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Thread: Would a dual relation ever appear identical?

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    Default Would a dual relation ever appear identical?

    I am wondering if the dual seeking function is sometimes, in practice, mistaken for an ego block function, enough that when we recognize it in another person(dual), especially in the early stages of a relationship, we think, "Hey, that's me!" (when in reality it may be more like "That's what i need....").

    So, would a dual relation ever appear identical?
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    not likely. in many ways duals are polar opposites of one another. while duality can definitely be mistaken for certain other relations, identity and duality would probably be rather difficult to confuse.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd think Mirror and even Activity would be much closer to seeming like Identical.. Mirror obviously cause of the reversed functions.. but Activity cause usually people think they're stronger in their 6th function than 5th.. and like showing off with it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Yeah, I'd think Mirror and even Activity would be much closer to seeming like Identical.. Mirror obviously cause of the reversed functions.. but Activity cause usually people think they're stronger in their 6th function than 5th.. and like showing off with it.
    It seems like this must lead to some embarrassing situations between activity partners. Is it common for activity partners to overcompensate and drift apart?

    Also, tell me what it feels like for you to encounter your dual-seeking function in another person. Let's say you've been "displaying" your desire for quite some time, like a peacock fanning it's feathers. To me, it seems potentially difficult to know the difference between what you need and what you have, if what you need has come to play a large role in how you act.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Yeah, I'd think Mirror and even Activity would be much closer to seeming like Identical.. Mirror obviously cause of the reversed functions.. but Activity cause usually people think they're stronger in their 6th function than 5th.. and like showing off with it.
    It seems like this must lead to some embarrassing situations between activity partners. Is it common for activity partners to overcompensate and drift apart?

    Also, tell me what it feels like for you to encounter your dual-seeking function in another person. Let's say you've been "displaying" your desire for quite some time, like a peacock fanning it's feathers. To me, it seems potentially difficult to know the difference between what you need and what you have, if what you need has come to play a large role in how you act.
    I find that we don't tend to compensate enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Yeah, I'd think Mirror and even Activity would be much closer to seeming like Identical.. Mirror obviously cause of the reversed functions.. but Activity cause usually people think they're stronger in their 6th function than 5th.. and like showing off with it.
    It seems like this must lead to some embarrassing situations between activity partners. Is it common for activity partners to overcompensate and drift apart?
    I think activity is misunderstood. On an immediate level, and perhaps in many ways romantic too, Activity relationships feel better to the given type than dual relationships. This is especially true for IxFx-IxTx couples where, being both introverts, there is not a prepunderance of arguments. Also in an Ixxp-Ixxj the p/j difference is not as weighty as in an EP/EJ in my experience...

    The reason is simple in my opinion: activity partners share negativism-negativsm and positivism-positivism. Among the manifestations of negativism, there is one that (and I have observed) says that negs don't like people that omit the negative part of things, and positivists the opposite. Now imagine the situation, two positivists always give praise to each other, and so feel better, two negativists always criticize everything, and thus feel like they are them against the world...plus add that extraverts both like to socialize whereas in an E-I relationship there's always going to be resistance from the side of the introvert when trying new things...and the extravert party can quickly start to see how his activty partner would be "better" in this context...introverts are also usually pissed off when the extravert forces them to try new things - after a bit they are happy, but it's not really nice to see somebody always pissed off when you are trying to do him a favour..

    I understand how it sounds like a rant, but it's just a muddle of observations.

    Also in regard to what has been said in matters of 6th function: no. The reason is simple: the main difference between activity and dual is that the reversed order of the two functions make the type extravert/introvert rather than e/e or i/i.

