later, you'll deal with later. What's happened in the past is irrelevant.

    Like a habit, the analyst’s life is dominated by understanding theory and gathering evidence. He doesn’t know well how to balance work and play and can easily lead himself to starvation.

    Life for the analyst is ascetic where he has refrained from sensual pleasures usually by fear and out of their hidden agenda to be healthy. This may explain the analyst’s closely guarded fear of intimacy which is why they are more love driven looking for that very special lady who may take a lifetime to find unless they’ll willing to throw caution to the wind and accept the challenge of the dating game. The benefits of course could be that some day they may have such a high understanding of the dating process that they end up writing a best selling book on the subject or create a better system of dating based on their (limited) Se experiences.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

  2. #2
    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    DC area, US
    TIM
    Te-INTp (ILI)
    Posts
    807
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think those are pretty darn good real-world descriptions of and , ones that I can really relate to. I think the part about Ti being used to soak up as much information about something as possible such that you could write a book about it is really true. I can really relate to this. My brain used to be like a sponge and still is to a certain extent in that I try to learn as much about something as I possibly can. I think your Ne example is good too.

    Nowadays I don't necessarily try to understand "EVERYTHING" via Ti, but rather just seem to want to learn enough about something that I can use it to my advantage, and make decisions with it. I get to the point where I realize that things are much more complex and that there's a ton more to learn, but I know what I need to know, am happy, and then move on. If there ever comes a point where I feel the need to learn more, I always can.


    Steve
    (probably really an ENTj/ENxj)

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StevINP
    Nowadays I don't necessarily try to understand "EVERYTHING" via Ti, but rather just seem to want to learn enough about something that I can use it to my advantage, and make decisions with it.
    You haven't confirmed your type but that statement would lead me to conclude that you are an ENTj with your base function being Extroverted Thinking also known as "practical logic" as opposed to Introverted Thinking also known as "structural logic".

    In essence, if an INTj wants to know how something works, an ENTj would want to know how we can apply it to the real world, usually in a practical way to make money with your hidden agenda "to be wealthy".

    Or in the case of Star Wars, it would take an ENTj to oversee the creation of the Death Star with the evil genius of an ENTp to invent its devastating weapons systems and use the skill and technical prowess of the INTj to make the whole thing work.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

  4. #4
    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    DC area, US
    TIM
    Te-INTp (ILI)
    Posts
    807
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    rmcnew has me pretty well convinced that I'm either ENTj or ENxj. (link, very long thread)

    I do like to understand things for the sake of understanding them just because "they're there", but at the same time if you create some technologically advanced latest bells and whistles contraption that is the latest and greatest, yet doesn't perform or do things any better than the old tried and true system, then what good is it? I don't believe in technology for the sake of technology. Maybe I used to, but not anymore. I do look for practical applications for things not so much to make money, but rather because it just seems to make sense to me. What good is creating something if it has no use and can serve no purpose?

    So HA is to be wealthy? That just doesn't seem like me. Does it mean anything else? I'll have to ponder that for awhile...


    Steve

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @ Stev, I think you have pratical logc, too.

    http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...91d6aec7e6d58b

    @ snowyc: do you really think Einstein was an LII?
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    he was using einstein as the archetype of not of LIIs
    .. but Ne works diffrenly as a dominant function. So was Einstein possibale an EII? You know I still think he was NiTe, but I'm not going to argue that here.

    Also, Dmitri wrote that you can confuse the strong subconcious functions for the strong, concious ones (making it easy to confuse quasi-identical and contrast types) so keep that in mind.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ascetic is maybe too harsh a word! A life of frugality towards money and worldly pleasures is perhaps more accurate.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    .. but Ne works diffrenly as a dominant function.
    i don't think it does. i think you just have to learn to maximize it's use. the only difference (imo) is T > N or N > T.
    I tend to think of the first and second functions as more or less equal in terms of "strength". They process diffrent kinds of information, so why would you need to choose one over the other? The order just seems to cause the functions to act diffrently; they have diffrent qualities, not neccessarily quantities.

    BTW, Pedro:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    esfps are hot!
    I think you're a bit dillusional.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  9. #9
    MysticSonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,993
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The way Ne works in me is quite honestly exactly how one would expect it to in the "spontaneous realization" block; once I understand an I idea, I continually refine it, untill it hardly resembles the original concept at all.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Europe (somewhere)
    Posts
    101
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    So that's what I am? A health hazard???
    Do you smoke?
    Logical-Intuitive Extravert (ENTj)
    TeNi

  11. #11
    MysticSonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,993
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    "In my opinion ANY function can dominate the personality in terms of MAGNITUDE but not in terms of hierarchical order. Depressed intjs for example are usually (imo) 'Fi subtypes' of the intj."

    Most definately.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ich bin ein ubel glied
    Posts
    8,198
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    If anyone was ever INTp, it was Pook... :wink:
    You know about Pook?

    I use to post in the sosuave.net forum also for like 2 or 3 years, then I quit because I realized that the advice on the website was not only totally defunct, but fed into my hidden agenda way too much for it to be effective.

    Plus, that gunwitch guy keep posting his crappy ISTj pick-up strategies and totally pissed me off because I hate the way ISTjs do things. It sickened me that people bought into that crap.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    I tend to think of the first and second functions as more or less equal in terms of "strength". They process diffrent kinds of information, so why would you need to choose one over the other? The order just seems to cause the functions to act diffrently; they have diffrent qualities, not neccessarily quantities.
    i didn't mean for > and < to refer to MAGNITUDE but rather to hierarchical order. In my opinion ANY function can dominate the personality in terms of MAGNITUDE but not in terms of hierarchical order. Depressed intjs for example are usually (imo) 'Fi subtypes' of the intj. In my opinion there are no qualitative differences.
    OK, then in that case I agree with you. I also know about those Fi subtypes, too. Do people ever accentuate their PoLR the same way, though? Se subtypes?
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    or is it arrogant optimism disguised as pessimism in the view of 97% of the world who don't see things how I do?
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah it probably is, i just like to back up my opinions with real world examples that other INTj's would probably relate to.

