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Thread: Why Can't/Don't INTjs Just Get Over it Already?

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    Default Why Can't/Don't INTjs Just Get Over it Already?

    Yeah. Why don't we? Or maybe it is just me. Individual sob story blow by blow details don't really matter, but when I've lost things that were really important to me, I spent a lot of time either utterly paralyzed or flopping about and gasping like a fish on the beach. Once the initial horror is over, it really takes me years to get over it.. I think everyone does this when something devastating enough happens, but it seems like others tend to move on in a reasonable amount of time, or maybe, like me, they are just incredibly good at hiding it. For an idea of how often, and what sort of events, I can think of 3 times this has happened to me. Once, was over a job. In the end, because I basically felt like a hollow shell, that one also cost me my relationship with the only man I have ever truly loved. I fell out of love with him, because my heart was shattered. I felt like the old me was dead. The other two, ill-considered relationships (to sum up in a word: burn). You would think that as rarely as I let someone into my heart that I would be more careful about who I choose. Basically, on the rare occasions when I have made myself vulnerable, and got burned, my recovery has been very slow.
    Female INTJ

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    You enjoy and feel justified in your sulking. Your identity is attached to being in pain, so you harbor it and make it grow. That is the primary matter at hand, and something everyone has to overcome

    From another angle, I can relate somewhat, in that, I have a clear idea of how things are to go, and how things are to transition. So if something major happens to disrupt that, it can be devastating. That is not uncommon for IJs. Neither is the "why do I suck so much" stage for IJs, when you are looking for a dynamic, particularly your duel, to make things better for you. But in no way are you justified to dwell in your own self pity. You can find all the reasoning you want, but look what happened - it cost you a relationship you valued. Does that mean that because you lost your job, it was inevitable that your relationship would fail? No. Does that mean that you should feel bad about it now, because I spoke of it like this in this post? Absolutely not.

    INTjs can get wrapped up in feelings and let them get carried away in them, particularly because they are poor at dealing with emotions. Nevertheless, it is advised to be wary of your indulgences.

    somewhat aside: Look at my GD thread about hidden agenda, and how I was replied to there.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: Why Can't/Don't INTJs Just Get Over it Already?

    Because they're analysts and they will analyze until no portion is left uncontemplated and that's just their way.


    lefty
    enfj 4w5

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    You enjoy and feel justified in your sulking. Your identity is attached to being in pain, so you harbor it and make it grow. That is the primary matter at hand, and something everyone has to overcome.
    Truf.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    it might have something to do with IJ temperament. the grudge holding thing.

    thing is, grudges are kinda like piss runnin down your leg...

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    it might have something to do with IJ temperament. the grudge holding thing.

    thing is, grudges are kinda like piss runnin down your leg...
    Everyone knows INTjs are anally retentive - they may hold grudges, but they are not liable to have piss running down their legs, are they not?
    EII-Ne
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    kind of like piss runnin down your leg. as in self defeating. lol

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    so true... grudges eat your soul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    kind of like piss runnin down your leg. as in self defeating. lol
    I'm not sure I'm strong enough to be self-defeating...


    ^ oh, hang on, I'm even doing it in my sleep!
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    Default Re: Why Can't/Don't INTJs Just Get Over it Already?

    INTJs are looking for that ESFJ socializer and it can be difficult to make sense out of what happens without the grounded guidance of an guardian logistical socizlier to confirm what is normal.

    They could point out ways that what happend is not your fault, the fault that was held by others in the situation, and also match your experiences with the normal course of life.

    I have an INTJ friend who has found therapy to be most helpful if you can find the right one.


    all the best,

    lefty
    ENFJ 4w5

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    You know what else is the mastermind wnats to have factored in all possabilities and as the contingency planner the thing is they can't always predict what kind of crisis will befall them. And that's ok. That's normal in life. That's a part of growing. My intj friend has always found spirituality to be somewhat helpful. Remember you are benefited by the Healer so in times where you are too hard on yourself I recommend seeking out all forms spiritual thought, healthy exercise, naturalism etc and give yourself a break. There are those INTJs are strong enough to be self defeating and really it shouldn't happen. INTJs are good people and if you feel you haven't been good or whatever then rectify it or if you feel like youve been done wrong then seek healing an seek to normalize and socialize those experiences.

    bad relationships, with all the INTJs good intention and powerful capacity to act as a mate is often a case of pearls before swine. And occupationally...losing a job etc its one of those things that happens in life and through adversity we find new options opened up to us.

    be well,

    lefty

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    UDP I looked for, and failed to find the thread/posts you were talking about. Lefty: heh, if I go to enough therapy will I stop being an INTJ? *g*
    Female INTJ

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    I think UDP may have been talking about this thread 'Embracing Hidden Agenda' ?:

    http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12198
    EII-Ne
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    I believe that is what I was referring to.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    The mention of 'estimative' function in the 'Embracing Hidden Agenda' thread was very, very confusing because it is not mentioned at all in the opening post's reference site (socionics.us). But I finally found the 6th function referred to this way on another site (it seems to have been removed from the socionics.us site). As well, when I looked at where in an INTJ's lineup it seems to be 5th, not 6th, and that makes it all the more confusing - although apparently both of these are 'blind' areas we cannot see without assistance.
    Female INTJ

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    if you see this:


    it might be natural to think is the INTjs fifth function. In actually fact, from left to right it goes: 1+2, 4+3, 6+5 & 7+8. (It's just the way it is ).
    EII-Ne
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    Ah, thank you... I truly never would have guessed that and don't see it mentioned. In fact, all of the sites seem to assume a certain level of prior knowledge when it comes to these 'functions' and a lot of cross-referencing is required to figure out what's what. They do not spell it out. This stuff seems a bit... messy, at least on the surface. Having said that, it looks like for some reason they wanted to line up those symbols in the 'pretty' way they are in your box above, and to do that, they messed with the numbers. Bleh.
    Female INTJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by James
    UDP I looked for, and failed to find the thread/posts you were talking about. Lefty: heh, if I go to enough therapy will I stop being an INTJ? *g*

    you might become an intj that learns to process information without it having to become self destructive and apocalyptic.


    lefty
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    Heh, ouch!
    Female INTJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    if you see this:


    it might be natural to think is the INTjs fifth function. In actually fact, from left to right it goes: 1+2, 4+3, 6+5 & 7+8. (It's just the way it is ).
    i realized possibly why is that this arranges the type functions by the right and left brain

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    intj's can't get over things because they kinda like to plod through, they analyze and hold grudges. an intj in my family has decided at age 41 that all women are feminist bitches and that the entire planet has become deluded with feminist ideas. his personal mission is to tell everybody how the entire planet has become positively biased toward the feminine. and he wonders how it is that he can't maintain a relationship. so his grudge is against all women. if he looked at himself then he would see that he is the problem not women. (nothing against intj's in general though, just him :wink: )

    but you know what? no one gets over important losses in less than a year. that's just how much time it takes. how much they show that is another question, but people really are not over significant losses in less than a year.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    intj's can't get over things because they kinda like to plod through, they analyze and hold grudges. an intj in my family has decided at age 41 that all women are feminist bitches and that the entire planet has become deluded with feminist ideas. his personal mission is to tell everybody how the entire planet has become positively biased toward the feminine. and he wonders how it is that he can't maintain a relationship. so his grudge is against all women. if he looked at himself then he would see that he is the problem not women. (nothing against intj's in general though, just him :wink: )

    but you know what? no one gets over important losses in less than a year. that's just how much time it takes. how much they show that is another question, but people really are not over significant losses in less than a year.
    i'm learning from experience that alphas are wild. theyre wild at hear....like a bad david lynch movie.

    lefty
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    wild at heart.

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    > edit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    Quote Originally Posted by lefty
    wild at heart.
    Grrrrrrrrowl.

    lol, why did I just think of Whitney Houston doing that song from "The Bodyguard"


    "AND IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII...."

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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka
    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    Quote Originally Posted by lefty
    wild at heart.
    Grrrrrrrrowl.

    lol, why did I just think of Whitney Houston doing that song from "The Bodyguard"


    "AND IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII...."
    literal lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty
    wild at heart.
    wild at heart like feral children, eh? lol

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by lefty
    wild at heart.
    wild at heart like feral children, eh? lol
    i have a theory, not well developed, that alphas are childlike, but when aranging their lives resemble gammas. When living their lives they're like the adults....they know whats going on, they've got the master plan, they make shit happen, they travel and get married and all that happy shit.

    and betas are like teenagers, but when arranging their lives are peaceful, or peace-seeking, wise, and resembling old age.

    and that then it goes that gammas are full of their great innovative concepts in design and i dunno ... business and war (booo) and crap like that, but they want to be powerful so they ultimately obtain, in the arrangement of their lives, status which resmble alpha, they become powerful in the pack.

    and then deltas with all their wisdom, can be so very cliquish like teenagers.