    Practical example: INTp ISFj. The INTp can use Te as much as he wishes but in the end the Te of an ENTj is an "EJ" Te so more likely to directly "get things done" and "move" whereas the Te of an INTp is more likely do "Advise" or "teach" an ESFp how to get things done (supposing here that usually the extravert party is the one that gets the most done); same thing for the Se of an ISFj, usually used to "stay on track" and "get things done" in a narrow sense (ex the ENTj does the core of the work and the ISFj takes care of all the details) whereas an ESFp uses Se to "do everything" if you know what I mean, and then the INTp's Te "rearranges" what the ESFp has done
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    Default Re: dual vs. identical

    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    So, would a dual relation ever appear identical?
    I think when you first meet your dual, the similarities in quadra values may give this impression; as you get to know your dual, I think it becomes clear that it isn't the case.
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    I know when I first met my ESFp friend over a year ago, albeit I only knew MBTI back then, and BARELY at that, I actually mistook her for the same type as myself. I think that was partly projection though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLauritson
    I know when I first met my ESFp friend over a year ago, albeit I only knew MBTI back then, and BARELY at that, I actually mistook her for the same type as myself. I think that was partly projection though.
    yeah, this is what i am thinking about. we are human beings constantly in the business of projection, so a lack of / distaste for something can easily be expressed as an abundance / preference.

    For example

    Imagine you meet someone who is wearing the same shirt you once stored in the back of your closet. seeing him wear it makes you recall your shirt and its whereabouts, and you sort of chuckle and get a little excited about remembering it. so you discuss his shirt as if it were your own, and as if you were actively wearing it, perhaps remarking about the few times you may have worn yours. you appear similar now because you have discovered that you own the same shirt, and the excitement you feel at having remembered your forgotten shirt makes it appear a lot more your becoming on you than it really is. the truth may be instead that you never felt comfortable in it, you thought it ugly, you were saving it until you lost weight, until next halloween, etc.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    I don't think I've ever mistaken an ESFj for an INTj. Don't think it's possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I don't think I've ever mistaken an ESFj for an INTj. Don't think it's possible.
    but have you ever mistaken somebody's liking a shirt for your liking a shirt?

    kidding.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I don't think I've ever mistaken an ESFj for an INTj. Don't think it's possible.
    but have you ever mistaken somebody's liking a shirt for your liking a shirt?

    kidding.
    DOES NOT COMPUTE

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I don't think I've ever mistaken an ESFj for an INTj. Don't think it's possible.
    but have you ever mistaken somebody's liking a shirt for your liking a shirt?

    kidding.
    DOES NOT COMPUTE
    not even considering my example?
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I don't think I've ever mistaken an ESFj for an INTj. Don't think it's possible.
    but have you ever mistaken somebody's liking a shirt for your liking a shirt?

    kidding.
    DOES NOT COMPUTE
    not even considering my example?
    I get what you mean, but I don't see how it can be construed as a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I don't think I've ever mistaken an ESFj for an INTj. Don't think it's possible.
    but have you ever mistaken somebody's liking a shirt for your liking a shirt?

    kidding.
    DOES NOT COMPUTE
    not even considering my example?
    I get what you mean, but I don't see how it can be construed as a joke.
    it wasn't a joke in the funny way, just in that i wasn't seriously asking you a question i wanted answered.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    I agree that mirror relations can get confusing. I actually have had the least confusion with Identicals in telling myself apart from them. If I am with an Si ESFj or Ti ENTp (i think Ti, not sure which subtype) I can tend to "disappear" into the relation. Though, I also think it's true that with time it becomes clear that you are different people. But there are definitely moments where I get really confused about who is supposed to be taking what stance. I suppose it has to do with the interactions being subconscious?

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    Default Re: dual vs. identical

    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
    I am wondering if the dual seeking function is sometimes, in practice, mistaken for an ego block function, enough that when we recognize it in another person(dual), especially in the early stages of a relationship, we think, "Hey, that's me!" (when in reality it may be more like "That's what i need....").

    So, would a dual relation ever appear identical?
    i get what you're saying.

    i once tried to make a psychological trick in my mind of how i could discover my dual easyer.

    i thought i had to be looking for someone that is something like me. (that's some sort of feeling you get when you are with your dual, "we are the same somehow" / "we are on the same wavelength")

    in the end, that trick doesn't work, and it probably is indeed possible to find an identical with it.


    but it was only when applying a sort of poor trick, but in normal cases everyone who knows socionics would never mistake his dual from his identical.

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    Conversations with duals can seem like a dialogue with your inner voice - they seem to be happening in a safe environment, and you understand what the other person is saying with little clarification over meaning. They can seem quite like you, at least to begin with - you are aware of where you are strong and where you are weak, and this is exactly opposite to your dual - but there is something distinctly familiar about how they act, as though they are like how you would wish to be, if only for a little while.
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