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Thread: PoLR and Quadra identification

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    Default PoLR and Quadra identification

    I just thout that this whole thing about the Fi PoLR (especially from ESTps) being "cute" is kind of a funny phenomenom. This is what gave me the idea:

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Well, just a tiny update here: I have experienced the ESTp Fi PoLR.. I think it's cute =D LOL. Imagine how an ISFj or INFj would react though ... ! He has admitted to me how he feels like he is an "emotional cripple" sometimes and doesn't like to speak about inner feelings.. rather keeps a mental log of what happens to him and contemplates it personally instead of talking about it. However, he said he'd talk about it with me whenever I wanted =] I had to prod at him and stuff to get him to be more emotionally open and it made me very happy when he compared me to an ex of his - "psycho" - and said that they never did anything "meaningful" like we do.. aww He actually thinks us talking is meaningful and .. it just made me feel good inside that you know, I am one of those rare people he speaks to about his emotions.


    Is this just a common view among Betas about our PoLRs or something? I tend to view the PoLRs of those within my quadra as being kind of funny to watch in a way, because I always feel that I can somehow relate (even though the function in question might not actually be my PoLR).

    Speaking of which, I was observing this one guy in my Spanish class who is hardcore ESTp, probably split subtype. He's a year or so younger than me, and always does stupid PoLR related stuff that I always did back when I was younger. Whenever he's being an ass, I can always tell that the teacher is about to unintentionally fuck with his PoLR, and it's actually really painful to watch. Whenever this happens, he gets all quiet for a few minutes and his face turns bright red. I think what he's doing is that he's trying to get in the wrong way, and ends up getting reprehended from the Gamma-Delta axis of the class. What doesn't help is that he has this ENFj kid who constantly riles him up and makes him act like this, thus he gets pwned in this manner more than he normally would.

    On a side note, I heard an ISFj teacher complaining about him in the teachers lounge, and I told him about it. I didn't tell him who it was though, and he went all out trying to use little clues that I gave him to figure out who it was (IE tone of voice, words used, etc.). He ended up figuring it out correctly!

    You guys got any experiences with this whole subject?
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    What exactly is the subject?

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    Is this just a common view among Betas about our PoLRs or something? I tend to view the PoLRs of those within my quadra as being kind of funny to watch in a way, because I always feel that I can somehow relate (even though the function in question might not actually be my PoLR). Can any of you relate?
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    Yes I relate, I find it very easy to relate too those of my own quadra. You can feel with them in the bitterness
    because you yourself have been there

    Talking about fi polr, If an ESTp revealed his most inner apple pie too a person then that person goes too an internet board and posts about it. And we all laugh heartly of it, does that hit his polr?

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    Well, the most illustrative example of ESTp's Fi-PoLR is my ESTp brother and ISFj mom. "Cute" is not the term I would use to describe this phenomenon, lol. It is funny, though, especially since my mom's Fi drives me up the wall.

    Basically, my mom has these notions of ethical/social/moral "truth." Where they came from, I'll never know. They none of them make any logical sense to me, most come across as narrowmindedness, many are offensive, and she states them, not merely as opinion. They are unshakable truths beyond all debate:
    - People with tattoos are evil.
    - Everyone who doesn't follow a major religion (except Islam: see below) is evil.
    - Hippies are evil.
    - White people are evil.
    - Black people are dangerous.
    - Muslims are evil.
    - Cats are evil.
    - Smoking is evil.
    - I am evil.
    - It's wrong to object to anything your parents say. (She gasps audibly when I don't agree with her. )
    - Sex is evil.

    Now you can imagine the sort of conflict that develops whe my mom expresses these sorts of views and tries to impose them on the rest of the family. All of this she does with the same certainty and casualness one lends to the phase "It's rainng outside." My brother gets continually frustrated, arguing why what she's aying makes no sense. My mom gets continually frustrated, only instead of arguing shrugs off any logical basis for protestation, because he just doesn't understand these matters of fact. Things can get pretty loud sometimes... violent words from both sides.

    I do get frustrated with ESTps sometimes because they will do things without thinking, and sometimes end up seriously hurting people and themselves. I guess that's what I'm here for... to make ethics make sense for them.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    she's right about the cats thing. <3
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    What I think is important is that the feeling is often mutual. Perhaps depends of the intertype relationship though? But anyway..

    So if the feeling is mutual you just have to give that little extra and you will prevail! I think this works for most things, if you are not conscious of this it is just coincidence who gets the upper hand. In my experience it seems both parts give about the same amount of energy to the conflict. So in most cases you don't need new perspective, you just need to keep pushing forward! The enemy is just about to fall down too its knees!

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    she's right about the cats thing. <3
    I thougt that might be one thing we could agree on, but she also hated our family dog, my pet rats and hamsters, and my venus fly trap plant.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    - People with tattoos are evil.
    - Everyone who doesn't follow a major religion (except Islam: see below) is evil.
    - Hippies are evil.
    - White people are evil.
    - Black people are dangerous.
    - Muslims are evil.
    - Cats are evil.
    - Smoking is evil.
    - I am evil.
    - It's wrong to object to anything your parents say. (She gasps audibly when I don't agree with her. )
    - Sex is evil.
    LoL, she sounds like my mother, and I laugh in her face whenever I hear anything of the sort. You sure she's not an Fe type gone sour? It all sounds like bad Ti. I've never heard such narrow-minded stereotyping from INFjs or ISFjs, plus I don't get the urge to laugh in their faces because their words -- even their very presence -- have an immediate appeal to my conscience. IME this has been quite true:
    Introverted the feeling type also possesses property to be adapted to the life mainly with the help of a feeling, but expressed in the introverted form. To comprehend people of this type is very difficult. [Junga] in “psychological types” he indicates that saying “calm waters are deep” it relates precisely to this type of people. They possess the highly differentiated system of values, but outwardly it they do not demonstrate, it acts on them from within. There, where outstanding events occur, introverted the feeling type it is possible frequently to discover on the second plan, as if introverted a feeling prompts to it: “this is actually important”. Developing peculiar silent loyalty and nothing explaining, they appear in those places, where it is possible to become the witnesses of important and valuable internal events and arkhetipicheskuju of constellations. Furthermore, they usually have a secret positive effect on their environment, establishing the standards of behavior. And although, being introvert, they do not speak out aloud, people control them, and thus the installation of standards is carried out. Introverted the feeling types, for example, frequently form the ethical foundation of group, without irritating others by reading sermons and moral manuals, — they they possess the such exact standards of moral values, that from them proceeds the secret emanation, which has a positive effect on those surrounding. In their presence it is necessary to behave correctly, because they possess the authentic standards of values, which always suggest respect, which force others to be held worthily. Them that differentiated introverted a feeling determines, what factor is properly important.
    I am also reminded of an argument between me and my mother:
    Mother: You shouldn't take showers in the mornings. Anyone who showers in the morning is an idiot.
    Me: Pfft, I can think of a few people who shower in the morning and aren't idiots.
    Mother: Don't you dare argue with me!
    Me: With all your untruths, it's taking every effort not to---
    Mother *pours soup on me*
    “I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisonpure
    LoL, she sounds like my mother, and I laugh in her face whenever I hear anything of the sort. You sure she's not an Fe type gone sour? It all sounds like bad Ti. I've never heard such narrow-minded stereotyping from INFjs or ISFjs, plus I don't get the urge to laugh in their faces because their words -- even their very presence -- have an immediate appeal to my conscience. IME this has been quite true:
    It might be weak Ne?
    My ESFj mom is the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mea
    Quote Originally Posted by raisonpure
    LoL, she sounds like my mother, and I laugh in her face whenever I hear anything of the sort. You sure she's not an Fe type gone sour? It all sounds like bad Ti. I've never heard such narrow-minded stereotyping from INFjs or ISFjs, plus I don't get the urge to laugh in their faces because their words -- even their very presence -- have an immediate appeal to my conscience. IME this has been quite true:
    It might be weak Ne?
    My ESFj mom is the same.
    It's something that makes me go , but it isn't how PoLR manifests itself in my ISFj employer. Good question, actually... My ESTj teacher is also liable to such stereotyping, but not derogatory pronouncements.
    “I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)

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    Hmm... that would be interesting though - to see how each quadra deals with their porl, and look for a quadra trend.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Herzy =D Well.. the only reason I called Fi PoLR cute is because it really makes me want to help them express themselves more and not be afraid.. cause I won't bite in regards to that PoLR. I want them to be comfortable enough around me to not be afraid to use/confront/talk about Fi

    How can Te PoLR be cute .. or Si? Actually Si PoLR is extremely cute when I think about it LOL.. just the thought of the fashion combinations that some ENFjs come up with makes me inside. Hahahaha, oh, Freddie Mercury.. and being all clumsy & awkward with your surroundings.. bumping into things.. lmao.. do Beta STs find that "cute" ?

    Te PoLR is more annoying to me than anything, but that's just because I have it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by raisonpure
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    - People with tattoos are evil.
    - Everyone who doesn't follow a major religion (except Islam: see below) is evil.
    - Hippies are evil.
    - White people are evil.
    - Black people are dangerous.
    - Muslims are evil.
    - Cats are evil.
    - Smoking is evil.
    - I am evil.
    - It's wrong to object to anything your parents say. (She gasps audibly when I don't agree with her. )
    - Sex is evil.
    LoL, she sounds like my mother, and I laugh in her face whenever I hear anything of the sort. You sure she's not an Fe type gone sour? It all sounds like bad Ti. I've never heard such narrow-minded stereotyping from INFjs or ISFjs, plus I don't get the urge to laugh in their faces because their words -- even their very presence -- have an immediate appeal to my conscience. IME this has been quite true:
    Introverted the feeling type also possesses property to be adapted to the life mainly with the help of a feeling, but expressed in the introverted form. To comprehend people of this type is very difficult. [Junga] in “psychological types” he indicates that saying “calm waters are deep” it relates precisely to this type of people. They possess the highly differentiated system of values, but outwardly it they do not demonstrate, it acts on them from within. There, where outstanding events occur, introverted the feeling type it is possible frequently to discover on the second plan, as if introverted a feeling prompts to it: “this is actually important”. Developing peculiar silent loyalty and nothing explaining, they appear in those places, where it is possible to become the witnesses of important and valuable internal events and arkhetipicheskuju of constellations. Furthermore, they usually have a secret positive effect on their environment, establishing the standards of behavior. And although, being introvert, they do not speak out aloud, people control them, and thus the installation of standards is carried out. Introverted the feeling types, for example, frequently form the ethical foundation of group, without irritating others by reading sermons and moral manuals, — they they possess the such exact standards of moral values, that from them proceeds the secret emanation, which has a positive effect on those surrounding. In their presence it is necessary to behave correctly, because they possess the authentic standards of values, which always suggest respect, which force others to be held worthily. Them that differentiated introverted a feeling determines, what factor is properly important.
    I am also reminded of an argument between me and my mother:
    Mother: You shouldn't take showers in the mornings. Anyone who showers in the morning is an idiot.
    Me: Pfft, I can think of a few people who shower in the morning and aren't idiots.
    Mother: Don't you dare argue with me!
    Me: With all your untruths, it's taking every effort not to---
    Mother *pours soup on me*
