What do you do when you hurt an INTj's feelings?

[Joy]

I didn't think such a thing was possible!

But I hurt my husband's feelings last night, on his birthday of all days! He said to me, "I'm sorry for whatever I did to make you this upset with me," and he looked like he was about to cry! I've never seen him with that look on his face. Then when I got back from the doctor today he was awake and he was just sitting at his desk with that look on his face again. He didn't even have EQ2 on! He's still just as upset and I don't know what to do.

Does anyone have any ideas???

[implied]

asdf

[Joy]

LOL, I did that... well, except the part about the cake... He wouldn't eat it now anyways. I made him pizza and he wouldn't eat it. He's just curled up on the couch. I wish I could remember what I said!

Yes, it does seem that we're always making people cry. I don't get it.

[Joy]

he should be over it in about a day.

I think so too, but I feel SOOOOOO bad about this! He said it's BY FAR the meanest thing I've ever done. I just want to fix it!

[Joy]

what did you do? forget his birthday?

lol, hey I remembered it at 9 pm the night before... so no...

apologize (sincerely)

done

distract him by going out and doing something fun

Surely you jest... he doesn't do things like... do thing or go places

top it off with a "you are important to me because x, y, and z"

done

[Joy]

With him it's beyond that... we moved to a new city in February, and he has LITERALLY not been on a single road except the one that takes him to work! It's not something that could be solved by whining at him, trust me.

[Joy]

ah well he will learn how to do it eventually. in the meantime he will have these little melodramatic periods ( ). try to make sure he at least gets good sleep and doesn't stay up till 5 am every night playing games or whatnot

THe thing is, he's the LEAST emotional person I know. He NEVER gets upset like this. I just went up by him and he's just laying on the couch. He hasn't even touched EQ2 all day!

I feel horrible and there's nothing I can do. He has depressed times here and there, but it's never because of anyone thing in particular like this, and it's never been because of me. I can't believe I was such a bitch to him on his birthday.

[Joy]

lol, and I don't hassle him about sleep... it's all I can do to make sure he's eating enough!

[P-chan]

what did you do? forget his birthday?

To me, my birthday is just another day (unless it's an age where I gain the right to do something).

With him it's beyond that... we moved to a new city in February, and he has LITERALLY not been on a single road except the one that takes him to work!

Sounds like me. I don't really like participating in the real world most of the time...

[Cone]

what did you do? forget his birthday?

To me, my birthday is just another day.

[discojoe]

Haha. Cone the angst machine.

In response to Joy's question: You do to them what you do to anyone whose feelings have been hurt: You kick them in the throat.

[Angel von Himmel]

What the heck did you do?

I mean, I never thought it was possible to hurt an INTjs feelings, those guys have such a resilient tolerance to pain it is almost mindboggling. I think they get it from all of those RPGs they play.

I use to tease my old INTj roommate about being passive ... he would play these really odd RPGS like all day all the time and then wonder why the heck he does not understand women. He probably thinks that requires casting some spell or putting on some sort of magic boots or something. Though, he usually ends up just using his boots of escaping when he actually DOES have to deal with the womenfolk ... poor guy.

Just entice him with some video game or something, he will get distracted and forget all about it hopefully.

[Waddlesworth]

maybe he knows you're into socionics. talking about duality alot with him? could be that he thinks he isnt good enough for you or that you are not satisfied with him anymore and want a man that knows how to feel good?

i could see how he could misconstrue your interest in socionics.

[Angel von Himmel]

maybe he knows you're into socionics. talking about duality alot with him? could be that he thinks he isnt good enough for you or that you are not satisfied with him anymore and want a man that knows how to feel good?

i could see how he could misconstrue your interest in socionics.

I think I know the reason, but I am mostly using to make a logical deduction and it is a personal matter from last night that I know about. I do not think that is the case, waddles.

[Kim]

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[Waddlesworth]

I think I know the reason, but I am mostly using to make a logical deduction and it is a personal matter from last night that I know about. I do not think that is the case, waddles.

yuh huh?

[taz]

Well I don't know how to make an INTJ feel better when in a hurt feeling. What I did when my INTJ friend is in a bad mood. I usually make him laugh either annoying him or make a fool of my self to make him laugh.

[Joy]

Okay, this is the deal...

Josh has been depressed lately. We used to live in the small town that he grew up in. I waitressed and bartended and was very very depressed and wondered what I wanted out of life. Aside from occasional issues of not getting as much attention as I wanted from him, the relationship was pretty good. Then I started taking Wellbutrin and fog lifted. I settled on a long term goal- to become a real estate empress. I started learning all I could about real estate and looking at properties on my days off.

Josh worked as a stocker at a garden center. It was crappy work, but his best friend worked there with him so it wasn't too bad. On his off hours he pretty much just did the MMORPG thing, but at the time his friend lived with us for part of the time and was around a lot when he wasn't living with us. There were often people over.

When our lease was up I didn't want to sign on for another year because I was going to be buying a property.The landlord did not want to negotiate a month to month lease, so we needed to move. Still not having found a place to buy, we moved in with my parents. Josh DID NOT want to , but we didn't have many other options, so we did. It was only supoosed to be for a couple months at the most, but my search for a property took longer than I wanted it to and we ended up staying there for 8 months. He worked 2 jobs the whole time in order to not be at home. He saved up a little bit of money and there were a few things he wanted to buy.

I, however, was not doing well... I was taking Adderall and was a huge mess. I had been fired from my job and was living off my tax return. I was working on my home inspection correspondence course, and was not doing very well physically. I still didn't realize it was because of the Adderall...

Once we moved to the city and my funds were depleted, Josh's funds quickly became depleted as well. I finally quit taking Adderall and began to slowly feel better. Josh was not doing well though. His friends rarely came to see him, and he had stopped caring about work, showing up several hours late everyday. I finally got a job (a great job!) and was doing much better physically. Josh was still depressed though.

That brings us to wear we are now. Josh's birthday was on Saturday. I got drunk and behaved very obnoxiously and said some very mean things to him (which I don't even remember). The next day, Sunday, he sat/layed around all day. He didn't even go online once! He ate a couple pieces of pizza but when I made him some sandwhiches later he wouldn't eat those.

When he finally told me why he was so upset, he said, "You know I haven' been doing well lately, Joy. I feel like I don't have anything, and that I don't have anything to look forward to. When you did that I really felt like I have absolutely nothing."

When I had him go to the doctor months ago to find out why he never had any energy at all, the doctor did some tests to rule out some things and then said that Josh is depressed and gave him a bunch of Lexapro samples. Josh won't take them though... he says, "What's the point?" I understand how he feels. I've been there. And there is nothing I can do if he won't take meds or even supplements.

[Kim]

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[Joy]

lol, it's okay. It's important to understand that this guy is beyond your typical INTj... he also has Asperger's Syndrome. He doesn't really depend on me for a sense of purpose... he just generally doesn't need a sense of purpose. I think that's part of the problem. I asked him last night how things are different than they were two years ago (he wasn't dperessed then), and he said, "It's two years later..."

I think he's beginning to feel frustrated with himself for never doing anything, but he wouldn't know where to start even if he did decide to do something with himself.

I don't think I'm enabling him because I don't protect him from natural consequences. Except for the recent period that I wrote about, I've always had more money than him. Some of the time he wasn't working. We kept separate finances though. No matter how much I had left after paying my half or how little he had left after paying his half, we didn't combine finances. I wouldn't have minded buying him stuf he wanted, but then what reason would he have for earning more? If he wants to have sepending money, than he can get a better paying job (which shouldn't be an issue for him except that he NEVER does that kind of thing... every job he's had has been set up through a friend or family member).

I know that you were talking about more than just money.... see, our relationship is founded onnot giving eachother a hard time about stuff. I don't bother him about never doing anything, and he doesn't bother me about doing as I please. It has worked out quite nicely for the most part.