    Notice i have to use a lot of "maybe", "perhaps" and "probably" to give a fair arguement that people can't outrightly say is wrong or right since i keep enforcing that it's just a theory/opinion.

    I consider myself a constructivist and as such i'm forcing people in my writing who normally wouldn't think to construct their own answer from the opinion/theory i give. Of course, an INTj probably thinks more then any "common" type would who i'm aiming this at.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah exactly, the age old idea that everyone has the right to their opinion. The only reason we have a democracy in my opinion is because a lot of people can't think for themselves who elect 'parties' to do the thinking for them kinda like choosing a publisher for your book unless you wanted to be totally 'independant'.

    However, if everyone actually voiced their opinions, we'd probably have a mass arguement and no resolve. I believe the nature of society is a product of the 16 types and arguably can only be argued by people who think 'outside the box'. From experience i don't think xSxJ types like to be told anything that implies their life is predictable which is how they percieve something like Socionics and Astrology although i've met others who swear by it due to their need for religious belief in knowing about their life.

    In conclusion, being an INTj is a blessing and a curse at the same time which could be said of any other type although i think it's more dependant on how 'common' your type is. I like knowing what i know and observing the trends that i have found reason for through science but i also feel annoyed somewhat that i'm too rational for my own good when it comes to irrational desires like dating and mating. In that sense, i could be known as 'the true latestarter' in those frivolous but necessary areas of life as my weak develops naturally over time, i'm not sure what i can do to nurture it.
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

  17. #17
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,827
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default INTj analysis by functions: Ti, Ne, Se PoLR



    Valuing , or at least having a preference for it, has lead to the exploration of possibilities. There are many of them, infinite.

    However, valuing, Ti over Ne (this could also be said as: being an Ti subtype of LII), I perhaps have reduced my emphasis on Ne, though I have not destroyed it. I believe I explored Ne much more in recent years, perhaps being a Ne subtype, perhaps not (whether or not you believe in them doesn't matter for sake of this thread, they are just preferences perhaps).

    So, Using , the possibilities are considered, the infinite amount. This furthers and forces to accept a neutrality of sorts. So where do you look for direction?
    Valuing Ne, and understanding and comprehending the infinite possibilities, yet finding neutrality (and accepting this, not being distraught or depressed necessarily),
    ...I turned to the other static state: .

    is also related to , and on both accounts a higher energy level (EP and EJ).
    ((This may be related to transition from Enneagram 5 to enneagram 1))


    However I say because, while it is the polr, it does provide something to be certain about, essentially, the present moment. It brings you down from all the possibilities and, in the same way Se 'comforts' Ni, (or reassures), it can provide clarity on what to focus on. It also opens up receptivity to , to the continuously flowing stream of information and facts, which is vital to the health of Static .

    Because Ne can comprehend well the extreme neutrality and temporal insignificance of things, it can lead to blankness. This can also lead into stagnation, as the static IJ state may simply decides, "oh well, that is all there is",.... which can be depressive. If there are infinite possibilities, how can you determine what is important? Or what to focus on?

    What is important is what will lead to sustenance ( Si HA?), what will promote growth and expansion and longevity, productivity, progress, moving forward.

    How do you actualize that, having mastery over , and valuing ? By accepting and seeking out , or perhaps more so, by accepting and seeking out static change, or the understanding of static change.

    Unintentionally, this reminds me of Zen or Buddhism.


    I posted it here to see if any of the other LIIs had anything to say about it, though I do not really expect much feedback. It is more an interpretational analysis, which is related to something I have been dealing with recently.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  18. #18
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It sounds more like unhealthy type insecurity.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  19. #19
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,945
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    ye old Subterranean forune cookie:

    ''To limit the possibilities seen through , you must detach yourself through medications, then the path will become clear''.

    I think is able to assess things for value and say 'this works', or 'this isn't possible'. Through a balance of yin and yang , you can make your more efficient at producing plausible possibilities.

    I'm going to stop before someone like Niffweed ridicules the overanalysing over things that don't actally mean anything .
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  20. #20
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,827
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    I'm going to stop before someone like Niffweed ridicules the overanalysing over things that don't actally mean anything .
    "It does not matter"
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  21. #21
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,827
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    It sounds more like unhealthy type insecurity.
    I can assure it is not that, at least.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  22. #22
    lefty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NY, NY
    Posts
    586
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    ye old Subterranean forune cookie:

    ''To limit the possibilities seen through , you must detach yourself through medications, then the path will become clear''.

    I think is able to assess things for value and say 'this works', or 'this isn't possible'. Through a balance of yin and yang , you can make your more efficient at producing plausible possibilities.

    I'm going to stop before someone like Niffweed ridicules the overanalysing over things that don't actally mean anything .
    @ threat of nifweed commenting

  23. #23
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,827
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You heard that whip crack all the way over in Gamma quadra, huh
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  24. #24
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Since this thread is the original context for the topic linked in the Articles section HERE, I thought that I would bump this age-old thread to be revisited.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    83
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I like to think of learning with as playing a game of tetris. As new information comes in, I need to figure out how it fits in with everything else. If I can't find an immediate fit for it before more information shows up, I get confused and start forgetting or ignoring things.
    INTj

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •