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Thread: Explain this

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    Default Explain this...

    I was talking to a friend of mine in the afternoon. He's interested in opening web sites, but I think he's too scattered and will end up doing nothing. I told him straight that, on my experience, what he proposes is already outdated (trying to sell commercial spaces) because there are many sites out there already and thus too much competition. To sell space you must have strong presence, as the amount you can charge is directly related to the amount of people you reach.

    At this moment my friend "broke" saying "if you're being negative then I don't want to work with you" and I told him that one must consider the possible causes of failure as much as the ones for success. Then say "well, ok, let's do the opposite, tell me which reasons do you have to think it's going to be profitable". Then he replied "Know what? I don't want to tell you. I don't care to explain it to you. I know I can do it and the more people says I can't, the more effort I put to show them I can".

    At this moment I lost any hope to get my friend to understand that I wasn't criticizing his person, but rather his ideas, like any good business partner must do.

    My question is: how can an ENFp hit the PoLR of other ENFp? Something's off here.
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    Judging from some of your posts here, I find that you tend to not use any tact in things that you say, so you probably fucked it up by how you talked to him.
    Nothing bad against you, just the way I read some of your posts.
    As far as hitting a polr... i have no clue about this stuff.

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    when will you realize that you resemble a brick more than you do an IEE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka
    Judging from some of your posts here, I find that you tend to not use any tact in things that you say, so you probably fucked it up by how you talked to him.
    Nothing bad against you, just the way I read some of your posts.
    As far as hitting a polr... i have no clue about this stuff.
    Yea. I agree with this. It's probably how you phrased it, how you brought the message across to him.
    You sounded like you simply put him down, before he's even finished.
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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Well, I believe the problem is a bit more complex. I'm sure that when he called me he was expecting an ego massage, which is something I don't like to do. I do admit that I can be a bit harsh sometimes but my way of "harshness" doesn't have anything to do with using rough language (I rarely insult others), but rather about being overly sincere. I do prefer an ugly truth to a beautiful lie any day of the week. And I was noticing several things off...

    Thing here is that I noticed he was stuck in the "Ne loop", endlessly trying new options to make the structure of the site without really doing anything with them. So I simply suggested him to stop looking for options and do something, anything, overlooking the possibility that it might not be the best way. After all, it can be fixed later, but only if you really have something working.

    I also told him that he should spend a bit of time writing down his goals and stick to them. I even gave him a link of a program which makes it very easy to create hierarchal lists, so he can set global goals and then subgoals and so on, and perform one by one, because this way he can avoid getting stuck.

    But I know I hit his PoLR because I told him that it was completely unreasonable to state something without being willing to back it up.
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    Default Re: Explain this...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    I was talking to a friend of mine in the afternoon. He's interested in opening web sites, but I think he's too scattered and will end up doing nothing. I told him straight that, on my experience, what he proposes is already outdated (trying to sell commercial spaces) because there are many sites out there already and thus too much competition. To sell space you must have strong presence, as the amount you can charge is directly related to the amount of people you reach.

    At this moment my friend "broke" saying "if you're being negative then I don't want to work with you" and I told him that one must consider the possible causes of failure as much as the ones for success. Then say "well, ok, let's do the opposite, tell me which reasons do you have to think it's going to be profitable". Then he replied "Know what? I don't want to tell you. I don't care to explain it to you. I know I can do it and the more people says I can't, the more effort I put to show them I can".

    At this moment I lost any hope to get my friend to understand that I wasn't criticizing his person, but rather his ideas, like any good business partner must do.

    My question is: how can an ENFp hit the PoLR of other ENFp? Something's off here.
    I don't think you're an ENFp, and the conversation you wrote sounds more like ENFp/ISTj conflict than anything. To him, you were being too close-minded about a new project and very blunt about sharing your analysis, and to you he was behaving irrationally and unrealistically.

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    Non-socionics related answer: You're not tactful at all, you probably didn't hit his polr, you probably just offended him with a total of tact.

    Socionics: Between Identical types, there is competition. He could of perhaps percieved you as trying to one-up him. just because a person is hurt/offended/whatever, it doesn't have to be related the polr. People get most offensive and responsive when there Leading Function is attacked. If you don't give what's due to their leading function, then you're percieved as an enemy/somebody just not likeable. You tried to belittle his not help with anything else. That's the most likely scenario,

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePeddler
    Non-socionics related answer: You're not tactful at all, you probably didn't hit his polr, you probably just offended him with a total of tact.

    Socionics: Between Identical types, there is competition. He could of perhaps percieved you as trying to one-up him. just because a person is hurt/offended/whatever, it doesn't have to be related the polr. People get most offensive and responsive when there Leading Function is attacked. If you don't give what's due to their leading function, then you're percieved as an enemy/somebody just not likeable. You tried to belittle his not help with anything else. That's the most likely scenario,
    Since you're an ENFp, you should understand this.
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    Default Re: Explain this...

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    I was talking to a friend of mine in the afternoon. He's interested in opening web sites, but I think he's too scattered and will end up doing nothing. I told him straight that, on my experience, what he proposes is already outdated (trying to sell commercial spaces) because there are many sites out there already and thus too much competition. To sell space you must have strong presence, as the amount you can charge is directly related to the amount of people you reach.

    At this moment my friend "broke" saying "if you're being negative then I don't want to work with you" and I told him that one must consider the possible causes of failure as much as the ones for success. Then say "well, ok, let's do the opposite, tell me which reasons do you have to think it's going to be profitable". Then he replied "Know what? I don't want to tell you. I don't care to explain it to you. I know I can do it and the more people says I can't, the more effort I put to show them I can".

    At this moment I lost any hope to get my friend to understand that I wasn't criticizing his person, but rather his ideas, like any good business partner must do.

    My question is: how can an ENFp hit the PoLR of other ENFp? Something's off here.
    I don't think you're an ENFp, and the conversation you wrote sounds more like ENFp/ISTj conflict than anything. To him, you were being too close-minded about a new project and very blunt about sharing your analysis, and to you he was behaving irrationally and unrealistically.
    i don't see the Se at all.

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    Default Re: Explain this...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    I was talking to a friend of mine in the afternoon. He's interested in opening web sites, but I think he's too scattered and will end up doing nothing. I told him straight that, on my experience, what he proposes is already outdated (trying to sell commercial spaces) because there are many sites out there already and thus too much competition. To sell space you must have strong presence, as the amount you can charge is directly related to the amount of people you reach.

    At this moment my friend "broke" saying "if you're being negative then I don't want to work with you" and I told him that one must consider the possible causes of failure as much as the ones for success. Then say "well, ok, let's do the opposite, tell me which reasons do you have to think it's going to be profitable". Then he replied "Know what? I don't want to tell you. I don't care to explain it to you. I know I can do it and the more people says I can't, the more effort I put to show them I can".

    At this moment I lost any hope to get my friend to understand that I wasn't criticizing his person, but rather his ideas, like any good business partner must do.

    My question is: how can an ENFp hit the PoLR of other ENFp? Something's off here.
    First of all, anyone can draw attention to a person's PoLR and any related sensitivities. It doesn't have to be a strong function in the person who pointed it out.
    Secondly, people may be sensitive to something even if it's not type-related.

    I'll give the following example (not specifically about PoLR but about a weakness someone might have). Say someone procrastinates something and you remind the person of that fact. That person may not know that you also procrastinate stuff yourself, and may be sensitive to the remark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Well, I believe the problem is a bit more complex.

    But I know I hit his PoLR because I told him that it was completely unreasonable to state something without being willing to back it up.
    no, it's your way of viewing things and making sure the other person see's it your way forcing it on them even if it can be seen another way that you don't see, lack of tact.
    just because you pissed a person off doesn't mean you hit his polr.

    Seriously, I never comment on your posts but I can actually see where your buddy is coming from by thinking, wtf... Just because of the way you post here... like many others, you are most likely the same way IRL.