    I'm pretty sure she's ISFj. I don't get the urge to laugh in her face. There is an earnestness there and a very conscientious woman underneath all of that stereotyping. Also, she seems to respond well to Te but not Ti. Me and my brother have Ti in spades. It does nothing to change her mind. Only my dad and my third aunt (ENTj) seem to be able to get her to see past it. I actually DID think she was ESFj for the longest time, but intertype relationships would have been way off. Granted, I need a disclaimer here that my mom has had psychological problems (mild schizophrenia and manic depression) for as long as I've known her, which made her very difficult to type and contribute to her paranoia about the entire world being evil. She's a good woman and has toughed it out through some terrible times.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    Quote Originally Posted by raisonpure
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    - People with tattoos are evil.
    - Everyone who doesn't follow a major religion (except Islam: see below) is evil.
    - Hippies are evil.
    - White people are evil.
    - Black people are dangerous.
    - Muslims are evil.
    - Cats are evil.
    - Smoking is evil.
    - I am evil.
    - It's wrong to object to anything your parents say. (She gasps audibly when I don't agree with her. )
    - Sex is evil.
    LoL, she sounds like my mother, and I laugh in her face whenever I hear anything of the sort. You sure she's not an Fe type gone sour? It all sounds like bad Ti. I've never heard such narrow-minded stereotyping from INFjs or ISFjs, plus I don't get the urge to laugh in their faces because their words -- even their very presence -- have an immediate appeal to my conscience. IME this has been quite true:
    Introverted the feeling type also possesses property to be adapted to the life mainly with the help of a feeling, but expressed in the introverted form. To comprehend people of this type is very difficult. [Junga] in “psychological types” he indicates that saying “calm waters are deep” it relates precisely to this type of people. They possess the highly differentiated system of values, but outwardly it they do not demonstrate, it acts on them from within. There, where outstanding events occur, introverted the feeling type it is possible frequently to discover on the second plan, as if introverted a feeling prompts to it: “this is actually important”. Developing peculiar silent loyalty and nothing explaining, they appear in those places, where it is possible to become the witnesses of important and valuable internal events and arkhetipicheskuju of constellations. Furthermore, they usually have a secret positive effect on their environment, establishing the standards of behavior. And although, being introvert, they do not speak out aloud, people control them, and thus the installation of standards is carried out. Introverted the feeling types, for example, frequently form the ethical foundation of group, without irritating others by reading sermons and moral manuals, — they they possess the such exact standards of moral values, that from them proceeds the secret emanation, which has a positive effect on those surrounding. In their presence it is necessary to behave correctly, because they possess the authentic standards of values, which always suggest respect, which force others to be held worthily. Them that differentiated introverted a feeling determines, what factor is properly important.
    I am also reminded of an argument between me and my mother:
    Mother: You shouldn't take showers in the mornings. Anyone who showers in the morning is an idiot.
    Me: Pfft, I can think of a few people who shower in the morning and aren't idiots.
    Mother: Don't you dare argue with me!
    Me: With all your untruths, it's taking every effort not to---
    Mother *pours soup on me*
    I'm pretty sure she's ISFj. I don't get the urge to laugh in her face. There is an earnestness there and a very conscientious woman underneath all of that stereotyping. Also, she seems to respond well to Te but not Ti. Me and my brother have Ti in spades. It does nothing to change her mind. Only my dad and my third aunt (ENTj) seem to be able to get her to see past it. I actually DID think she was ESFj for the longest time, but intertype relationships would have been way off. Granted, I need a disclaimer here that my mom has had psychological problems (mild schizophrenia and manic depression) for as long as I've known her, which made her very difficult to type and contribute to her paranoia about the entire world being evil. She's a good woman and has toughed it out through some terrible times.
    WHOA CREEPTAsTIc... your mom is like my mom