[Kim]

I know that you were talking about more than just money.... see, our relationship is founded onnot giving eachother a hard time about stuff. I don't bother him about never doing anything, and he doesn't bother me about doing as I please. It has worked out quite nicely for the most part.

We certainly have different expectations from relationships. :wink:
Good luck with getting over this incident.

[discojoe]

There seems to be a problem with INTjs not knowing how to accomplish things beyond what is logically necesary to survive. They still have the desire to accomplish things, but their have overridden it as illogical, so they then begin to harbor misery which grows over time.

I suggest taking on the role of a senser. Try to act ESFj maybe. Be really incouraging and sort of nitpicky. Make sure he's grooming himself properly, dressing in clean clothes. Be kind of pushy. Find practical things he can strive for to accomplish some of his goals and make arrangements for him to start somewhere. This may be a lot of work, but if you're married with children it shouldn't be too much.

[P-chan]

There seems to be a problem with INTjs not knowing how to accomplish things beyond what is logically necesary to survive. They still have the desire to accomplish things, but their have overridden it as illogical, so they then begin to harbor misery which grows over time.

I suggest taking on the role of a senser. Try to act ESFj maybe. Be really incouraging and sort of nitpicky. Make sure he's grooming himself properly, dressing in clean clothes. Be kind of pushy. Find practical things he can strive for to accomplish some of his goals and make arrangements for him to start somewhere. This may be a lot of work, but if you're married with children it shouldn't be too much.

As an INTJ, I find that suggestion to be kind of scary myself. I don't like people nagging me to do things that I don't want to do, that they think are good for me in their opinion.

[discojoe]

There seems to be a problem with INTjs not knowing how to accomplish things beyond what is logically necesary to survive. They still have the desire to accomplish things, but their have overridden it as illogical, so they then begin to harbor misery which grows over time.

I suggest taking on the role of a senser. Try to act ESFj maybe. Be really incouraging and sort of nitpicky. Make sure he's grooming himself properly, dressing in clean clothes. Be kind of pushy. Find practical things he can strive for to accomplish some of his goals and make arrangements for him to start somewhere. This may be a lot of work, but if you're married with children it shouldn't be too much.

As an INTJ, I find that suggestion to be kind of scary myself. I don't like people nagging me to do things that I don't want to do, that they think are good for me in their opinion.

Well if it were your wife doing it, and she had your best interests at heart, and you were depressed all the time anyway, I think you could adapt.

[Kim]

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[discojoe]

Trust me. I know how to deal with INTjs.

[Angel von Himmel]

What the heck did you do?

I mean, I never thought it was possible to hurt an INTjs feelings, those guys have such a resilient tolerance to pain it is almost mindboggling. I think they get it from all of those RPGs they play.

Just entice him with some video game or something, he will get distracted and forget all about it hopefully.

Someone they love and trust can totally hurt an INTj's feeling and they probably hurt more intensely than most other types.

Maybe, I have never had an intimate relationship with an INTj ... I get along with the INTjs I already know, but I have never really hurt any of their feelings so maybe so.

[Joy]

It seems that P-chan has the best understanding of Josh's feelings and Kim has the best understanding of mine.

I just wrote a long post and lost my internet connection when I tried posting it, and the post is gone... grrrr.....

[Joy]

He's quite depressed. There is absolutely no way that I could talk him into anything social right now, nor would I try. In the past my attempts to get him out have not gone well... he ends up just sitting there. BUT inviting people who he likes over has been successful in the past.

[Joy]

He doesn't worry that I'll leave him. He's the least insecure person I've known... he couldn't get jealous or clingy if he tried. That was one of the main reasons for the attraction.

As far as him worryin gabout how I'm accomplishing things and he's not... he's told me that my enterprising spirit is one of the most unattractive things about me.

It was sorta wierd that when I asked him about how now is any different than two years ago, he said, "It's two years later." He's never had any goals or desires. What could he have possibly have wanted to happen in these two years if he never wanted anything to begin with?

