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Thread: ENTjs are most valued in western civilization?

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    Default ENTjs are most valued in western civilization?

    ENTj's are practical, have a sense of humour, are enthusiastic, energetic, inventive, can forsee danger, achieve results quickly, etc.

    What can't they do, that is worth mentioning?

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    They can't work for other people.
    -Slava


    What a great replacement for a nany

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    That sounds quite good

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    Is that a bad thing?

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    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
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    I agree (once again) that Bill Gates is ENTJ, and that his style has influenced Microsoft to large extent.

    But I disagree with the topic itself. ENTJ is probably a very much valued steretype in the American culture, but in other Western cultures it may have different meaning. In France (a country of the Alpha Quadra culture), for example, this type is rather ridiculed than admired.
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

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    Hiding Typhon's Avatar
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    Not trying to be rude but what exactly is an Alpha quadra cultrue?

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    And is there a Delta quadra culture?
    ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
    In touch with semireality.

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    Very true.

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    I think hat ESTJ are most valued in western an ISTJ most valued in eastern (like japan) civilisation.
    "Wenn der Deutsche in einen Satz taucht, dann hat man ihn die längste Zeit gesehen, bis er auf der anderen Seite des Ozeans wieder auftaucht mit seinem Verb im Mund." - Mark Twain

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    I always wondered why I despised of the media's depictions of French culture--it's Alpha! :wink:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro
    They "work to live" instead of "living to work" (how they view Americans) which leads to a more liesurely life (many businesses closing at noon for lunch and the fight to maintain the 35 hour work week).
    WWI kind of destroyed the capitalistic spirit in Europe, which brought in existentialism, which began in, not surprisingly, France. I would say that capitalism is primarily a Gamma institution, which fits very well with the Gamma culture of the U.S. No wonder the U.S. and France hate each other.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    I would have to say that eastern cultures, especially Japan, more resemble the ISTP type than ISTJ. This comes out especially in economic affairs: the Japanese hoard more money than any country in the world, and China isn't far behind. Ever deal with Asian businessmen?

    I think that the difference is hard to see because eastern cultures' innate conservatism looks like J to us, who associate perceiving with dependence on mood to complete work and judging with planning work ahead and completing it. It think the reason the Japanese are P is that they are always in a mood to do work, and so going with the rhythm of life as they see it simply means working. There is a difference between that and working despite what one may feel about it, which would be more characteristic of the J type.

    They do not see any value in order per se (as a J would); they simply use order (/workability/discipline,etc.) to make money (in the most efficient way possible) to satisfy their ISTP greed.

    If they were ISTJ's, they wouldn't need to rely on their famous rules of etiquette to govern their social situations; they would charmingly make small talk naturally. The bowing, etc., is a crutch to make up for the classic ISTP disdain for niceties.

    For other Asian cultures, the above is true to a lesser extent and perhaps not at all.

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    "They do not see any value in order per se (as a J would); they simply use order (/workability/discipline,etc.) to make money (in the most efficient way possible) to satisfy their ISTP greed. "

    Tell that to Confuscians, whom in a de facto sort of manner represent the majority of Japan and China's populace.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Hmm, he sounds like a troll, but he has a username.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Creepy-an ixtp@cafe

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    Such like discussions sound terribly irrelevant, and even are irritating.
    Japan has disgusting amounts of extroverts and this makes hell of introverts.

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    WWI kind of destroyed the capitalistic spirit in Europe, which brought in existentialism, which began in, not surprisingly, France.
    Existentialism is a world wide phenomenon and it is impossible to say when it began, much less where. Sure, if you want to call those who originated the term and tried to explain it in full detail as the “first” existentialists that may be fine in an academic sense but what about those whose ideas were so very similar but simply didn’t have the term then? What about Dostoyevsky, Nietzsche, etc… ?
    Bland skuggor rider en odjur.
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    Creepy-

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeonMonk
    And is there a Delta quadra culture?
    A don't know which quadra belongs to Hungary (does anybody know??), but according to my experiences our country is full of ENFp s!

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