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    I feel for you. What part in particular do you see maternal similarities?
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Shees, I'm lucky then. My mother's ISFj but she'd never say anything like that, except probably that drugs are bad, and that pets are high manteinance. However, she has never had psychological problems, so that might be the difference.

    The Ne polr in many cases is about not believing in one's self and others abilities
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    The Ne polr in many cases is about not believing in one's self and others abilities
    Yes. Or at least not wanting to discuss that. A typical "painful subject".
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    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default PoLR and quadra identification

    Do people tend to devalue the quadras that value your own PoLR?

    For example, I'm an LII. My PoLR is I'm an alpha but I identify with delta as a close second. For me, agreement on is more important than . In other words, I tend to devalue and have more difficultly relating to the quadras that value my PoLR function. For some weird reason, I identify more with gamma than beta even though gamma is my opposing quadra. Maybe because two of the gamma types share my NT preferences?

    I know an ILE (PoLR ) who identifies best with alpha, then beta and not so good with delta. For him, agreement on is more important than . He has difficultly with the valuing quadras.

    I also know an ILI (PoLR ) who identifies best with gamma and delta.

    Is this just a coincidence, or do you think there is something to this?

    Could subtype play a role here?
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I think it has more to do with your upbringing. I think betas are great, my sense of humor is slanted more towards them. Explaining it in terms of socionics, I would attribute it to the fact that I like more than I hate .
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    Interesting.

    I was thinking that Judicious/Decisive was which adjacent quadra you aligned more with. Though, to be fair, I don't need to be as guarded around Betas, even if I don't "get" them or resonate on any deep level.

    EDIT

    Judicious/Decisive divides the irrational complementary pairs; so it puts how you see the world into two camps. Ne/Si and Ni/Se.

    Merry/Serious divides the rational complementary pairs; so it does the same for how you interact with other people. Fe doesn't mind being vulgar, that's all part of Fe being a communal, accumulating element (by virtue of being extraverted). Likewise, Te doesn't mind being direct (parallel for Merry types who might see Serious types as being quite rude, as I'm sure they feel quite the same about us ).

    Thanks, fear of sleep!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    I think it has more to do with your upbringing. I think betas are great, my sense of humor is slanted more towards them. Explaining it in terms of socionics, I would attribute it to the fact that I like more than I hate .
    Maybe. Everyone in my family is either alpha or delta and most of my friends as well. I know far more deltas and than betas so maybe I'm more used to them?
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    I prefer Beta irrationals and Delta irrationals.
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    Yea my relationships with betas are almost good enough to make me doubt my type. I had an SLE professor for Greek history and I loved the way he taught it. I got along with my dad (LSI) way better than I ever did with my mom (EII). I usually get along really well with LSEs at first, but I can't stand the way they joke around; I think they get way too personal. But then again I've had some really good EII and SLI friends too.
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    I would think that you would get along better with those that value your base.

    Rationals: Alpha/Beta Gamma/Delta
    Irrationals: Alpha/Delta Beta/Gamma

    But I guess it varies from person to person. Subtype probably plays a role too.
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    Usually it has to do with if that function is leading or not. Supervisors and conflictors can be pretty bad relations altogether, even if you like their behavior, its really the inner conflict inside that isn't good that you somehow have tolerance for, those little things you don't bother with that can add up to a lot. Then usually super ego and comparative (creative is your PoLR) aren't as bad.

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    I think this makes a good deal of sense, both theoretically and in my own experience. The PolR represents the most sensitive of all the functions, so an atmosphere which tends to over-emphasize that particular aspect of the information elements would no-doubt be more stressful Socionically than one that does not. That isn't to say one cannot _enjoy_ these environments, because there are still aspects within them that the individual values, but by and large I think they are more intimidating and stressful than one's other neighboring quadra.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Really for me its about temperament.

    I like/get along with Ep's and Ip's from any quadra really, although obviously I find the most in common/similar world view/ease of communication with Alpha p's followed by Beta/Delta p's followed by Gamma p's

    The types that get on my nerves are Te/Fi valuing rationals. ENTj's, ISFj's, ESTj's, and INFj's.
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    I often identify the most with Fps, in general. Then most Introverts, in general. I usually relate very little to most EXTxs and EXFjs. But I think that these sort of things often go beyond types.

    Psychologically I often feel the closest to most ESFps, ENFjs and INFps...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Really for me its about temperament.

    I like/get along with Ep's and Ip's from any quadra really, although obviously I find the most in common/similar world view/ease of communication with Alpha p's followed by Beta/Delta p's followed by Gamma p's

    The types that get on my nerves are Te/Fi valuing rationals. ENTj's, ISFj's, ESTj's, and INFj's.
    SAME (although I like ISFj>ISTp... it's the )
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I value Deltas because they're stable and I'm one. I value Gammas because they value , which is my base and is obviously valuable. I value Alphas because they value , which is a lot of fun to be around. I value Betas because...they're people.

    I think it's more about not valuing your valued functions than about valuing your polr.

    ESTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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