[Angel von Himmel]

Well if it were your wife doing it, and she had your best interests at heart, and you were depressed all the time anyway, I think you could adapt.

i think you have hit the nail on the head. also i can vouch that discojoe's approach with intjs works. i have had two entp friends who have interacted with me like he does in the "fun for the whole family thread" and have as a result become more extraverted generally. we need to be pushed into social activity but in a fun, humorous, and caring way

I treated my old INTj roommate the same way as discojoe ... we got along great.

[Joy]

I think that those suggestions could work if he wasn't depressed, but there's a fine line between accepting him for who he is and encouraging him to be all be can be. I think I generally do a pretty good job.

Right now I am just extremely frustrated that there's nothing I can do to fix the mess I made. I'm feeling pretty down about this whole situation, and that's the last thing we need! I'm sure I'll feel better tomorrow. Plus part of the reason I'm not in a great mood is because my damn sprained ankle is sore and I can't walk around much.

[Kim]

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[Joy]

In all honesty, I do take care of him in a lot of ways. He couldn't live alone... someone has to do things like set up doctor appointments (he has Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome) and make sure he has auto insurance and health insurance and that bills get sent out and all of the other things that life demands of us.

He lives in his mind. The relationship works because he provides intellectual stimulation that I can't get from most people and he has a lot of the same core values as me and I can totally be myself around him and he understand what I'm talking about and doesn't call me cold. I've often said that being with him is the closest I can get to not being with someone and yet still be with someone. And the sex is good.

[Joy]

LOL, who wants to call me an F now?

[universal]

Right now I am just extremely frustrated that there's nothing I can do to fix the mess I made. I'm feeling pretty down about this whole situation, and that's the last thing we need!

You don't have to fix everything. You know, Josh should realize just how lucky he is with you. Perhaps you never asked yourself if he realizes this or what other INTj might go trough on their own. He is a lucky guy and he better know exactly that, or else he sounds more like a spoiled INTj to me. He can be depressed all he want's but you should not think you are the source of that, or that you are at the source of everything for that matter. Set some healthy boundries for yourself, you know very well you care for the guy, there can be no wrong in that! Your caring nature shines through allot, you could simply ask him if his depression has got anything to do with you or the relation or direction. Because if it has not, tell me, should you worry about it all then? There is nothing going on besides him wasting energy internally. Really, people can only help themselves sometimes. Setting bounderies might get him out of the shelf a bit. This Josh guy needs a push, I mean what hell, he is being served like crazy and what the hell is he doing?

I think it takes much courage to be in a relationship like yours and he is a truly lucky guy. I couldn't do it. I would need to know that there is some effort on the other side, too.

I think she better know there is some effort on his site too.

[Joy]

Wow, that's really sweet. Honestly, when I read it I realized that this is the same advice I'd give if someone else posted this thread. I probably also would have mentioned that it is physically impossible to change another person. People do whatever they are motivated to do, so all we can do is change the external motivation. Another big thing I would have stressed is that people generally behave exactly the way you expect them to behave. Treat him like the person you want him to be.

I find it worth pointing out, however, that he's NOT a pouty little INTj boy. Usually he's very emotionally desensitized and it's VERY hard to upset him, much less actually hurt his feelings. But in talking to my brother, who was there during my litttle drunken verbal rampage, I was very mean. I messed up bad! Things are pretty mucch okay now. He's still depressed, but no more so than before his birthday.

[Joy]

Epiphany: I desire to be with someone who is unemotional because I fear losing control over my own emotions.

[cjcoldmine]

Joy, I can understand you on a surface level. But when I think about your epiphany a little bit, I'm a little confused. How does being with someone who is unemotional help you to not lose control over your emotions? It's an honest question, I promise. And it sounds like a powerful realization for you.

[Megan]

There seems to be a grand mission to lighten up and make INTjs more extroverted by some people. I just keep wondering if any INTj has actually asked for this type of "assistance". If I was an INTj, I think I would getting annoyed and perhaps even offended now. The whole thing makes it seem that INTjs are broken and need fixing.

?Good intentions