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Thread: Origin Of Type

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    Default Origin Of Type

    What is your opinion on type coming from environmental factors? Or do you, like many students of the Enneagram, believe that type is inherent; we are born with a type? Are they independent of each other or in some way linked?

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    Briefly, the interplay of both inherent material and environmental interaction lead to the 'type' of someone. In my opinion when you are born your functions are both undeveloped and undifferentiated. As you grow older, your get used to using your (self), your mind, in certain ways, and develop functional preferences. I do not think it is directly related to parents or genetics, although I have never seen anything that would prove or contradict a correlation between the types of parents and their offspring.

    This article is also useful:

    [web:3a3bb54ffc]http://www.socionics.us/practice/ego.shtml[/web:3a3bb54ffc]
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I personally consider type to be something you're born with, although I don't have any solid facts or reasoning to support that belief.
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    Interesting, UDP.

    Parts of it reminded me of Enneagram types' fixations. Here is a good example of a cp6 or a 3: "a hunter who keeps showing how well he can throw his spear without actually using it to hunt" and a good picture of the 5 when average: "someone who uses his mental powers to amass knowledge without using it to address real problems in the world".

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLauritson
    I personally consider type to be something you're born with, although I don't have any solid facts or reasoning to support that belief.
    I agree. V.I. is probably the strongest argument for it, but to my knowledge there is also nothing that suggests that your type is not inborn. My belief that your type is 100 % inborn is so strong that I would almost see it as some kind of refutation of Socionics, if that is not the case. Socionics is a part of biology and neuroscience, in my opinion.

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    I could accept that.


    It seems to be a matter of when and how the functional preferences are born. Is a baby instilled with preferences, like its fingerprint? If so, how severe are they, how malleable? Is there any affect with the external world that induces change?


    I know, consciously, I can become aware of and focus on functions ( now that I know how to consider them). But I whether or not you can consciously change your psychological function ordering is unknown.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Some aspects of type are manifestations of genetic influence and prenatal conditioning. Others are patterns of thought and conditioned response to certain stimuli that evolve in response to the environment. From what I've observed, temperament seems to emerge earliest. After that, quadra preferences. The evolution of those aspect of personalty which do not change seems to finalize around the time one's language skills fully develop.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    It seems somewhat like a video game character creation process, where you initially select the "caste" or "job" that character has, which makes the structure of the functions more permanent. You can increase your Se and Fe and all the other functions as you desire, but they are still within the sturcture of your original functional ordering.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I think type is inborn because I've seen enough kids grow from babyhood to teen and it's amazing how much of their personalities you can see when they're still babies.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I think type is inborn because I've seen enough kids grow from babyhood to teen and it's amazing how much of their personalities you can see when they're still babies.
    i was just about to say the exact same thing.

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    although it certainly can be inborn.

    it musn't be mistaken that it isn't inheret from parents.

    jung and socionics couldn't find any evidence whatsoever that type is genetic.

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    I don't think it's genetic because I don't see any strong patterns within families. At least I don't personally see anything that would suggest to me that it is genetic.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    the genome coding for personality must be infinitely complex, and combinations of two highly complex personalities allows for at least 16 types to manifest randomly. Ah, all of this is conjecture. We have no facts! How can I say that ESFps don't have ESFp children and know? I can't.

    Here are some interesting questions:

    Types and Quadras - do they share more similar genetic nuances? The external manifestations would say yes. ENTp, ISFp, INTj, and ESFj all share a certain facial expression that is related to physical manifestation and not solely psychological processing.

    If we count type as genetic then won't certain bodytypes, sizes, and static facial features be inheritly linked to type? This question presumes that the genome for personality is somehow linked with the expression of bodytypes, sizes, and static facial features. I'm not sure it is because genetics is a subject of which I only have surface knowledge.

    I'll think of more later!
    asd

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    well as far as my own experience goes, it's like slacker moms sais, there is no genetic evidence visible at first glance.

    i've seen the weirdest combinations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi
    I think the evidence for a strong hereditary component is quite strong.
    It's overwhelming.

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    I agree with diamond8 and Slacker Mom's observations regarding small children; I have no children of my own (that I know of), but I spent many hours observing the two sons of an INFj m - ESTj f couple, ages between 1 and 3, and at least the temperament was already very clear. If not inborn, it's definitely "fixed" at a very early age.

    I don't doubt that it's at least in part hereditary, but at least from the cases I know it's difficult to see how exactly that would work. In my own family, both parents Alpha SF, with one ENTp and one ENTj son.

    On the other hand, genetics is indeed sometimes difficult to spot -- again in my own family, not only am I the only Gamma, but also the only one to have 0 type blood (A for all the rest), blue eyes (brown for all the rest) and light hair (dark for all the rest). My father was ISFp, but those who knew his father (he died before I was born) say that he and I were very similar, and his life story suggests ENTj. On the other hand, my grandfather, my father, my brother and I share many facial features, very obviously.

    Does it all mean anything? Perhaps only that it's possible that types are largely hereditary, but the precise combination of recessive and dominant genes may be very complicated.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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