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    Yeah this thread does perplex me. Tact is something i usually have in healthy supply. The 10% of the time when im grumpy or do say something that needs to be said (which perhaps in this case it does), i am very quick to say the negative and follow up straight away with a positive. Im never left wondering why / how i hurt someones feelings as i generally know what will shit them off.
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    Neveg gave Mikemex's type a whole lot of thought, but ILE is possible. Probably moreso than IEE, from what I observe.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    What really makes my soul bleed, mikemex, is that you are untactful ON PURPOSE just in order to complain how people "misunderstand you". Poor misunderstood genius. Screw you and your fucking inventions and go learn how to interact with people.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    What really makes my soul bleed, mikemex, is that you are untactful ON PURPOSE just in order to complain how people "misunderstand you". Poor misunderstood genius. Screw you and your fucking inventions and go learn how to interact with people.
    This is the same interesting phenomenon again. FDG thinks that the kind of behaviour mikemex was guilty of is deliberately untactful, as if there is some kind of evil agenda behind it. Maybe there is in mikemex's case, but I have no reason to suspect that here, since his behaviour in this particular case is almost exactly how I would have acted, and I am never saying such things to hurt the other person but ONLY to help him or her. In this scenario mikemex's behaviour is typical of me, and the other person's behaviour is a clear sign of a non-T type.

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    Yes but FDG probably reaches that conclusion from his observations of mikemex's behavior so far, so even if incorrect, it does not come out of nowhere. He's not reading that post in isolation from mikemex's other posts.
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    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes but FDG probably reaches that conclusion from his observations of mikemex's behavior so far, so even if incorrect, it does not come out of nowhere. He's not reading that post in isolation from mikemex's other posts.
    I know that there are other indications supporting such a conclusion in mikemex's case, and that's why I wasn't sure how to interpret it. But I know that such a conclusion is unwarranted in my own case, and still FDG say similar things about me. And mikemex's behaviour in this particular case is not very typical of an ENFp. I would say that it is typical ILI behaviour (not saying that other T types could not act and reason similarly), and I would never dream of interpreting such a beahiour as malicious. (And of course I am not suggesting that mikemex is an ILI.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes but FDG probably reaches that conclusion from his observations of mikemex's behavior so far, so even if incorrect, it does not come out of nowhere. He's not reading that post in isolation from mikemex's other posts.
    I know that there are other indications supporting such a conclusion in mikemex's case, and that's why I wasn't sure how to interpret it. But I know that such a conclusion is unwarranted in my own case, and still FDG say similar things about me. And mikemex's behaviour in this particular case is not very typical of an ENFp. I would say that it is typical ILI behaviour (not saying that other T types could not act and reason similarly), and I would never dream of interpreting such a beahiour as malicious. (And of course I am not suggesting that mikemex is an ILI.)
    As in 'The Critic'?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes but FDG probably reaches that conclusion from his observations of mikemex's behavior so far, so even if incorrect, it does not come out of nowhere. He's not reading that post in isolation from mikemex's other posts.
    I know that there are other indications supporting such a conclusion in mikemex's case, and that's why I wasn't sure how to interpret it. But I know that such a conclusion is unwarranted in my own case, and still FDG say similar things about me. And mikemex's behaviour in this particular case is not very typical of an ENFp. I would say that it is typical ILI behaviour (not saying that other T types could not act and reason similarly), and I would never dream of interpreting such a beahiour as malicious. (And of course I am not suggesting that mikemex is an ILI.)
    As in 'The Critic'?
    As what in the Critic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes but FDG probably reaches that conclusion from his observations of mikemex's behavior so far, so even if incorrect, it does not come out of nowhere. He's not reading that post in isolation from mikemex's other posts.
    I know that there are other indications supporting such a conclusion in mikemex's case, and that's why I wasn't sure how to interpret it. But I know that such a conclusion is unwarranted in my own case, and still FDG say similar things about me. And mikemex's behaviour in this particular case is not very typical of an ENFp. I would say that it is typical ILI behaviour (not saying that other T types could not act and reason similarly), and I would never dream of interpreting such a beahiour as malicious. (And of course I am not suggesting that mikemex is an ILI.)