    i developed another theory based on something i read in a little book about politics that you can also break the quadras down by the arrangment of the functions of : power seeking, non-political, political, and powerful. some arrangement of each in each quadra member. i think you could probabl say alpaha: powerful, beta: power seeking, Gamma: political, & Gamma: non-political. I have used, in my mind, some arrangement of the four within each quadra to represent kind of type functions. to help me understand people i work with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    > edit
    what he said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by lefty
    wild at heart.
    wild at heart like feral children, eh? lol
    i have a theory, not well developed, that alphas are childlike, but when aranging their lives resemble gammas. When living their lives they're like the adults....they know whats going on, they've got the master plan, they make shit happen, they travel and get married and all that happy shit.

    and betas are like teenagers, but when arranging their lives are peaceful, or peace-seeking, wise, and resembling old age.

    and that then it goes that gammas are full of their great innovative concepts in design and i dunno ... business and war (booo) and crap like that, but they want to be powerful so they ultimately obtain, in the arrangement of their lives, status which resmble alpha, they become powerful in the pack.

    and then deltas with all their wisdom, can be so very cliquish like teenagers.

    i developed another theory based on something i read in a little book about politics that you can also break the quadras down by the arrangment of the functions of : power seeking, non-political, political, and powerful. some arrangement of each in each quadra member. i think you could probabl say alpaha: powerful, beta: power seeking, Gamma: political, & Gamma: non-political. I have used, in my mind, some arrangement of the four within each quadra to represent kind of type functions. to help me understand people i work with.
    these are some interesting ideas. so the quadras sort of compensate for the limitations of their strengths with the way they arrange their lives, kind of like a balance or something. i can see some face validity here - my teenager like 48 year old "boyfriend" alternates between his teenager behavior and "elderly" behavior, very peaceful and very at home when at home.

    i would say that alpha is power seeking though and beta is powerful. gamma definitely political and delta non-political?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Delta is probably the MOST political Quadra, if you ask me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Delta is probably the MOST political Quadra, if you ask me.
    do you really think so? why? cuz they vote? hahaha

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Well, Aristocacy with Fi and Te just seems like a recipe for "caring" and having an opinion about everything.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Delta is probably the MOST political Quadra, if you ask me.
    i had tended to think of alphas as mentally powerful, taking in formation by power seeking, and arranging their lives politically. where betas are power seeking, taking in information politically, and arranging their lives to be non-political. whereas gammas are political mentally, taking in information through power seeking, and arranging their lives non-politically. Deltas then being mentally non-political, taking in information politically, and arranging their lives by power seeking.

    ok all this helps me to realize, though, that in socionics there are four functions and also that i've laid four out here and only imply that there are three in each. so it may not be complete. but another way of conceptualizing the types or the quadras.

    also im not really sure what gamma and delta mean in a bigger picture sense. you can read about alpha and beta wolves, but are there gamma and delta wolves, too? or do gamma and delta represent coming out of th woods, so to speak. or is it the other way around are the alphas and betas coming out of the woods. anyway, messy. and maybe its all related to space stuff i dont know.

    you start to see things differently, though, yeah, when you see that in their own way gammas are alphas in the new social stucture and deltas are betas, possibly? you start to view the quadras as dual even as i believe humans in themselves are dual.

    anyway it is what it is and its weird and interesting to see people speculating about it.

    lefty ...hisses at the crowd ...extends claws etc oh fuck it...takes a cat nap...like a teenager.
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    i would say that alpha is power seeking though and beta is powerful. gamma definitely political and delta non-political?[/quote]

    or takes a nap like a geezer im not sure which.


    lol.


    ok.

    EDIT!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Well, Aristocacy with Fi and Te just seems like a recipe for "caring" and having an opinion about everything.
    don't even get me started on delta. my whole family is delta and....well let's just say i prefer beta, :-)

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Alpha is power-seeking? You don't know many Alphas.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Well, Aristocacy with Fi and Te just seems like a recipe for "caring" and having an opinion about everything.

    ahh...but an aristocracy is not a democracy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Alpha is power-seeking? You don't know many Alphas.

    the idea was, and its all debateable, is that they taken in information through power seeking, the secondary function. taking in information.


    so an inventor doesn't go around being like ....i shall rule the world!!! but he does walk around being mentally powerful, and looking around and saying ...wait if i did this it would create that which people could utilize in this way. which sort of is power seeking behavior. and because they are so well formed as people and so on alphas are then political with their time...i.e. in how they arrange their lives ... they can't alway be social, not to the extent that gammas are social, because their contributions are not so much based in networking in a social sense. again im saying also as i layed it out may be in complete so am not offering a perfect theory. im an expressive enfj and an E and we find hard, they say, and i agree, to know what they think until they express it.


    lefty
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    I think you have Gamma and Alpha switched around completely.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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