    As in 'The Critic'?
    As what in the Critic?
    ILI Behaviour. ILIs are given the nicknames of "The Critic" and "The Observer" (Although that's a newspaper).
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes but FDG probably reaches that conclusion from his observations of mikemex's behavior so far, so even if incorrect, it does not come out of nowhere. He's not reading that post in isolation from mikemex's other posts.
    I know that there are other indications supporting such a conclusion in mikemex's case, and that's why I wasn't sure how to interpret it. But I know that such a conclusion is unwarranted in my own case, and still FDG say similar things about me. And mikemex's behaviour in this particular case is not very typical of an ENFp. I would say that it is typical ILI behaviour (not saying that other T types could not act and reason similarly), and I would never dream of interpreting such a beahiour as malicious. (And of course I am not suggesting that mikemex is an ILI.)
    As in 'The Critic'?
    As what in the Critic?
    ILI Behaviour. ILIs are given the nicknames of "The Critic" and "The Observer" (Although that's a newspaper).
    Yes. Is there a deeper point to this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes but FDG probably reaches that conclusion from his observations of mikemex's behavior so far, so even if incorrect, it does not come out of nowhere. He's not reading that post in isolation from mikemex's other posts.
    I know that there are other indications supporting such a conclusion in mikemex's case, and that's why I wasn't sure how to interpret it. But I know that such a conclusion is unwarranted in my own case, and still FDG say similar things about me. And mikemex's behaviour in this particular case is not very typical of an ENFp. I would say that it is typical ILI behaviour (not saying that other T types could not act and reason similarly), and I would never dream of interpreting such a beahiour as malicious. (And of course I am not suggesting that mikemex is an ILI.)
    As in 'The Critic'?
    As what in the Critic?
    ILI Behaviour. ILIs are given the nicknames of "The Critic" and "The Observer" (Although that's a newspaper).
    Yes. Is there a deeper point to this?
    It just might be the meaning of life as we know it, or it could be taken at face value. It's up to you how long you wish to study it for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes but FDG probably reaches that conclusion from his observations of mikemex's behavior so far, so even if incorrect, it does not come out of nowhere. He's not reading that post in isolation from mikemex's other posts.
    I know that there are other indications supporting such a conclusion in mikemex's case, and that's why I wasn't sure how to interpret it. But I know that such a conclusion is unwarranted in my own case, and still FDG say similar things about me. And mikemex's behaviour in this particular case is not very typical of an ENFp. I would say that it is typical ILI behaviour (not saying that other T types could not act and reason similarly), and I would never dream of interpreting such a beahiour as malicious. (And of course I am not suggesting that mikemex is an ILI.)
    As in 'The Critic'?
    As what in the Critic?
    ILI Behaviour. ILIs are given the nicknames of "The Critic" and "The Observer" (Although that's a newspaper).
    Yes. Is there a deeper point to this?
    It just might be the meaning of life as we know it, or it could be taken at face value. It's up to you how long you wish to study it for.
    I did study problem of the meaning of life for some years in the past until I solved it. Nowadays I am more fascinated by Socionics. Your way of writing here expresses the peculiarities of an ILI's thinking process, for example the mentioning that The Observer is also a newspaper. And mikemex's behaviour as described in his post is very similar to how I myself once describe the interaction between an ILI and an IEE discussing future business plans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    What really makes my soul bleed, mikemex, is that you are untactful ON PURPOSE just in order to complain how people "misunderstand you". Poor misunderstood genius. Screw you and your fucking inventions and go learn how to interact with people.
    This is the same interesting phenomenon again. FDG thinks that the kind of behaviour mikemex was guilty of is deliberately untactful, as if there is some kind of evil agenda behind it. Maybe there is in mikemex's case, but I have no reason to suspect that here, since his behaviour in this particular case is almost exactly how I would have acted, and I am never saying such things to hurt the other person but ONLY to help him or her. In this scenario mikemex's behaviour is typical of me, and the other person's behaviour is a clear sign of a non-T type.
    Obviously you should just shut up because you are the last person on earth that should speak about human dynamics, please please please.

    ALL the ILI-s I know IRL are very tactful people. They are all more tactful than me on average. KSpin is an example of a "normal" ILI, you are just subpar in everything, from intelligence to social skills to modesty.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I must admit ENFp's can throw the spanner in the works sometimes deliberately as FDG said. Normally only do it to people who are really shitting us off though.

    Some things with Mikemex dont make total sense to me. He considerably calls himself and ENFp's intellectuals, however ive never seen any other ones do that. Hes bagging his ENFp friend for being Scattered? Um thats what ENFp's are lol..

    I often get the feeling that if Mike is really an ENFp he is denying his natural ability with people. Constantly professing his intelligence might be related to sheltering his POLR? That being said he does seem to make some really Intelligent and Ne focused points that i could never make. It could all come down to your family situation. Your father is a supervisor which perhaps promoted your Ne but has put pressure on your Ti? I can relate to this as my dads my conflictor..

    I just dont see ENFp's as being the "keepers of information" as he does. We have our own strange forms of intelligence that im confident in. I personally dont often like putting my thinking down in this forum. I feel like the Ti vultures will rip it apart.
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    Yeah Mike doesn't sound much like an ENFp to me in this thread either. More ENTp.
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    ISTj. Definitely. Something is off there, Mike.

    In which case, an ISTj can easily "hit the PoLR" of an ENFp.

    However, if you want to know how an ENFp can hit the PoLR of another ENFp, for another reason entirely, which I assume you don't, then I can't help you.

    Put it this way, Mike, it doesn't happen. It's logically impossible.

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    Default Re: Explain this...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    I was talking to a friend of mine in the afternoon. He's interested in opening web sites, but I think he's too scattered and will end up doing nothing. I told him straight that, on my experience, what he proposes is already outdated (trying to sell commercial spaces) because there are many sites out there already and thus too much competition. To sell space you must have strong presence, as the amount you can charge is directly related to the amount of people you reach.

    At this moment my friend "broke" saying "if you're being negative then I don't want to work with you" and I told him that one must consider the possible causes of failure as much as the ones for success. Then say "well, ok, let's do the opposite, tell me which reasons do you have to think it's going to be profitable". Then he replied "Know what? I don't want to tell you. I don't care to explain it to you. I know I can do it and the more people says I can't, the more effort I put to show them I can".

    At this moment I lost any hope to get my friend to understand that I wasn't criticizing his person, but rather his ideas, like any good business partner must do.

    My question is: how can an ENFp hit the PoLR of other ENFp? Something's off here.
    Often times when I have an idea of something, and I share it with my NiFe bro, he'll give me information/suggestions that unintendedly come off as seeming to put my idea down. His intent, I believe, is to let me know what problems I will face in my project. The effect, however, is very aggravating and drains my motivations. Sometimes, I just won't share my ideas with him because of this.

    Sometimes, however, he'll start listing off ways I can expand my original idea. This is almost as aggravating in that I already have issues with expanding ideas too much and not narrowing anything down into something actually doable, or at the least relatively easily accomplishable. (If I can actually accomplish something, no matter how small, I feel a sense of satisfaction and am more likely to pursue the project more, or even quit the project because now I have a first hand idea of what I'm up against.)

    Mikemex, you make it seem like your friend has difficulty accomplishing things.
    He also probably needs to actually attempt to stick his hands own hands into the gunk in order to figure out that it's gunk.
    You attempted to save him the learning process as well as the potential aha moments of understanding or potential accomplishment.

    Only AFTER you had shot down his idea did you ask him for information, and even then it was demanded in such a way as to prove YOUR point...and not towards helping him learn. Had you instead, from the beginning, asked him such questions as how does he intend to start out? what resources will he need? (i don't know anything about starting websites soo.... insert whatever other relevant questions to the actual how's of doing.)

    It's also unrealistic to expect him to know all about the ins and outs, consequences/results, and all the other details of a subject/project that he is only JUST beginning to think about or learn about. Do you expect a preschooler to skip learning the ABCs and automatically know how to read a college text book??? Do you expect a person who just learned how to save a word document to automatically know how to program something new???

    Next time, instead of trying to force him to see what you see ...as a person who's already gained insight and successes....,
    instead of asking him questions of consequences/results of a matter he's just beginning to learn about...
    ask him questions of HOW he intends to accomplish something.
    And remind yourself that you had failures in some of your endeavors too. But that you learned something from those failures. And that you, at least, were lucky enough to have some who supported your efforts, even if at times they felt you were making a mistake.

    In other words, be a FRIEND to your friend, not a business partner (unless of course you have a business relationship with him...which I doubt considering you seem to see him as too scattered to accomplish anything).
    ****

    As for whether or not an identical can hit the polr of an identical...yes, it happens a lot.
    It also happens a lot that one's base/creative takes them in a different direction than another identical's base/creative.
    Think of TiNe arguing with each other over Ti stuff.
    or even NeFi arguing with each other over Fi stuff.

    functions are supposedly about preferences...not necessarily abilities.
    if mikemex is NeFi, he still has the ability to have a stronger Ti or even Te than his friend. especially considering that mikemex is an inventor, and thus has had to utilize his T (good and bad) far more often than his friend may have.
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    You mean that the great Mikemex, who seemingly is nothing but critical about INTjs, may himself be an ENTp, a fellow Alpha, and mirror of the INTj? This is too rich.

    I'm sorry though. Mikemex behaves quite differently from the rest of the ENTps on this forum. Until I am convinced otherwise, you can keep him in Delta.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    You mean that the great Mikemex, who seemingly is nothing but critical about INTjs, may himself be an ENTp, a fellow Alpha, and mirror of the INTj? This is too rich.

    I'm sorry though. Mikemex behaves quite differently from the rest of the ENTps on this forum. Until I am convinced otherwise, you can keep him in Delta.
    ROFL!
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    since you people are too stupid to figure this out, i will explain it to you.

    mikemex is an Fe dominant. his dual is the LSI. he expects people to give him very clear instructions that will get things to work. if he does not receive these instructions, he comports himself in a confused manner, wondering why IEEs with Ti polrs respond so poorly to his honest feedback instead of explaining to him the detailed reasons why their ideas will work.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    I'm sorry though. Mikemex behaves quite differently from the rest of the ENTps on this forum. Until I am convinced otherwise, you can keep him in Delta.
    Okay, but if not ISTj, ESTj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    I'm sorry though. Mikemex behaves quite differently from the rest of the ENTps on this forum. Until I am convinced otherwise, you can keep him in Delta.
    Okay, but if not ISTj, ESTj.
    I never said that he is not ISTj. I just said that he is most likely not an ENTp or even an INTj for that matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Okay, but if not ISTj, ESTj.
    You need to shuttup until you actually know something about Socionics.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Okay, but if not ISTj, ESTj.
    You need to shuttup until you actually know something about Socionics.
    Hahahaha. I was waiting for a comment from someone like that. It just happened to by you, Gilly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    ISTj. Definitely. Something is off there, Mike.

    In which case, an ISTj can easily "hit the PoLR" of an ENFp.

    However, if you want to know how an ENFp can hit the PoLR of another ENFp, for another reason entirely, which I assume you don't, then I can't help you.

    Put it this way, Mike, it doesn't happen. It's logically impossible.
    Dumbfuck.
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    Default Re: Explain this...

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    I was talking to a friend of mine in the afternoon. He's interested in opening web sites, but I think he's too scattered and will end up doing nothing. I told him straight that, on my experience, what he proposes is already outdated (trying to sell commercial spaces) because there are many sites out there already and thus too much competition. To sell space you must have strong presence, as the amount you can charge is directly related to the amount of people you reach.

    At this moment my friend "broke" saying "if you're being negative then I don't want to work with you" and I told him that one must consider the possible causes of failure as much as the ones for success. Then say "well, ok, let's do the opposite, tell me which reasons do you have to think it's going to be profitable". Then he replied "Know what? I don't want to tell you. I don't care to explain it to you. I know I can do it and the more people says I can't, the more effort I put to show them I can".

    At this moment I lost any hope to get my friend to understand that I wasn't criticizing his person, but rather his ideas, like any good business partner must do.

    My question is: how can an ENFp hit the PoLR of other ENFp? Something's off here.
    I don't think you're an ENFp, and the conversation you wrote sounds more like ENFp/ISTj conflict than anything. To him, you were being too close-minded about a new project and very blunt about sharing your analysis, and to you he was behaving irrationally and unrealistically.
    i don't see the Se at all.
    I don't read any of his posts. I was just going by that conversation, where I could see a pushy ISTj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Okay, but if not ISTj, ESTj.
    You need to shuttup until you actually know something about Socionics.
    Don't be a mean boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    since you people are too stupid to figure this out, i will explain it to you.

    mikemex is an Fe dominant. his dual is the LSI. he expects people to give him very clear instructions that will get things to work. if he does not receive these instructions, he comports himself in a confused manner, wondering why IEEs with Ti polrs respond so poorly to his honest feedback instead of explaining to him the detailed reasons why their ideas will work.
    Yeah, ENFps are definitely interested in positive feedback, much more so than straightforward criticism.

  40. #40
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Okay, but if not ISTj, ESTj.
    You need to shuttup until you actually know something about Socionics.
    Don't be a mean boy.
    Sarry Daddy. I go get switch for you.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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